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 06/19/2011 02:54:36 PM · #76
Originally posted by MargaretN:
Originally posted by nightpixels:
Wanted to post a quick reply to clarify where I was coming from with my image.
Putting aside the question of your intention, I am still interested if you are planning to submit it to 1x? Your photos are of very high quality so I always wondered why you have none published on 1x.


Why in the world are you so hung up on 1x? What does being "published" on 1x have to do with anything? I have a couple of pics on there but quickly realized that the site wasn't my cup of tea so I never submitted anything else.

And there are MANY MANY photographers who have high quality photos who are not on 1x.
 06/19/2011 04:50:49 PM · #77
Originally posted by KarenNfld:
Originally posted by posthumous:
It was obvious to me it was a statue. I gave it a 4.


Well wasn't that generous of you. I am sure the photographer bows to you.


Accurate is a more fitting word. Had the majority of voters known it was a statue it would have received a hell of lot more 4s, 5s and 6s and far fewer 8s, 9s and 10s. That's a fact. It's a competent image that meets the challenge, nothing more, nothing less.
 06/19/2011 05:41:49 PM · #78
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by KarenNfld:
Originally posted by posthumous:
It was obvious to me it was a statue. I gave it a 4.


Well wasn't that generous of you. I am sure the photographer bows to you.


Accurate is a more fitting word. Had the majority of voters known it was a statue it would have received a hell of lot more 4s, 5s and 6s and far fewer 8s, 9s and 10s. That's a fact. It's a competent image that meets the challenge, nothing more, nothing less.


Not so...that is mere speculation on your part. You MAY be spot on, but unless a full blown study was conducted there is no way of knowing for certain.

It is indeed a competent image and kudos to the submitter ... it truly met the challenge specifications.

Ray
 06/19/2011 06:48:39 PM · #79
My personal thought on this picture is why does it matter? If you looked at it and said, Wow! How did he get so lucky? and really think it was a beautiful picture, dont let knowing its fake make you enjoy it less. Why not let your imagination run wild! It doesn't look like a statue to me, and knowing that it is doesn't take away the magic from this beautiful picture, at least for me :p
 06/19/2011 06:52:54 PM · #80
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by KarenNfld:
Originally posted by posthumous:
It was obvious to me it was a statue. I gave it a 4.


Well wasn't that generous of you. I am sure the photographer bows to you.


Accurate is a more fitting word. Had the majority of voters known it was a statue it would have received a hell of lot more 4s, 5s and 6s and far fewer 8s, 9s and 10s. That's a fact. It's a competent image that meets the challenge, nothing more, nothing less.

True. If I was voting it would be a difference between 9 (still not sure about the colors) and 6. If it was real it would be National Geographic stuff as it is an impossible shot. As a shot of a statue it is a good quality but NOT great photo. This is why I have been asking about 1x as to me it is a good measure of how good a photograph is. A lot voters on DPC are amateurs, and some are beginners. The selectors on 1x are all pros and good artists on their own right. To me that makes a difference.

I have been trying to learn from Allen's photos and his PP in my own entries hence my interest. I found this particular photo not to be one of his best. Sorry to Allen and all those who think it is a great photo, we are all entitled to personal opinions.

:: running away :: (the mob mentality scares me =:-O )
 06/19/2011 07:14:15 PM · #81
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by KarenNfld:
Originally posted by posthumous:
It was obvious to me it was a statue. I gave it a 4.


Well wasn't that generous of you. I am sure the photographer bows to you.


Accurate is a more fitting word. Had the majority of voters known it was a statue it would have received a hell of lot more 4s, 5s and 6s and far fewer 8s, 9s and 10s. That's a fact. It's a competent image that meets the challenge, nothing more, nothing less.


Not so...that is mere speculation on your part. You MAY be spot on, but unless a full blown study was conducted there is no way of knowing for certain.

It is indeed a competent image and kudos to the submitter ... it truly met the challenge specifications.

Ray


well i can only speak to MY vote, which was a 9. Did it fool me? Yes. Would I have voted 9 if i had known it was a statue? No. Does it upset me? No. The bottom line is, it meets the challenge and is a great shot.

Pure speculation here, but it seems the title could be construed by some as an attempt to trick the voter. I'm not speculating about the photographer's intent whatsoever. But I know lots of folks are sensitive about being "tricked" (47 steps anyone?)
 06/19/2011 07:35:28 PM · #82
Originally posted by RayEthier:
...unless a full blown study was conducted there is no way of knowing for certain.

Ray


For your study:

Fake Deer = 6 (I like blue)

Real Deer = 8 (I like real deer)

The OP expressed disappointment that the deer were fake and I echo this sentiment. I didn't need any further explanation from the photographer, nor do I need anyone's agreement/approval to follow that sigh of disappointment with one of my own for a photo that earned a score of 7.7 from an audience who appreciated the beauty of the "real" wild. As Scalvert pointed out, the loss is our own for those of us who felt it.

