Need Help - (Un)Steady Hand - DPChallenge Forums

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

06/26/2011 08:49:18 PM · #1

Perhaps I'm being over critical, or expecting more than I should, but recently I seem to have noticed that my photos appear a little blurry. I say over-critical because I'm looking at them at 100 % and looking for fine features.

I'm using a Canon 20D, and primarily the Tamron 28-75 lens. I'm using a combination of auto-focus (one shot and AI) and manual focus, depending on the need, but I've determined that the focus is not the issue I'm seeing.

It seems that photos I take under 1/250 have a little bit of a blur to them. I noticed this after shooting some things in bright sunlight where the shutter was 1/2000 or faster.

As I'm holding the camera, left hand cradling the lens, right hand on the trigger, I do notice a slight shake as I'm holding it.

Assuming that the problem is bad technique (which it probably is), can any of you offer suggestions on what I can do to fix the bad technique?

Thanks,
Paul

Mike

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

06/26/2011 08:55:48 PM · #2

do you focus and recompose with wide apertures?

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

06/26/2011 09:01:43 PM · #3

Yes and no. Depends on the subject. I would say there is a pretty good mix of recomposing and not at any focal length and aperture.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

06/26/2011 09:07:58 PM · #4

Except for the last, in increasing order of cost/difficulty:

Try tucking your left elbow inwards so that it rests somewhere around the tip of your sternum; then breathe slowly and steadily and try to shoot at the point of either full inhalation or exhalation.

Make a loop of strong string/light rope through a 1/4" eye-bolt. Screw the bolt into the tripod mounting hole on the camera, place your forward foot into the loop, and pull upweards firmly; the tension can help steady the camera. Obviously, the loop must be sized to fit your body and shooting position.

Carry a beanbag and rest the camera on it whenever possible; use the timer or a remote.

Use a mini-tripod; the one I have has a Velcro strap which allows me to fasten it securely to a post or railing.

Use a monopod or tripod more often.

~~Get a prescription for a beta-blocker or some anti-Parkinsonian medication.~~

Specialize in soft-focus images.

Mike

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

06/26/2011 09:19:26 PM · #5

unsteady hand?

you have no idea.

//vimeo.com/22878525

//vimeo.com/23838857

interesting it seems how little effect mirror lockup has.

Message edited by author 2011-06-26 21:23:42.

cloudsme

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 100-500mm f/4.5-7.1 L IS USM

06/26/2011 09:25:01 PM · #6

A tripod or monopod is very helpful.

Pentax DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] WR DC

06/26/2011 09:35:32 PM · #7

Thanks, I'll have to try some of the suggestions out. I do find that if I take a moment to calm myself before shooting, the problems do seem to diminish. I've also had excellent luck with monopods, but the use is sometimes limited. :)

tnun

Ricoh GR III

06/26/2011 10:46:24 PM · #8

Interesting. I do have VR with my Pentax, and some lenses have VR - and apparently this is the more efficient. One thing that seems to help as well is successive/continuous/bracketed shooting - after the first shot or shutter press things naturally settle down.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS II USM Lens

06/27/2011 09:28:55 AM · #9

I was wondering....could someone post a 100 % crop of a photo (unprocessed, original) you have taken and that you consider to already be in good focus? I'd like to see the features at 100 % and how it compares to what I'm getting. For best comparison, I'm using a 20D which is 8.2 MP.

Thanks...

hahn23

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

06/27/2011 10:51:06 AM · #10

Originally posted by PGerst:

Well, there are some considerations when reviewing such an image. If the image from the camera is JPG, then the parameters were processed by the in-camera processor. The degree of sharpness depends on the settings of the sharpness and contrast parameters in the camera, in addition to the vibration and shake associated with the image capture event.

If the image from the camera is in RAW format, then the camera's in-camera processor didn't alter it. However, it's important to know about the slight softness produced (intentionally) by the AA (anti-aliasing) filter (sometimes called the blur filter) residing over the sensor. It is normal procedure to sharpen images and increase contrast of images captured in RAW. This "blur" filter also applies to images captured in JPG format, but the standard in-camera processing is supposed to mitigate the slight softness. YMMV

So, the exact source of image softness can't always be isolated.

