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08/06/2011 10:21:28 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by MargaretN:
I am always amazed how Americans cannot see the problem with their country. To me it is like the fall of the Roman Empire. Once almighty then totally gone. Same as the British Empire. I agree the S&P and other rating systems are unimportant, just a small measure of a symptom. America has now not just economic but also political crisis at its core. I don't believe it can go away. The poverty in the USA is shocking. The political system is a circus. I just can't believe the Americans cannot see the problem. Unfortunately since the American consumption has driven the world economy for most of the 20th century the rest of the world will suffer from America's fall. Let's just hope that China can replace America as the world's biggest superpower and consumer. Sorry that it sounds so pessimistic but I no longer believe that Americans can fix the problem with their country. The events of the past few years have proven so.
I am sure I will be blasted for saying this. But as an outside observer directly affected by America's crisis by having lost a lot of our retirement money since 2008 I believe I have the right to say this. To our American friends - wake up and see that you are poor and driven by a totally ineffective political system. It is a crisis in which only the few rich people will win, everybody else will lose, including most people of Australia (and Europe).
Ha! So sad. I am expecting a lot of denial in response. That's the American Way. |
Interesting... You hope that the next great superpower is ruled by a government that silences opposition by any means possible? Careful what you wish for... Tibet might think you foolish. Will the USA ever be what it once was? Depends on what you are talking about. Will we improve our political situation? Likely. We go through these mod swings every so often. Will we ever be the leading economic powerhouse we once were? Doubtful. The prosperity of the fifties and sixties will likely not be repeated. That prosperity came partly from rebuilding a shattered Europe and Asia, and from a lack of competition from them as they rebuilt. The conditions are different now, and will never be repeated again. |
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08/06/2011 10:39:50 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by ambaker:
Interesting... You hope that the next great superpower is ruled by a government that silences opposition by any means possible? |
The reality is that China already is the superpower whether we wish for it or not. I do not approve of any form of regime. I had first hand experience with it and know what oppression means in practice. I know very well what it is like being afraid to say anything against those in power. So I do not approve of China in political terms. But my hope is that in economic terms China saves the world economy as I doubt America can do it. |
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08/06/2011 10:47:51 PM · #28 |
| On that we agree. America's balance of payments has been negative for too long, and we no longer have the resources to buy the rest of the world into prosperity. No economy can buy more than it sells endlessly. China has the reserves to do it for a period of time, should they be willing. However, their inclination this far has even to be a merchant rather than a customer. Time will tell... |
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08/06/2011 10:57:07 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Neat:
All these comments are very interesting, but is anyone noticing Europe, especially Germany !
Are the Americans aware of the power shift thats happening around the globe. |
There is no power-shift. America IS the last great super power, and will remain so. It is the backs of the Americans in which the world is held up. As I said before, the world should pray for our success, because their success depends on it. |
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08/06/2011 11:42:21 PM · #30 |
Margaret: many of us Americans can and do see the problem.
Some of the difficulty is that we disagree on how to fix it.
Please don't assume that 300 million people are all the same, have all the same attitudes, etc. |
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08/07/2011 12:41:13 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
Some of the difficulty is that we disagree on how to fix it. |
That's the very core of the problem :) |
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08/07/2011 01:18:49 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by stupidcat:
Remember why we broke away from the Mother country to begin with? Taxation without representation. |
It's fascinating to me how history compares to the common understanding of history (and in part to what is taught)..... In fact tax without representation occurs for all LEGAL migrants to the US (as well as obviously the illegal ones). If it was really about that then legal immigrants would NOT be subject to that.
To the larger topics... The credit rating was clearly not an off/on and has been happening for a log time... accelerating over the last decade granted. A lot of bad stuff has been allowed in the system and there are no longer a lot of the stops there once was.... and that's a mistake IMO.
