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05/18/2011 02:24:50 PM · #101 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
'm not too worried about your opinion Clive. |
Well, ditto there Doc. I still feel slightly nauseous when i think about your unsavoury views on homosexuality.
Grr! I knew i shouldn't have stepped into this thread with certain people. Winds me up too much. Ha! |
Aww, don't get all wound up. Debate is debate and people do get hot under the collar, but in the end we're just discussing ideas (which currently do not involve homosexuality). Just take it for what it's worth.
Sorry Spork, I agree. If the evidence present isn't going to sway you, I doubt anything would. So, as GuGi asked, are you going to put on a brave face and tell me your daughter (if you have one) is welcome to be a prostitute if she elects to do so? You wouldn't try to talk her out of it? |
Of course I would. I'd also try to talk her out of working at the local McDonalds, becoming a prison guard, skipping college to follow "the band" all over the country, joining the military, studying art as a career, becoming an engineer, a sewer worker or any number of career options as well. In the end though, it would be her decision, my job as a parent is to guide them in making an informed decision, not to decide for them.
My approval of my child's career choice isn't necessary, but if it makes them happy, great. If it doesn't, I'll be there to support them without condemnation or saying "I told you so". |
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05/18/2011 02:31:02 PM · #102 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
...are you going to put on a brave face and tell me your daughter (if you have one) is welcome to be a prostitute if she elects to do so? You wouldn't try to talk her out of it? |
Well, yes that's a tricky one of course. I do have a young one year daughter ( as well as a 20 year old son) and it's hard to imagine how i would feel when she is older. I like to think i would be pretty open minded about it and if it was completely safe and it was what she really wanted to do i would support her. I do have some experience with this as i have a couple of friends who work as 'sex workers' (they would not accept the term prostitute) and they are wonderful, stable, happy people who enjoy what they do. They tend to be pretty specialised and geared towards the BDSM side of things and one has a lot of disabled clients. Notice my terminology here as she totally sees herself in a therapy type position. Of course, they could go to jail for it. They are obviously streets away from the large majority of sex workers who are often forced into it, pimped and put in violent situations. So as to my daughter-if she turned out like my friend i would be supportive, happy for her and proud of her i think. Obviously i would be distraught if she was forced into prostitution and pimped as a street walker. She would be in far more danger in the criminalised system as it is now thats for sure. I'm hoping she'll become an astronaut though.
Message edited by author 2011-05-18 14:32:18. |
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05/18/2011 02:37:31 PM · #103 |
Originally posted by GuGi:
I left the discussion, wanting to get my "gay" sleep last night, in my "gay" pj's. Have now had a "gay" breakfast with another "gay" person who spent the night, (in my "gay" livingr
In polygamy, the victims there are women, not men. Now, someone might try to find a tribe or society somewhere were women can have many husbands, but the victims in polygamy are women. Yes, I chose to call them victims, this is not the life they would chose, but you see, they have no choice. Their society allows it, both muslim and christian societies - ruled by men, not by women.
And now, I have to do some linguistic research, I shall try my darndest in refraining from it having any gay angle, we wouldn't want it to be biased - now would we ;) |
If thats true, then the same can be said of a woman married to one man by force. Many women in the same societies are forced into marriages as well. What does polygamy have to do with making women victims in that case? Polygamy as far as i know, is defined as the practice of having more than one wife or husband at the same time. Not a union with partners forced into marriage. This makes absolutely zero sense to me lol |
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05/18/2011 02:47:26 PM · #104 |
Hmmm....So if she wanted to be a prostitute and serviced Astronauts on a long voyage it would be a win/win situation.... :o Doh !
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
...are you going to put on a brave face and tell me your daughter (if you have one) is welcome to be a prostitute if she elects to do so? You wouldn't try to talk her out of it? |
Well, yes that's a tricky one of course. I do have a young one year daughter ( as well as a 20 year old son) and it's hard to imagine how i would feel when she is older. I like to think i would be pretty open minded about it and if it was completely safe and it was what she really wanted to do i would support her.