Message edited by author 2011-06-19 20:11:40.
 06/19/2011 08:45:20 PM · #83
Originally posted by MargaretN:
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by KarenNfld:
Originally posted by posthumous:
It was obvious to me it was a statue. I gave it a 4.


Well wasn't that generous of you. I am sure the photographer bows to you.


Accurate is a more fitting word. Had the majority of voters known it was a statue it would have received a hell of lot more 4s, 5s and 6s and far fewer 8s, 9s and 10s. That's a fact. It's a competent image that meets the challenge, nothing more, nothing less.

True. If I was voting it would be a difference between 9 (still not sure about the colors) and 6. If it was real it would be National Geographic stuff as it is an impossible shot. As a shot of a statue it is a good quality but NOT great photo. This is why I have been asking about 1x as to me it is a good measure of how good a photograph is. A lot voters on DPC are amateurs, and some are beginners. The selectors on 1x are all pros and good artists on their own right. To me that makes a difference.

I have been trying to learn from Allen's photos and his PP in my own entries hence my interest. I found this particular photo not to be one of his best. Sorry to Allen and all those who think it is a great photo, we are all entitled to personal opinions.

:: running away :: (the mob mentality scares me =:-O )


I think some people look at 1x as competition to DPC and will have an immediate negative reaction to questions like yours. Personally, I think it's like comparing apples to oranges because the sites are setup so differently. Here, for the most part (except for the free studies) we rate photos based on how it relates to a challenge theme, where as 1x judges only the photo itself. Both sites have wonderful photographs but at the same time award disposables that don't connect with anyone emotionally or intellectually. At least here we don't discard something simply because it doesn't have Rolex-like technicals. We still value the photograph, the flawed, but compelling image. 1x is more of a wax museum, IMO.

Message edited by author 2011-06-19 20:47:27.
 06/19/2011 09:08:49 PM · #84
I gave the image 10 and I don't regret that. Was I fooled? Not entirely. I definitely thought it could be a statue, but I wasn't sure. The challenge was for silhouettes and it is a superb silhouette.
 06/19/2011 10:57:32 PM · #85
When you find out how a magician does a specific trick, the magic is literally lost. I feel the same way about some ps actions. I loved the pp on a shot only to find it was a one click process? I felt let down, as a well.
Basically, it is all in your head.
This is more than that and I am not let down. It meets the challenge, is fantastic compositionally, has great visual interest and I would have been excited to have been the artist (and, yes, I mean nightpixels, not the sculptor.)
 06/20/2011 06:28:42 AM · #86
Silhouette At Night was the challenge - It hit the challenge 100%

06/20/2011 06:55:41 AM · #87
I like what yanko said about 1x and it being a wax museum it's a bit like the beautiful people society that we live in today, everything will become uniformly boring to look at and sterile of emotion but the masses are so sheep like they can only be but sucked in.
 06/20/2011 07:43:58 AM · #88
Originally posted by jagar:
I like what yanko said about 1x and it being a wax museum it's a bit like the beautiful people society that we live in today, everything will become uniformly boring to look at and sterile of emotion but the masses are so sheep like they can only be but sucked in.
So what do I use as a benchmark for fine art photography? DPC is NOT that because meeting the challenge is much more important than creating fine photographs. How do I know then what aim for? I am lost on this.
 06/20/2011 08:03:21 AM · #89
Originally posted by MargaretN:
Originally posted by jagar:
I like what yanko said about 1x and it being a wax museum it's a bit like the beautiful people society that we live in today, everything will become uniformly boring to look at and sterile of emotion but the masses are so sheep like they can only be but sucked in.
So what do I use as a benchmark for fine art photography? DPC is NOT that because meeting the challenge is much more important than creating fine photographs. How do I know then what aim for? I am lost on this.


i think to try to catagorize what is "fine art photography" isn't possible, that definition will be different for everyone. you just need to figure out what you like and focus on creating shots based on that. don't let someone elses definition of fine art be what drives you.
 06/20/2011 08:18:33 AM · #90
Originally posted by MargaretN:
Originally posted by jagar:
I like what yanko said about 1x and it being a wax museum it's a bit like the beautiful people society that we live in today, everything will become uniformly boring to look at and sterile of emotion but the masses are so sheep like they can only be but sucked in.
So what do I use as a benchmark for fine art photography? DPC is NOT that because meeting the challenge is much more important than creating fine photographs. How do I know then what aim for? I am lost on this.


Just aim to satisfy your own vision and let your inner self speak through your photos, we all have a different take on life and we have to let that show through, as apposed to just trying to satisfy a certain perfect vision of photography as seen by a few very talented people. I guess the answer lies in what we expect to get out of photography, personally i don't expect anything other than to observe and capture what is around me and to portray that in my way and by doing so hopefully i'll be better in myself.
 06/20/2011 08:23:51 AM · #91
Originally posted by jagar:
...everything will become uniformly boring to look at and sterile of emotion but the masses are so sheep like they can only be but sucked in.


Kind of sounds like this site, at times.