Is the US still a "superpower"... setting aside exactly what that might mean - yeah obviously. However - there is always a fall to superpowers - is it the time for the US... I have no clue and neither does anyone else. It's been going down hill by some measures for some time.... and for other measures it's just fine - depends what you count (how is that for deep? :-) ) |
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08/07/2011 04:08:35 AM · #33 |
| If the downfall happens, I dont think it will happen like it has throughout history. Past empires fell in one fell swoop, but I think today it would be a slow decline. |
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08/07/2011 04:33:33 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by stupidcat:
Originally posted by Neat:
All these comments are very interesting, but is anyone noticing Europe, especially Germany !
Are the Americans aware of the power shift thats happening around the globe. |
There is no power-shift. America IS the last great super power, and will remain so. It is the backs of the Americans in which the world is held up. As I said before, the world should pray for our success, because their success depends on it. |
America is not holding anyone up, in fact, it is bringing down the global economies right now.
Europe and the Euro zone are looking after themselves, and while it's a bad situation, it's a manageable. Countries that are seriously in debt (Ireland, Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy) are being supported by the countries that are not. It is making for an altogether much more stable situation. Governments are being forced to put austerity measures in place that will balance their books over time and preventing them from going on deeper into debt and borrowing endlessly.
However the massive debt and economic crisis in America is bringing down other global markets, not because America is supporting other countries, but because of the scale of the debt and the amount of borrowing going on.
Remember where this global crisis began. |
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08/07/2011 04:44:01 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by mgarsteck:
If the downfall happens, I dont think it will happen like it has throughout history. Past empires fell in one fell swoop, but I think today it would be a slow decline. |
It only appears that way because you are looking back over a long period of time. The Roman empire for example is considered to have declined over a period of around 300 years.
The British empire is said to have ended after the second world war when Britain and Europe were effectively bankrupt and America had to loan large amounts of money to both.
Now America is effectively bankrupt and China is loaning large amounts of money. Do you see a pattern? |
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08/07/2011 05:21:24 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by Covert_Oddity:
Europe and the Euro zone are looking after themselves, and while it's a bad situation, it's a manageable. Countries that are seriously in debt (Ireland, Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy) are being supported by the countries that are not. It is making for an altogether much more stable situation. Governments are being forced to put austerity measures in place that will balance their books over time and preventing them from going on deeper into debt and borrowing endlessly.
Remember where this global crisis began. |
Eurozone stabilisation of Ireland, Greece, Portugal and Spain are do-able. Italy is another matter entirely. If that isn't sorted out and many people don't think it can be, then we haven't seen anything yet. If Italy is forced/left to default (and it's really only the Germans who'll decide) then the dominoes will tumble big time. My understanding is that Gemany will choose to try to save Italy's economy but that the jury is out as to whether they are fiscally capable of doing it.
Watch the Italy situation very closely.... If it goes, buy gold, tinned food and water! (metaphorically if not literally)
Paul |
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08/07/2011 06:05:11 AM · #37 |
I love hearing the how people respond to this topic.
While our big brother America bleeds we( Australia) the country that has supported America in every armed conflict they have been involved in, sit back and sell our soul with our coal that China buys for their manufacturing.
Nothing better then having a boot in each camp.
By the way we can thank the internet for a part in the rise of the Chinese economy. Every thing and anything is available online now for consumers straight from China.
I believe this is only the tip of the iceberg, China and India are the next two superpowers like it or not. |
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08/07/2011 06:14:45 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by paulbtlw:
Eurozone stabilisation of Ireland, Greece, Portugal and Spain are do-able. Italy is another matter entirely. If that isn't sorted out and many people don't think it can be, then we haven't seen anything yet. If Italy is forced/left to default (and it's really only the Germans who'll decide) then the dominoes will tumble big time. My understanding is that Gemany will choose to try to save Italy's economy but that the jury is out as to whether they are fiscally capable of doing it.
Watch the Italy situation very closely.... If it goes, buy gold, tinned food and water! (metaphorically if not literally)
Paul |
That is very true Paul, If Italy fails then the s*it will really hit the fan!
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08/07/2011 06:21:13 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by Sevlow:
Originally posted by paulbtlw:
Eurozone stabilisation of Ireland, Greece, Portugal and Spain are do-able. Italy is another matter entirely. If that isn't sorted out and many people don't think it can be, then we haven't seen anything yet. If Italy is forced/left to default (and it's really only the Germans who'll decide) then the dominoes will tumble big time. My understanding is that Gemany will choose to try to save Italy's economy but that the jury is out as to whether they are fiscally capable of doing it.