I'm hoping she'll become an astronaut though. |
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05/18/2011 02:54:08 PM · #105 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
Hmmm....So if she wanted to be a prostitute and serviced Astronauts on a long voyage it would be a win/win situation.... :o Doh ! |
Yes, she could be like Inara in Firefly. (one for the geeks there)
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05/18/2011 03:11:59 PM · #106 |
| The fact of the matter is most people engage in prostitution in one form or another. Just because you're not getting cash doesn't mean you're not getting payment. Back in my dating days, it was the norm for whoever I was sleeping with to buy me dinner, drinks, pay for some means of amusement (movies, amusement park, carnival, whatever), gifts of jewelry, clothing, etc. So, was I taking payment for sex? I think so. I got the ultimate payment from my husband with the wedding ring. Was what I did illegal? No, simply because I didn't ask for cash. Bizarre. |
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05/18/2011 03:19:00 PM · #107 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
The fact of the matter is most people engage in prostitution in one form or another. Just because you're not getting cash doesn't mean you're not getting payment. Back in my dating days, it was the norm for whoever I was sleeping with to buy me dinner, drinks, pay for some means of amusement (movies, amusement park, carnival, whatever), gifts of jewelry, clothing, etc. So, was I taking payment for sex? I think so. I got the ultimate payment from my husband with the wedding ring. Was what I did illegal? No, simply because I didn't ask for cash. Bizarre. |
Agreed! All a matter of perspective :) |
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05/18/2011 03:21:34 PM · #108 |
Originally posted by dmadden:
Originally posted by Kelli:
The fact of the matter is most people engage in prostitution in one form or another. Just because you're not getting cash doesn't mean you're not getting payment. Back in my dating days, it was the norm for whoever I was sleeping with to buy me dinner, drinks, pay for some means of amusement (movies, amusement park, carnival, whatever), gifts of jewelry, clothing, etc. So, was I taking payment for sex? I think so. I got the ultimate payment from my husband with the wedding ring. Was what I did illegal? No, simply because I didn't ask for cash. Bizarre. |
Agreed! All a matter of perspective :) |
And btw - since the wedding (23 years ago), it's been COD! ROFL!
And for those few women who don't put out before the wedding, it's really a "cash up front" deal. |
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05/18/2011 03:25:34 PM · #109 |
So when someone says "...all women are whores", you would tend to agree with them?
Originally posted by Kelli:
The fact of the matter is most people engage in prostitution in one form or another. Just because you're not getting cash doesn't mean you're not getting payment. Back in my dating days, it was the norm for whoever I was sleeping with to buy me dinner, drinks, pay for some means of amusement (movies, amusement park, carnival, whatever), gifts of jewelry, clothing, etc. So, was I taking payment for sex? I think so. I got the ultimate payment from my husband with the wedding ring. Was what I did illegal? No, simply because I didn't ask for cash. Bizarre. |
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05/18/2011 03:29:02 PM · #110 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
So when someone says "...all women are whores", you would tend to agree with them?
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I was gonna ask if I could buy her a drink.... ;)
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05/18/2011 03:50:01 PM · #111 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
So when someone says "...all women are whores", you would tend to agree with them?
Originally posted by Kelli:
The fact of the matter is most people engage in prostitution in one form or another. Just because you're not getting cash doesn't mean you're not getting payment. Back in my dating days, it was the norm for whoever I was sleeping with to buy me dinner, drinks, pay for some means of amusement (movies, amusement park, carnival, whatever), gifts of jewelry, clothing, etc. So, was I taking payment for sex? I think so. I got the ultimate payment from my husband with the wedding ring. Was what I did illegal? No, simply because I didn't ask for cash. Bizarre. |
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By one definition, yes...
whore [hɔː]
n
a prostitute or promiscuous woman: often a term of abuse
vb (intr)
1. to be or act as a prostitute
2. (of a man) to have promiscuous sexual relations, esp with prostitutes
3. (often foll by after) to seek that which is immoral, idolatrous, etc.
But I did say most people, not most women, because it's a two way street. And I really wouldn't want to be called a whore.
pros·ti·tute (prst-tt, -tyt)
n.
1. One who solicits and accepts payment for sex acts.
2. One who sells one's abilities, talent, or name for an unworthy purpose.
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05/18/2011 03:52:08 PM · #112 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by kenskid:
So when someone says "...all women are whores", you would tend to agree with them?
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I was gonna ask if I could buy her a drink.... ;) |
...oh honey, it would cost you more than just the price of one drink. ROFL! But I've been a good girl since I got married. |
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05/18/2011 04:01:52 PM · #113 |
| Seems like a pretty confusing position Kelli. |
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05/18/2011 04:04:43 PM · #114 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Seems like a pretty confusing position Kelli. |
Yeah, being good is always confusing... oh wait, you were talking about that other thing she posted.
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05/18/2011 04:11:31 PM · #115 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Back in my dating days, it was the norm for whoever I was sleeping with to buy me dinner, drinks, pay for some means of amusement (movies, amusement park, carnival, whatever), gifts of jewelry, clothing, etc. So, was I taking payment for sex? I think so. |
This can be shown to be false on many levels. So are you saying that once your date paid for dinner you were obligated to put out? There was no way you could change your mind without at the very least you paying him back for dinner? I'm hoping this really isn't true. |
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05/18/2011 04:11:33 PM · #116 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Seems like a pretty confusing position Kelli. |
Which one? That I don't mind if someone who knew me way back when said I prostituted because I accepted gifts from boyfriends? Or that I would mind being called a whore? I read something a long time ago in a Dear Abby column and never forgot it. It said "women use sex to get love and affection, and men use love and affection to get sex". It all seems pretty reasonable to me. Only way back when, I wasn't looking for love so I used sex to get the things I wanted. I don't see anything wrong with that. |
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05/18/2011 04:17:18 PM · #117 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Back in my dating days, it was the norm for whoever I was sleeping with to buy me dinner, drinks, pay for some means of amusement (movies, amusement park, carnival, whatever), gifts of jewelry, clothing, etc. So, was I taking payment for sex? I think so. |
This can be shown to be false on many levels. So are you saying that once your date paid for dinner you were obligated to put out? There was no way you could change your mind without at the very least you paying him back for dinner? I'm hoping this really isn't true. |
No, I absolutely always had the right to say no. And, no I wouldn't have even went as far as paying him back for dinner. But, you're kind of missing the point. These weren't random men I picked up and said "hey buy me this or that and I'll sleep with you". These were people I dated. But still, I expected certain things. And I certainly never paid for anything that we did together.
