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08/03/2011 07:08:34 PM · #76 |
Since the beginning of this thread I have received 0 new comments in my Free Study image. This is a horrible injustice and it must be stopped.
Move along people! Nothing more to see here!
Message edited by author 2011-08-03 19:08:48. |
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08/03/2011 07:20:05 PM · #77 |
Really thanks to everybody for having posted so many comments, positive and negative. I read everything with curiosity and passion. Thanks for all the useful suggestion. It was not my intention to steal time from other challenges. Thanks for the re edits. Cheers, dt
Message edited by author 2011-08-03 19:56:47. |
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08/03/2011 08:13:22 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by chromeydome:
I didn't vote in this challenge, but this would likely have got a Ho Hum, Neither Great Nor Terrible 5 score from me on a first pass thru. It is a moderately fun image that does not demand much attention, nor needs it. It is not a "wow" image in either a positive or negative way ("wow, that is great!" or "wow, what was s/he thinking?"). It has no huge technical flaws, but it doesn't demonstrate technical excellence either. So it would have received a generous 5 because it didn't demand much attention, didn't get it, and I didn't look deeper into it.
However, the posted invitation to scrutinize this image further causes me to consider it a 4: studying this image doesn't yield any findings worthy of an increased score. There are some things that could make it a bit better, perhaps, but the OP has made it clear that he is just angry and defensive, does not really want to hear any of that sort of thing.
But the posted arrogant, whining, complaining comments by the photographer, and the indirect slamming of other images in the challenge, plus the defensive and argumentative responses to constructive critiques and comments all combine to attach a lot of negativity to the whole experience--the image now feels like a 3 to me, and the experience of viewing it in concert with the photographer's comments and responses is a solid 1, only because the scale does not go below zero.
The OP missed an opportunity for learning and discovery, and instead made the whole thing a much more negative event than it was before.
And, I give myself a 1 for spending time in another whiny thread. My bad. |
Masterful ! LOL |
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08/03/2011 09:35:37 PM · #79 |
| crop(rule of thirds foot), lighting(to harsh), dof(very shallow dof on foot) -3 |
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08/03/2011 09:56:09 PM · #80 |
So the moral of the story, be arrogant if you want honest and direct feedback.
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08/03/2011 10:05:14 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Beetle's argument is illogical. One's voting average has absolutely nothing to do with how well or how poorly their own entry will score. By your logic everyone's scores should equal their voting averages, which of course doesn't happen. It sounds like you two think his work isn't very good, but don't want to come out and say it. If that's the case then maybe offering up your own critiques would be a more beneficial than to continue promoting an illogical argument that keeps popping up from time to time. |
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! I've been Yanko'd by Yanko! |
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08/04/2011 12:03:03 AM · #82 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by bohemka:
Originally posted by Beetle:
YOU give out an average of 4.3 - so that is what the average standard of DPC is in your opinion.
This photo came in at 4.8 - half a point higher than your average, you should be very proud.
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Beetle makes a fair point here, Daniele. Since this isn't the first time you've complained about your score, which was again higher than the average score you hand out, I'd be interested in your response. |
Beetle's argument is illogical. One's voting average has absolutely nothing to do with how well or how poorly their own entry will score. By your logic everyone's scores should equal their voting averages, which of course doesn't happen. It sounds like you two think his work isn't very good, but don't want to come out and say it. If that's the case then maybe offering up your own critiques would be a more beneficial than to continue promoting an illogical argument that keeps popping up from time to time. |
I respectfully disagree with Richard. Beetle's statement does not in any way imply that one's voting average is related to how well or poorly one's entry will score. Further, it does not imply that everyone's score should equal their voting average. What Beetle said was that the dude's picture scored higher than what the dude thinks an average DPC picture should score (based on the average of scores he hands out). I do not see a flaw of logic there, at all. Of course, the dude thinks his picture should have scored not just higher that what he considers average but MUCH HIGHER (6, he said), but that is a different issue.
Edited for clarity, I think.
Message edited by author 2011-08-04 00:04:52. |
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08/04/2011 12:30:53 AM · #83 |
Originally posted by yanko:
So the moral of the story, be arrogant if you want honest and direct feedback. |
Except he refuted, rebutted, and resisted such feedback, so I'm saying he didn't want it. He wanted better scores, period. |
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08/04/2011 01:05:47 AM · #84 |
Originally posted by chromeydome:
Originally posted by yanko:
So the moral of the story, be arrogant if you want honest and direct feedback. |
Except he refuted, rebutted, and resisted such feedback, so I'm saying he didn't want it. He wanted better scores, period. |
What he really wanted was attention...like a little kid...and we've all been doing a good job of giving him that...;-) |
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08/04/2011 01:10:58 AM · #85 |
Attention Daniel....
