| Author | Thread |
|
|
06/10/2011 01:19:05 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Two different things. Most people can easily separate their work life from their home life. If you were sleeping around on your wife, it wouldn't make you less of a doctor, would it? You'd still be able to perform at your job because one has nothing to do with the other. And if you got caught out in public and lied about it to protect your wife's privacy, it still wouldn't make you less of a doctor. That's the whole thing in a nutshell. Now if he'd been caught, and lied about taking bribes to develop a condo complex on protected wetlands, or caught embezzling, that would be a whole different story. |
I quite disagree. If I was sleeping around and felt that my committment to my wife was not important, maybe I'm more likely to be willing to sell patient information to third parties if the price is right. It wouldn't change my knowledge about medicine, but it might reflect how I do business.
I know lots of you value a marraige covenant very little, at least on a theoretical level (not implying any actual relationship troubles here), but I happen to think it is important and if someone is willing to step all over that (espcially considering this is a person you supposedly love and should have a closer attachment to than Joe Public), I worry they are willing to step all over other things. Plus, even more importantly, the dude totally lied and tried to cover it up until the very moment he perceived it hurt him more to lie than to tell the truth. Obviously he is looking out for #1. Don't you think half the terrible things congress has done have been a product of interest in reelection rather than interest in the public?
Message edited by author 2011-06-10 13:21:51. |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 01:25:00 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
And if you got caught out in public and lied about it to protect your wife's privacy, it still wouldn't make you less of a doctor. |
One does not cause the other, but it can be an indicator of performance in other areas. Like I said, we hold them to high character/moral standards, because we use those markers as indicators of other behaviors.
It's the same reason you have character witnesses in criminal trials. If you hang around with hoodlums it doesn't mean you are a murderer, but it's an indicator of the likelihood of other behaviors.
Message edited by author 2011-06-10 13:25:46. |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 01:40:29 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by adigitalromance:
Originally posted by Kelli:
And if you got caught out in public and lied about it to protect your wife's privacy, it still wouldn't make you less of a doctor. |
One does not cause the other, but it can be an indicator of performance in other areas. Like I said, we hold them to high character/moral standards, because we use those markers as indicators of other behaviors.
It's the same reason you have character witnesses in criminal trials. If you hang around with hoodlums it doesn't mean you are a murderer, but it's an indicator of the likelihood of other behaviors. |
It could also just be an indicator that the person likes something their spouse won't/can't supply. Sometimes, sex is just sex. I'm not advocating cheating on your spouse, but I really believe it's a personal matter and has nothing to do with job performance. I think Clinton did a great job as president. As much as the other side tried to hurt him, his only real flaw was he liked sex with people that weren't his wife. And if his wife didn't care, why should anyone else? As for Weiner, never heard of him before this, but as far as I know it wasn't even a matter of cheating, just sending pictures. At least a few people on here have posted worse than what he sent. |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 01:45:01 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Two different things. Most people can easily separate their work life from their home life. If you were sleeping around on your wife, it wouldn't make you less of a doctor, would it? You'd still be able to perform at your job because one has nothing to do with the other. And if you got caught out in public and lied about it to protect your wife's privacy, it still wouldn't make you less of a doctor. That's the whole thing in a nutshell. Now if he'd been caught, and lied about taking bribes to develop a condo complex on protected wetlands, or caught embezzling, that would be a whole different story. |
I quite disagree. If I was sleeping around and felt that my committment to my wife was not important, maybe I'm more likely to be willing to sell patient information to third parties if the price is right. It wouldn't change my knowledge about medicine, but it might reflect how I do business.
I know lots of you value a marraige covenant very little, at least on a theoretical level (not implying any actual relationship troubles here), but I happen to think it is important and if someone is willing to step all over that (espcially considering this is a person you supposedly love and should have a closer attachment to than Joe Public), I worry they are willing to step all over other things. Plus, even more importantly, the dude totally lied and tried to cover it up until the very moment he perceived it hurt him more to lie than to tell the truth. Obviously he is looking out for #1. Don't you think half the terrible things congress has done have been a product of interest in reelection rather than interest in the public? |
Then again, it might not reflect how someone else does business.