Message edited by author 2011-06-20 08:47:14.
 06/20/2011 08:44:39 AM · #92
I was not fooled, I gave it a 5 and do not regret it. Now we should respect the wish of the masses and allow the winner his win. Nothing stops any measure of 'dishonesty' in these challenges. Think; self portrait with no self, 100 meters at a kilo away. Not the photographers fault unless you argue integrity and then I want to have a chat with you on what your take on integrity is.
Let this issue rest, we grow zero by having it.
 06/20/2011 08:48:53 AM · #93
Originally posted by hihosilver:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
...unless a full blown study was conducted there is no way of knowing for certain.

Ray


For your study:

Fake Deer = 6 (I like blue)

Real Deer = 8 (I like real deer)

The OP expressed disappointment that the deer were fake and I echo this sentiment. I didn't need any further explanation from the photographer, nor do I need anyone's agreement/approval to follow that sigh of disappointment with one of my own for a photo that earned a score of 7.7 from an audience who appreciated the beauty of the "real" wild. As Scalvert pointed out, the loss is our own for those of us who felt it.


Real deer = 10
Fake deer = 6 or 7

I gave it a 10. I didn't think it was real -- it was just too perfect. But, even though it was extremely unlikely, it wasn't out of the realm of possibility. So even though I was pretty sure it was fake, I voted it as if it were real.

Do I blame him for taking this shot? Not at all. The challenge was silhouette, not wildlife. Perfectly valid subject.

However, I do think it's a shame that people were fooled, simply because I think shots like this and the frog get people doubting real wildlife shots. My only fear is that someday I'll get an incredible shot like that, that happens to be real, but people are cynical because of being fooled in the past.

But there was absolutely nothing wrong with entering this in a silhouette challenge. It meets the challenge well and was beautifully done. But I'm not a fan of fake wildlife shots.

Message edited by author 2011-06-20 08:51:08.
 06/20/2011 08:54:09 AM · #94
Originally posted by jagar:
Just aim to satisfy your own vision and let your inner self speak through your photos, we all have a different take on life and we have to let that show through, as apposed to just trying to satisfy a certain perfect vision of photography as seen by a few very talented people. I guess the answer lies in what we expect to get out of photography, personally i don't expect anything other than to observe and capture what is around me and to portray that in my way and by doing so hopefully i'll be better in myself.
Thanks, John. I will ponder on this :)
 06/20/2011 09:33:15 AM · #95
.

Message edited by author 2011-06-20 10:35:11.
 06/20/2011 10:24:55 AM · #96
I think people are just pissed that they thought it was real and that somehow getting fooled by a good photo diminishes them.

Fooling people with photography is nothing new people. Just vote the image, who cares about the reality, really? DPC is not photojournalism where it's important to portray things in a truthful way, stop acting like it. I can think of several previous entries where: a) the shot was a setup and people were fooled or b) the shot was NOT faked in any way and people thought it was fake. Seriously, what does it matter either way...just vote the image.
 06/20/2011 01:36:53 PM · #97
Originally posted by MargaretN:
Originally posted by vawendy:
Yet someone ribboned with a silhouette of a frog on a leaf. The frog was cut out of paper. Wouldn't that be artwork, as well?
I am still lost on what art is. Where is posthumous? Can a cutout of a frog be called art?


Matisse used cutouts in his art a hundred years ago (more or less).
 06/20/2011 01:38:30 PM · #98
Originally posted by Judi:
Originally posted by posthumous:
It was obvious to me it was a statue. I gave it a 4.


That's a high score for you!


Yeah, well, the lighting was pretty good. :)
 06/20/2011 02:01:37 PM · #99
Originally posted by Spork99:
I think people are just pissed that they thought it was real and that somehow getting fooled by a good photo diminishes them.

Fooling people with photography is nothing new people. Just vote the image ...

Isn't being "fooled" a measure of the excellence of the photographer's vision and skill?

Every photograph, by virtue of presenting a restricted two-dimensional representation of a much broader three-dimensional scene, "fools" the viewer to a greater or lesser extent. Forensic photographers must take great pains to make photos which minimize such distortion of reality. Not to mention that the equipment cannot capture what the human eye can see in the first place -- neither of these truly represents what I saw at the time:

Unadjusted resized original: Final edited version:
06/20/2011 02:40:14 PM · #100
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Spork99:
I think people are just pissed that they thought it was real and that somehow getting fooled by a good photo diminishes them.

Fooling people with photography is nothing new people. Just vote the image ...

Isn't being "fooled" a measure of the excellence of the photographer's vision and skill?

Every photograph, by virtue of presenting a restricted two-dimensional representation of a much broader three-dimensional scene, "fools" the viewer to a greater or lesser extent. Forensic photographers must take great pains to make photos which minimize such distortion of reality. Not to mention that the equipment cannot capture what the human eye can see in the first place -- neither of these truly represents what I saw at the time:

Unadjusted resized original: Final edited version:


Ed Zachary
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