Clean up this post or never post again about your scores....
This thread is getting outta control and the OP has disappeared.
We all agree that his OP is outta line. Somewhere between "I think my photos are X good" and "the Site thinks my photos are Y good". Yet, "I believe that I have been indiscriminately wronged by the masses"..."AGAIN"
Einstein - "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"
So, to the OP, put up or shut up. Take a look at my profile....some of my shittiest scoring photos are hanging on my wall and being appreciated by my family. Regardless of how my submissions score, I learn a little more with every challenge - whether it improves my score or my finished product is irrelevant to me. That's the point. The site is just a yard stick and a pretty open venue for photogs of all experiences and abilities to show their wares and get feedback....
I assume you took offence for getting kicked out of junior high band for not being able to keep a beat with the trombone, yet to you everyone else was half a beat off.
Gimme a break. |
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08/04/2011 01:53:06 AM · #86 |
What a wise comment +1.
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Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
There is a lot of anger in your post. We often cannot see our own entries the way others see them, which is why many of us value the critical comments so much. I often go back to my past entries that at the time, I thought would be 6+ for sure, but a couple of years later I find I see them with a different eye. As has been said, eye candy tends to rule the mass appeal scale.
You also need to learn to interpret the voting stats, and by that I mean not only the average, but the vote distribution, comments, and commenter's average as well. For example, my current entry in the FS will be doing well to pull a mediocre average, but it is getting good comments, only mild critiques and has gotten one fave from someone I respect. I know I nailed what I wanted with it, but I also knew when I entered it that it would not connect with everyone. There are many people here who enter what they like, knowing it will have a limited fan base.
FWIW, I did not get around to voting your entry, but it would have gotten a 5 from me. Looks like a creative and decent vacation snap, but it doesn't wow me. I am also a generous voter, with a 6+ average cast, for whatever that's worth. I agree with the others that with an average cast in the low 4's, you have established your own yardstick for what the average DPC entry is worth, so you should be pleased with this performance. |
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08/04/2011 02:19:40 AM · #87 |
Originally posted by senor_kasper:
Originally posted by Beetle:
YOU give out an average of 4.3 - so that is what the average standard of DPC is in your opinion.
This photo came in at 4.8 - half a point higher than your average, you should be very proud.
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Originally posted by yanko:
Beetle's argument is illogical. One's voting average has absolutely nothing to do with how well or how poorly their own entry will score. By your logic everyone's scores should equal their voting averages, which of course doesn't happen. It sounds like you two think his work isn't very good, but don't want to come out and say it. If that's the case then maybe offering up your own critiques would be a more beneficial than to continue promoting an illogical argument that keeps popping up from time to time. |
I respectfully disagree with Richard. Beetle's statement does not in any way imply that one's voting average is related to how well or poorly one's entry will score. Further, it does not imply that everyone's score should equal their voting average. What Beetle said was that the dude's picture scored higher than what the dude thinks an average DPC picture should score (based on the average of scores he hands out). I do not see a flaw of logic there, at all. Of course, the dude thinks his picture should have scored not just higher that what he considers average but MUCH HIGHER (6, he said), but that is a different issue.
Edited for clarity, I think. |
Her argument would have held a far greater weight had she just stated a critique of the image itself (which is the core of the issue) instead of basing how the OP should feel "proud" of his photo as measured against the scale of his own average score given. As a voter, I can tell you that my average vote given (6.5) does not in any way equal what I think the average image is worth on DPC. As such, she weakens her point by using that indirect comparison instead of just coming out and stating directly the list of "things" she didn't like.