It's amazing how many people are so perfect and are willing to crucify someone for being human and giving in to their weaknesses.
If someone is overweight, clearly they don't value themselves enough to eat properly and stay healthy, so they must be horrible people, right? Or, how about smokers, obviously, they are weak minded and unable to overcome their weaknesses, so they're horrible in all aspects of their lives. ( I seem to remeber that President Obama struggles with smoking...clearly he doesn't give a damn about his health, so he really is a horrible excuse for a human being, right?)
ETA: I don't think that what Congressman Weiner did with his wiener was necessarily a good idea, or even if it was OK, it's simply not my place to judge him for his failings in a very personal area of his life. It's up to his wife to decide if she can forgive him or not. It's up to his constituents if he gets re-elected. Lying about it to the press is a non-issue. I'd lie to the press too, because it's just none of their goddamn business.
Message edited by author 2011-06-10 13:53:28. |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 01:48:30 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by adigitalromance:
I have more respect for Tiger Woods because at least he showed remorse. |
When 90% of your income comes from endorsement deals you better show remorse or you risk losing your entire public image cash cow.
Message edited by author 2011-06-10 13:49:32. |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 01:50:26 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Two different things. Most people can easily separate their work life from their home life. If you were sleeping around on your wife, it wouldn't make you less of a doctor, would it? You'd still be able to perform at your job because one has nothing to do with the other. And if you got caught out in public and lied about it to protect your wife's privacy, it still wouldn't make you less of a doctor. That's the whole thing in a nutshell. Now if he'd been caught, and lied about taking bribes to develop a condo complex on protected wetlands, or caught embezzling, that would be a whole different story. |
Nice summery Barrister +1 |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 01:50:48 PM · #32 |
| I believe we are a whole and as such anything we do is interdependent with anything else we do, if we are truthful towards ourselves and examine our own personality we know this to be true and that's why naturally we would like people in authority to have an exemplary character, or at least I would. |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 01:53:23 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Two different things. Most people can easily separate their work life from their home life. If you were sleeping around on your wife, it wouldn't make you less of a doctor, would it? You'd still be able to perform at your job because one has nothing to do with the other. And if you got caught out in public and lied about it to protect your wife's privacy, it still wouldn't make you less of a doctor. That's the whole thing in a nutshell. Now if he'd been caught, and lied about taking bribes to develop a condo complex on protected wetlands, or caught embezzling, that would be a whole different story. |
I quite disagree. If I was sleeping around and felt that my committment to my wife was not important, maybe I'm more likely to be willing to sell patient information to third parties if the price is right. It wouldn't change my knowledge about medicine, but it might reflect how I do business.
I know lots of you value a marraige covenant very little, at least on a theoretical level (not implying any actual relationship troubles here), but I happen to think it is important and if someone is willing to step all over that (espcially considering this is a person you supposedly love and should have a closer attachment to than Joe Public), I worry they are willing to step all over other things. Plus, even more importantly, the dude totally lied and tried to cover it up until the very moment he perceived it hurt him more to lie than to tell the truth. Obviously he is looking out for #1. Don't you think half the terrible things congress has done have been a product of interest in reelection rather than interest in the public? |
Ahem, you kill lady bugs just to win virtual ribbons. I better go find another sneezyologist...
Message edited by author 2011-06-10 13:55:33. |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 01:54:15 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by hawkeyefilms:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Two different things. Most people can easily separate their work life from their home life. If you were sleeping around on your wife, it wouldn't make you less of a doctor, would it? You'd still be able to perform at your job because one has nothing to do with the other. And if you got caught out in public and lied about it to protect your wife's privacy, it still wouldn't make you less of a doctor. That's the whole thing in a nutshell. Now if he'd been caught, and lied about taking bribes to develop a condo complex on protected wetlands, or caught embezzling, that would be a whole different story. |
Nice summery Barrister +1 |
Personal lives don't necessarily have anything to do with professional lives. Flawed people can hold office and do a good job.
HOWEVER:
There's a difference between bad life choices and stupid life choices.
This was stupid.
Stupid.