That said, a tripod and a shutter release cable can reduce vibration transmitted by the human operator. Mirror lockup function can reduce mirror slap. And, a fast enough shutter speed and precise placement of the depth-of-field plane can minimize motion blur.

Bottom line: As long as that AA filter is in place, all of my unprocessed images are going to be slightly soft at 100% pixel view. The key is capturing an image without all the other contributing sources of softness so that it can be successfully sharpened in PP. The jump in logic may seem to be, "Let's remove the AA filter." Maybe someone's done this, but I think one would end up with unintended consequences worse than slight image softness. Moire patterns would be an example.

Message edited by author 2011-06-27 11:01:27.

MelonMusketeer

Nikon D7000

Nikon MF 50mm f/1.4

06/27/2011 11:33:18 AM · #11

Re the OP, All the suggestions above are good ones, and many are things that should become part of good everyday shooting technique.
Have a look at some of your images from a few years ago, and I would expect that you will see that softness in them as well. I'm guessing that your critical eye has advanced to the point that you are seeing things that you didn't notice earlier.

Other than the suggestions already posted, have you had a good look thru your lenses with them off the camera and the aperture wide open? I think you can get the aperture on Canon lenses to stay open if you set it that way on cam, and turn off the camera before taking it off. Look in good light, like direct sunlight, and tilt the lens every way to see if there is any film or smudges that don't appear at first sight, or when looking thru the lens.
250 @ 75mm should produce fairly sharp images unless you are shaking the camera, or focus is not exact.

Another suggestion that comes to mind is that it's easy to shake the camera by pushing the shutter button too quickly. I generally try to very gently increase pressure on the shutter button until it releases, as you would with a rifle. Try your shooting technique with the longest lens you have, and with the camera turned off, so you can watch in the viewfinder as you press the shutter button. That way you can see exactly how much shake you are getting. Another way to check steadiness is to rubber band one of the little LED laser pointers to your lens, and watch the spot a wall at a distance of 20 ft or so, and you can see exactly how much shake you are getting. This would work well with the "camera off" test as well.

Shooting wide open aperture, or with very small aperture can result in soft images too. At wide open, the glass isn't as sharp as in mid aperture range, and at very small apertures, 16-22 and up, the aperture is working somewhat like a pinhole lens, and softens the resulting images.

Shooting high iso even in good light can have a negative effect on perceived sharpness as well. Try a few at iso 100 or 200 to see if there is a difference.

One last thing, I noticed a great change in sharpness with my hand held shots when I switched to using the Nikon VR ( I S in Canon terms) lenses.

Best of luck with finding and correcting whatever it is that is causing the problem.

littlemav

Nikon D90

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 24-120mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED VR

06/27/2011 12:15:42 PM · #12

My hands shake!! nothing I can do but remote shutter release, and tripod, I can't seem to get a mono pod to the place I want it.. but it sure is easier than lugging my tripod everywhere. A VR lense is a MUST for me! I've tried this trick (you might want to so you can see where your hand holding won't work anymore) Find a object with a Crisp clean edge.. Start shooting it at 1/125 1/100 then 80, 60,40,30 (if your lucky)20 and compare... If you actually have hand shakeing you may see it creep in around 60 or as me I can't hand hold a 40 at all nor a 60..(unless the light is exceptionally bright! I can blurr a pix on a tripod when the lense is not a VR, unless I have the remote release on. Any how try that little expermint using what the others have said below a med apature at least you'll know what you can hand hold and what not!

oops... Also I sharpen for print all my imanges in the RAW editor..make sure you zoom the pix to 100% and good thing to do with the clean edge shots, watch to make sure your NOT getting it too sharp, have found n Raw Edit, I can do more with out it looking crunchy (over sharp) on me than I can in PS editor... and in PS editor, at the end add a unsharp mask and dink around with it it will pop some sharpness in ... I think it does it with lighting but I'm no PS expert, I just use the preview and then unslect the preview to make sure I'm not getting stupid with it!