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08/04/2011 02:52:21 AM · #88 |
Originally posted by hihosilver:
...... As a voter, I can tell you that my average vote given (6.5) does not in any way equal what I think the average image is worth on DPC. ...... |
Please don't misinterpret me, I do not wish to argue, I am just having trouble understanding your statement. The average score you've given after voting on nearly 17,000 pictures is 6.5, but then you say that such average does not reflect what you really think the average DPC picture should score. That sounds like you are saying that your votes were not sincere but rather inflated (or deflated?) purposely. I am sure that cannot be the case, so, I hope you will explain the part that I am missing. |
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08/04/2011 03:15:48 AM · #89 |
All that number represents is the way that I voted on those particular images which may or may not represent the average photo on DPC which is in effect a subset of all the images stored here. I'd have to vote on every single image to determine fully my actual average which I'd imagine would be much lower if I did that.
Perhaps my imagination is wrong though.
If you are better at math than I am...please enlighten me.
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08/04/2011 04:30:44 AM · #90 |
Originally posted by glockguy:
Attention Daniel....
Clean up this post or never post again about your scores....
This thread is getting outta control and the OP has disappeared.
We all agree that his OP is outta line. Somewhere between "I think my photos are X good" and "the Site thinks my photos are Y good". Yet, "I believe that I have been indiscriminately wronged by the masses"..."AGAIN"
Einstein - "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"
So, to the OP, put up or shut up. Take a look at my profile....some of my shittiest scoring photos are hanging on my wall and being appreciated by my family. Regardless of how my submissions score, I learn a little more with every challenge - whether it improves my score or my finished product is irrelevant to me. That's the point. The site is just a yard stick and a pretty open venue for photogs of all experiences and abilities to show their wares and get feedback....
I assume you took offence for getting kicked out of junior high band for not being able to keep a beat with the trombone, yet to you everyone else was half a beat off.
Gimme a break. |
well, as everyone here as the freedom to vote, everyone have the freedom to be happy with the average received or not, everyone has the freedom to complain or not, everyone has the freedom to let others know if he is unhappy or not, and as well to read, to leave a post o simply ignore this thread |
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08/04/2011 05:21:14 AM · #91 |
Originally posted by hihosilver:
All that number represents is the way that I voted on those particular images which may or may not represent the average photo on DPC which is in effect a subset of all the images stored here. I'd have to vote on every single image to determine fully my actual average which I'd imagine would be much lower if I did that.
Perhaps my imagination is wrong though.
If you are better at math than I am...please enlighten me. |
Not exactly... the number you allude to represents the scores that you doled out on those images you scored which is YOUR average. That number is specific to you and is a reflection of your opinion, but only as it relates to the images you scored and not on the totality of all the images that were viewed by the total ensemble of DPC members.
In essence what is being advocated here is that since the OP considers that all of the images he has viewed merit of score of 4.3 (or so), then he is of the opinion that the current image is of a greater quality that all of the images HE has scored.
Therein likes the difference.
Ray |
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08/04/2011 05:32:49 AM · #92 |
Originally posted by hihosilver:
All that number represents is the way that I voted on those particular images which may or may not represent the average photo on DPC which is in effect a subset of all the images stored here. I'd have to vote on every single image to determine fully my actual average which I'd imagine would be much lower if I did that. |
You cast 16,849 votes, this must be enough to create a 'reliable' average score. Most of the time statistics are based upon a small percentage of the whole and 16,849 are not a few votes. So I guess that voting all the images your average score would only slightly change. |
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08/04/2011 06:19:09 AM · #93 |
Originally posted by hihosilver:
Originally posted by senor_kasper:
Originally posted by Beetle:
YOU give out an average of 4.3 - so that is what the average standard of DPC is in your opinion.
This photo came in at 4.8 - half a point higher than your average, you should be very proud.
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Originally posted by yanko:
Beetle's argument is illogical. One's voting average has absolutely nothing to do with how well or how poorly their own entry will score. By your logic everyone's scores should equal their voting averages, which of course doesn't happen. It sounds like you two think his work isn't very good, but don't want to come out and say it. If that's the case then maybe offering up your own critiques would be a more beneficial than to continue promoting an illogical argument that keeps popping up from time to time. |
I respectfully disagree with Richard. Beetle's statement does not in any way imply that one's voting average is related to how well or poorly one's entry will score. Further, it does not imply that everyone's score should equal their voting average. What Beetle said was that the dude's picture scored higher than what the dude thinks an average DPC picture should score (based on the average of scores he hands out). I do not see a flaw of logic there, at all. Of course, the dude thinks his picture should have scored not just higher that what he considers average but MUCH HIGHER (6, he said), but that is a different issue.