I don't want stupid running the state/country. |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 01:55:30 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
I don't want stupid running the state/country. |
Way too late for that. |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 01:55:45 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by jagar:
I believe we are a whole and as such anything we do is interdependent with anything else we do, if we are truthful towards ourselves and examine our own personality we know this to be true and that's why naturally we would like people in authority to have an exemplary character, or at least I would. |
And I believe we are all humans who make mistakes, sometimes really stupid ones at that. I'm pretty sure I've never voted for a robot (though, sometimes it's really a possiblity), and therefore I expect the people I elect to have human type flaws. |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 01:55:53 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by robs:
Oh come on... Why are people upset that a POLITICIAN lied.... Seriously?? Really? |
Has it gotten so bad that you don't even expect such common behavior as telling the truth? We are truly circling the drain if that is the state of affairs. |
Yes... I expect politicians of every party to lie when it's in their interests. I also expect them to place their interests ahead of the public interest.
Is that a pathetic outlook - Yes.
Do I wish it was different - Yes.
Do I expect that to change - No. |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 01:56:52 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by yanko:
When 90% of your income comes from endorsement deals you better show remorse or you risk losing your entire public image cash cow. |
Excellent point! and I think that also explains why politicians want to save face as well.
I hold everyone to a high double standard. ;-)
No one can please everyone simultaneously.
|
|
|
|
06/10/2011 01:58:01 PM · #39 |
Ah, Libertarians. Everything goes until you cross them, then you have stepped over the line. If your line is not the same as theirs, you are crazy for forcing your opinion upon other people. So predictable.
Maybe, when questioned, Weener (pun intended) should have just said, "that's none of your business" rather than lying.
OTOH, we all have the freedom in this country to decide what's important when voting for officials. I'm not going to have someone try to force their opinion upon me by implying that it is crazy to consider people's personal lives as a reflection of how they might function in their public office. It cuts both ways. |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 02:02:07 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Ah, DrA. Everything goes until you cross them, then you have stepped over the line. If your line is not the same as theirs, you are crazy for forcing your opinion upon other people. So predictable.
Maybe, when questioned, Weener (pun intended) should have just said, "that's none of your business" rather than lying.
OTOH, we all have the freedom in this country to decide what's important when voting for officials. I'm not going to have someone try to force their opinion upon me by implying that it is crazy to consider people's personal lives as a reflection of how they might function in their public office. It cuts both ways. |
Minor revision:
Ah, DrAchoo. Everything goes until you cross him, then you have stepped over the line. If your line is not the same as his, you are crazy for forcing your opinion upon other people. So predictable.
Maybe, when questioned, Weener (pun intended) should have just said, "that's none of your business" rather than lying.
OTOH, we all have the freedom in this country to decide what's important when voting for officials. I'm not going to have someone try to force their opinion upon me by implying that it is crazy to consider people's personal lives as a reflection of how they might function in their public office. It cuts both ways. |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 02:10:49 PM · #41 |
Cute. ;) But the issue is that libertarians have as their fundamental value....ta da....LIBERTY. So why they start bitching about what other people do or think is beyond me. If Joe Public thinks it's important to know whether Congressman Weener can keep his dick in his pants, then so be it. They have the LIBERTY to do that, no? There are no laws against it and most libertarians pick and choose which laws they think are important anyway.
Non-libertarians are not encumbered by their own position. They are free to make judgement calls because they do not automatically devalue judgement. |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 02:17:44 PM · #42 |
The thing is, it's not really a partisan issue. It's a human issue. When a democrat gets caught, the rhetoric is enough to choke a horse. Yet when it's one of the Holier than Thou republicans, it's always a different story. Talk about your double standards.
Both side are pretty equal...
|
|
|
|
06/10/2011 02:23:03 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
The thing is, it's not really a partisan issue. It's a human issue. When a democrat gets caught, the rhetoric is enough to choke a horse. Yet when it's one of the Holier than Thou republicans, it's always a different story. Talk about your double standards.