Good Luck!

Message edited by author 2011-06-27 12:21:38.

Revecca

Nikon D5000

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR

06/27/2011 01:27:56 PM · #13

I actually have this issue even with a tripod. I don't know whether it is me not focusing right, or camera shake. Even though I've tried with auto-focusing and it is still not sharp. It's very frustrating!

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

06/27/2011 02:22:37 PM · #14

Originally posted by Revecca:

I actually have this issue even with a tripod.

If you have image-stabilization on your camera and/or lenses, you are supposed to turn it off when using a tripod, or it can try to "correct" shake which isn't there.

Originally posted by MelonMusketeer:

Another way to check steadiness is to rubber band one of the little LED laser pointers to your lens, and watch the spot a wall at a distance of 20 ft or so, and you can see exactly how much shake you are getting.

In a dim room you can also use the (usually green) focus-assist light the same way; just half-press the shutter-button and hold it as if pre-focusing and waiting for the right moment, and see how much the light moves around.

MelonMusketeer

Nikon D7000

Nikon MF 50mm f/1.4

06/27/2011 02:22:47 PM · #15

Originally posted by Revecca:

If you are using VR Nikkor lenses, be sure to turn off the VR when you are using a tripod. It's in the manual, and it makes a difference.

@

littlemav, you may be able to get along with a monopod with a belt clip thing on it, so you can use it short, and hang the end in your belt. It allows much greater freedom of movement, and makes shots pretty solid. It also helps to press the camera against your cheek and nose (gently) while shooting. I'm the same way, and before I started using the VR lenses, it was hit or miss for me to get a sharp image. Rule of thumb about hand holding is the slowest shutter speed should be 1/(lens focal length) or with a 100 mm lens, about 1/100 sec would be the lowest safe shutter speed, 1/50 at 50mm ect. For APC sensor cameras, it would be 1/1.5, or 1/150 sec for a 100mm lens.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR

06/27/2011 02:36:51 PM · #16

I think you may be right about that. Ever since I got the macro lens....a prime...I've thought this.

Originally posted by MelonMusketeer:

I'm guessing that your critical eye has advanced to the point that you are seeing things that you didn't notice earlier.

Revecca

Nikon D5000

06/27/2011 02:44:43 PM · #17

GeneralE &

MelonMusketeer, I didn't even think of that... I usually have it on no matter what. I still have that problem with handheld but that could just be me! Thank you!

GinaRothfels

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

06/27/2011 05:28:23 PM · #18

On occasion I've forgotten to switch the stabiliser off when using a tripod. I was amazed to see quite how much blur it can create with a slow exposure.

spiritualspatula

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

06/27/2011 10:37:01 PM · #19

Originally posted by PGerst:

I think you may be right about that. Ever since I got the macro lens....a prime...I've thought this.

Originally posted by MelonMusketeer:
I'm guessing that your critical eye has advanced to the point that you are seeing things that you didn't notice earlier.

This may be the case, but the 28-75 is pretty damn sharp.
On the practice of sharp handholding, I'd recommend you watch this- Joe Mcnally video.

Pentax DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] WR DC

06/27/2011 10:51:12 PM · #20

Thanks...I'm going to give that a look.

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

This may be the case, but the 28-75 is pretty damn sharp.
On the practice of sharp handholding, I'd recommend you watch this- Joe Mcnally video.

tnun

Ricoh GR III

06/28/2011 12:25:23 AM · #21

Liked the Joe.

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100

06/28/2011 12:32:55 AM · #22

Thanks again for the video. If I remember to shoot as if I was holding a rifle, I should get some better shots.

I did just look at an array of photos I took this weekend. I was trying to be more mindful, and I did have some improvement.

spiritualspatula

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

06/28/2011 02:23:36 AM · #23

Originally posted by PGerst:

Indeed. Breathing control is very important in both. I started paying close attention to this because I take a lot of photos during climbs and whatnot, so it's a much more acute problem in those settings, but I've carried it over to elsewhere. Half the battle, really, is being aware of keeping things steady while shooting. I've only got one lens with VR, but obviously that helps things too.