Edited for clarity, I think. |
Her argument would have held a far greater weight had she just stated a critique of the image itself (which is the core of the issue) instead of basing how the OP should feel "proud" of his photo as measured against the scale of his own average score given. As a voter, I can tell you that my average vote given (6.5) does not in any way equal what I think the average image is worth on DPC. As such, she weakens her point by using that indirect comparison instead of just coming out and stating directly the list of "things" she didn't like. |
There's nothing wrong with just having a go at someone for the human factor. You've completely misinterpreted the sentiment of what Beetle and I posted. The image, or the critique of it, actually has nothing to do with the issue we raised. There's a lot of paranoia about people having paranoia about scores and results. Not everyone fits into this simple category.
I don't have an opinion about the photo either way, so this isn't about the photo, or art, or a fear of being honest and critical, or results, or how his voting average impacts anything; and that doesn't exclude me from wondering why a person would make a habit of dishing out scores they would personally find "offensive," or trying to figure out the rationale that explains why they would start a thread that could easily be seen as nothing more than an insult to the entire community here.
It would make a decent comedy sketch if it hadn't gotten all serious.
That said, I've got nothing against Daniele at all. I was just wondering, on an interpersonal communications level, if he could explain why he thought this would be a good idea, entirely unrelated to this particular photo.
I would guess, however, that native language skills and the ability to clearly express oneself are partly to blame. |
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08/04/2011 06:23:53 AM · #94 |
double post...ignore this one.
Message edited by author 2011-08-04 06:44:09. |
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08/04/2011 06:42:32 AM · #95 |
| Okay...I'm caught up now...;-) |
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08/04/2011 07:01:42 AM · #96 |
Originally posted by danieletagliabue:
I would have rated mine as 6 because what I shot it was what i was imaging to transmit to the people. |
I'm sorry but we must have different voting scales or something. This would never get close to a 6 from me. I did not vote in this challenge as i was on holiday but I would have given it a 4 in that challenge. Had that photo been entered in a challenge with more entries, such as a Free Study where there is more spread of scores required, it may even have scored a 3 from me.
I realise it's easy to throw a score out without rationale, but sometimes the rationale is harder to come by. I will try. Firstly, the object in the top right corner draws my eye immediately away from the subject. I linger there trying to work out what it is without paying attention to the rest of the image. Then when I can drag my focus away I am torn between face and foot, or maybe even boobs and foot. The boobs are roughly on the third which is where the brain naturally wants to rest, again I have to pull my gaze to the foot in the centre. I think a better depth of field making the foot much sharper than the rest would help keep my gaze in the centre. As it stands, everything else is clear enough to draw the eye. I then find the reflections in the water distracting, the lighting very harsh, and the speckles of colour in the muddy colour of the sand reflecting through the water also serve to distract.
My overwhelming feeling looking at this image is that it was a holiday snapshot taken with a camera phone. It just did not speak to me on any level. Sorry, but that's my opinion. We all have shots we think would do much better than they actually do, but wouldn't it be a boring world if everyone rated the same shots equally? Dissapointing for you perhaps... but offensive?
ETA: Alexlky's recomposition above really helps with the foot moved to the third - it has a better balance. And CJinCA's edits crop out a lot of the distractions which also helps.
Message edited by author 2011-08-04 07:04:49. |
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08/04/2011 11:05:35 AM · #97 |
Originally posted by hihosilver:
Okay...I'm caught up now...;-) |
Thanks to  Alexkc for explaining the concept of sampling. |
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08/04/2011 11:08:41 AM · #98 |
Originally posted by danieletagliabue:
well, as everyone here as the freedom to vote, everyone have the freedom to be happy with the average received or not, everyone has the freedom to complain or not, everyone has the freedom to let others know if he is unhappy or not, and as well to read, to leave a post o simply ignore this thread |
Or sit back and laugh... |
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08/04/2011 11:23:07 AM · #99 |
Originally posted by senor_kasper:
Originally posted by hihosilver:
Okay...I'm caught up now...;-) |
Thanks to Alexkc for explaining the concept of sampling. |
Being "caught up" simply means that I acknowledge that I read his post and all the posts, but any further opinion from me is not worth posting at this time because I have other things to do today. ;-)
Message edited by author 2011-08-04 11:33:29. |
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08/04/2011 11:39:50 AM · #100 |
| I agree with the original post, the people here clearly don't see the merits of the image. I'd upload it over at 1x.com. they are much more acceptant of works of such quality. |
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