Watch the Italy situation very closely.... If it goes, buy gold, tinned food and water! (metaphorically if not literally)
Paul |
That is very true Paul, If Italy fails then the s*it will really hit the fan! |
Didn't you mean pizzas really hitting the fan and we must not forget Spain if it goes then watch out for the Paella |
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08/07/2011 07:12:20 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by jagar:
Didn't you mean pizzas really hitting the fan and we must not forget Spain if it goes then watch out for the Paella |
Lol.
 paulbtlw Do you think the majority of English people like being in the European Union, because what I'm reading is that they want out. My opinion is they don't belong there, they are of a totally different mindset to Europeans, in the end I feel they will breakaway.
Message edited by author 2011-08-07 07:13:10. |
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08/07/2011 07:20:28 AM · #41 |
No, I'm pretty sure there will be no getting out of Europe. We held onto our own currency - that will prove to be enough.
Costs associated with getting out would outweigh any benefits by a big margin.
People do get a bit frustrated about some of the laws, especially the ones the other countries seem to ignore, but in the end, I think we remain in control of our Britishness (for better or for worse) to a great enough extent that the status quo will work for many decades yet.
Paul
(But I'll wait for the definitive Simms opinion yet!) |
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08/07/2011 07:33:22 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by Neat:
Do you think the majority of English people like being in the European Union, because what I'm reading is that they want out. My opinion is they don't belong there, they are of a totally different mindset to Europeans, in the end I feel they will breakaway. |
Europe has many mindsets. Italians are very different to Swedes, French and German cultures are not alike, Polish and Greek people are culturally further apart than Australians and Americans. I just cannot see a common European mindset. The Eurozone has been driven mainly by France and Germany, the traditional "enemies" of Great Britain. I think this mindset may still deeply entrenched from the 100 years war with France and two World Wars with Germany. I don't know what benefits, if any, UK people have from keeping the pound. It is closely linked to euro anyway.
That's just my way of thinking :) I am sure there many alternative views. |
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08/07/2011 07:38:38 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by paulbtlw:
No, I'm pretty sure there will be no getting out of Europe. We held onto our own currency - that will prove to be enough.
Costs associated with getting out would outweigh any benefits by a big margin.
People do get a bit frustrated about some of the laws, especially the ones the other countries seem to ignore, but in the end, I think we remain in control of our Britishness (for better or for worse) to a great enough extent that the status quo will work for many decades yet.
Paul
(But I'll wait for the definitive Simms opinion yet!) |
Really LOL`d at that - I was about to hit the quote/reply button then read your last line. I guess I need to make it a reply of epic proportions now with zero fact in the content (go on, say it, "nothing new there then")
;)
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08/07/2011 05:42:18 PM · #44 |
Still waiting for the epic posting Mark ;-)
I've bought in popcorn and everything! |
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08/08/2011 01:14:40 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by paulbtlw:
Still waiting for the epic posting Mark ;-)
I've bought in popcorn and everything! |
Sorry - lost my mojo on this one - watching with something akin to loathing the idiots tearing up our capital city.. |
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08/08/2011 02:00:36 PM · #46 |
These problem didn't arise over night and sure an hell wont end over night. The problem is that everyone wants change but no one wants to change.
what happened if we all went back to one worker families, every household would have a bread earner, kids wouldn't be raised in daycare and parents would be able to spend more time on raising children properly, education levels would probably increase... but we'd have to do without most of the things everyone has to have, cell phones, computers, tvs in everyroom, two brand new cars, kitchens with granite countertops, etc. we like our life too much to change, even though we all know we need it. so we continue to struggle through earning as much as we can so we can have all we can, while china capitalized on our deficiencies, supporting our dream while maintaining control of their citizens dreams.
i dont know what the solution is, but i do know we aren't going to like it and that scares the politicians into not doing anything, becuase they need to make sure we like them.
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