edit for spelling...
Message edited by author 2011-05-18 16:20:16. |
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05/18/2011 04:20:05 PM · #118 |
| I guess I can just say I come from a very different world. |
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05/18/2011 04:20:42 PM · #119 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I guess I can just say I come from a very different world. |
I'm sure you do. I could tell you stories that would make your hair stand on end. |
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05/18/2011 04:22:48 PM · #120 |
| I don't doubt it! It's already on end, but that's cuz it's short. :) |
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05/18/2011 04:33:18 PM · #121 |
Lois: Honey, what do you say we uh...christen these new sheets, huh?
Peter: Why Lois Griffin, you naughty girl.
Lois: Hehehe...that's me.
Peter: You dirty hustler.
Lois: Hehehehe...
Peter: You filthy, stinky prostitute.
Lois: Aha, ok I get it...
Peter: You foul, venereal disease carrying, street walking whore.
Lois: Alright, that's enough!
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05/18/2011 04:33:37 PM · #122 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I don't doubt it! It's already on end, but that's cuz it's short. :) |
LOL |
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05/18/2011 05:46:01 PM · #123 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Since it's like shooting fish in a barrel, why not take a few shots? Go on. Tell us, what is the harm in consenting adults agreeing to payment in exchange for sex? |
I'd be happy to if you would please read it this time since you obviously aren't reading above:
Achoo: "the point is not to say 89% want out so we must make it criminal"
Spork: "If 89% of teachers were unhappy with teaching, should we make teaching illegal?"
So this time, read carefully...
Raymond, D̢۪Cunha, et al. (2002) found that 80% of women who had been trafficked or prostituted suffered violence-related injuries in prostitution. Among the women interviewed by Parriott (1994), 85% had been raped in prostitution. In another study, 94% of those in street prostitution had experienced sexual assault and 75% had been raped by one or more johns (Miller, 1995). In the Netherlands, where prostitution is legal, 60% of prostituted women suffered physical assaults; 70% experienced verbal threats of physical assault; 40% experienced sexual violence; and 40% had been forced into prostitution or sexual abuse by acquaintances (Vanwesenbeeck, 1994). Most young women in prostitution were abused or beaten by johns as well as pimps. Silbert and Pines (1981, 1982b) reported that 70% of women suffered rape in prostitution, with 65% having been physically assaulted by customers and 66% assaulted by pimps.
Of 854 people in prostitution in nine countries (Canada, Colombia, Germany, Mexico, South Africa, Thailand, Turkey, United States, and Zambia), 71% experienced physical assaults in prostitution, and 62% reported rapes in prostitution (Farley, Cotton, et al., 2003). |
Not trying to be the devil's advocate here Doc but I would be interested in knowing if these studies dealt with prostitutes involved in street prostitution or the higher echelon of prostitution.
It would also help a great deal if the information provided in these studies provided some breakdown of the statistics relative to the situations faced by those prostitutes working within a legalized and monitored system versus those that fall under the control of street pimps.
I have no problems in addressing statistical studies, but I do like to ensure that the information that I am looking at does provide all of the situational data... it does make a difference.
Ray |
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05/18/2011 06:12:29 PM · #124 |
You'd have to look them up yourself Ray. In my exploration of some of the studies (Vanwesenbeeck, for example), there is a gradation and street prostitutes naturally have the highest risk, but it isn't a gradation that goes to zero if you just get into a good whorehouse, it remains high and unacceptably so.
Don't trust me though, if you want to know, nose around Google Scholar for yourself. |
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05/18/2011 06:17:38 PM · #125 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
You'd have to look them up yourself Ray. In my exploration of some of the studies (Vanwesenbeeck, for example), there is a gradation and street prostitutes naturally have the highest risk, but it isn't a gradation that goes to zero if you just get into a good whorehouse, it remains high and unacceptably so.
Don't trust me though, if you want to know, nose around Google Scholar for yourself. |
I would be interested in those same statistics for Nevada if there are any. Since that is a little closer to home for most of us. To make the comparison to other countries you would also have to break down other crimes in those same areas to see how it all adds up. |
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