Both side are pretty equal... |
Well, if that's the case (and I think it is with both sides generally closing rank around their wounded representative), it shouldn't be. I agree it's not a partisan thing and probably only further shows the dysfunction in Congress if one checks party affiliation before deciding whether someone has misbehaved. |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 02:54:53 PM · #44 |
| He humiliated his wife. I find that relevant. |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 02:56:51 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I know lots of you value a marraige covenant very little ... |
Whatever makes you say that? I've found quite the opposite ... |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 02:59:45 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by hawkeyefilms:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Two different things. Most people can easily separate their work life from their home life. If you were sleeping around on your wife, it wouldn't make you less of a doctor, would it? You'd still be able to perform at your job because one has nothing to do with the other. And if you got caught out in public and lied about it to protect your wife's privacy, it still wouldn't make you less of a doctor. That's the whole thing in a nutshell. Now if he'd been caught, and lied about taking bribes to develop a condo complex on protected wetlands, or caught embezzling, that would be a whole different story. |
Nice summery Barrister +1 |
Personal lives don't necessarily have anything to do with professional lives. Flawed people can hold office and do a good job.
HOWEVER:
There's a difference between bad life choices and stupid life choices.
This was stupid.
Stupid.
I don't want stupid running the state/country. |
Have you ever seen the size of the brain in a penis? ;D |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 03:03:01 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
There are no laws against it and most libertarians pick and choose which laws they think are important anyway. |
Not unlike non-liberarians. The gamut of self interest is as large as the human landscape. What you call judgments is often just self interest in disguise. |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 03:06:59 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by jagar:
I believe we are a whole and as such anything we do is interdependent with anything else we do, if we are truthful towards ourselves and examine our own personality we know this to be true and that's why naturally we would like people in authority to have an exemplary character, or at least I would. |
I like this holistic (if not somewhat idealistic) approach, but I do question whether or not we have reasonable expectations of our leadership in general given the set of temptations available to those with power that would not otherwise be available to those without.
Just wondering... |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 03:12:32 PM · #49 |
Personally, I don't give a rats because it is just that...personal. If it pisses you off, make sure you aren't doing anything and I do mean anything wrong in your own life. Politicians have proven that they are not to be trusted and are pretty much self-serving anymore, regardless of their party affiliation.
Weiner's weener is not of interest to me and what he does behind closed doors is his business. If it affects my life in some way, then I'll worry about it. This is NOT a new issue with political office. Lincoln, a white man, fathered a child out of wedlock with a black slave. Truman was a cross-dresser, as previously mentioned, Marilyn Monroe liked most of the Kennedys, the previous gov. of IL gets charged with embezzlement and he AND his wife get slots on reality TV shows, it's not new and because human beings are not perfect and "sin free", it will continue.
Do I agree with what he did? NO
Do I care? NO
Do I think the YELLOW JOURNALISM present in this country is a major factor? YES
Anything to get ratings or internet hits. The media down here is so bad that the only crap you see on TV is this type of smarmy, unnecessary crap. When FOX radio in Dallas changed their tag line to "Fox News Radio, Fair and Unbiased"...you know there were credibility issues!!! I went to school for media and journalism and I wouldn't touch that profession with a 10 foot pole because they thrive on this kind of stuff!!! Disgusting!!
As for what Kelli's previous comment (snicker), that saying that men think with their little head came about for a reason. Men (generalization, so don't start throwing rotten tomatoes) have and have had a weakness when it comes to sex (I'm sure there are women also) that caused this "innuendo" to be born in the first place. Women are known as the "fairer' sex, not the weaker sex, muahahaha!
Weiner is a dog! *runs*
Message edited by author 2011-06-10 15:55:37. |
|
|
|
06/10/2011 03:17:50 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
He humiliated his wife. I find that relevant. |
Concur. The fact that he is recently married made this stupid little sexual diversion he has enjoyed for a few years now much much worse. Sending out pictures of your private parts and typing sexual fantasies to strangers is pathetic, but basically harmless (provided the recipient wants to play your sorry game). However if you are married, or in a position of representing people is unforgivably stupid. In a marriage it is very hard to keep secrets, and in a high public office it is virtually impossible. To risk so much for such a pathetic thrill makes Mr Weiner a poor judge of a risk reward situation, and that is what makes a good policy maker, someone who can assess risks well.
He ought to resign, however I would bet he will be re-elected. Most Brooklyn residents seem to smirk and shrug this news off. He doesn't represent the bible belt, and has in the past seemed to be a good representative for his district.
|
|
