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05/07/2011 03:28:52 AM · #76 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
es. Though you may cast a doubtful eye at Pakistan's sincerity as an ally, we still need access to their supply routes to Afghanistan. A graphic photo depicting the brutal demise of a prominent, though not necessarily loved, Muslim at the hands of Americans would at best inflame tensions among people we're NOT at war with. At worst, it could trigger an anti-American fundamentalist revolution in a nuclear armed country. |
There comes a time where worrying about offending some religious group just isn't worth the effort. Heck after reading your atheist writings in rant I'd think you'd agree. But no you'd rather call fellow DPC'ers Simple Minded. As for supply lines.... if we withdraw
our ground troops from Afghanistan we wouldn't need supplies. As for revolution in a nuclear armed country, they don't have a delivery system to threaten us directly. They can harm those that really are most like themselves: Muslims. Personally I don't care if I see the photo. If it's available I'll look. If only to see the demise of one who would rally others on to kill defenseless men, women and children. One who came from a rich family to try and lead those stuck in the 14th century to conquer the world. I really think that many Muslim men would like an image of the dead idiot. If for no other reason than to show their children the consequences of religious audacity. |
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05/07/2011 03:31:09 AM · #77 |
Originally posted by Socom:
p.s. I dont think the picture will help any, I don't really care if I ever see it and have no need to see it, but I also dont think it will hurt anything politically. |
Do you think you off the cuff decision is more valid than the opinion of people who have studied these issues for a lifetime and have thought long and hard on this question, balancing the many, many threads they have seen? In a true democracy your off the cuff feeling has the same weight as their considered opinion, but could you thinking be influenced by listening to more informed people, or has your mind been made up? |
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05/07/2011 03:37:49 AM · #78 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Originally posted by Socom:
p.s. I dont think the picture will help any, I don't really care if I ever see it and have no need to see it, but I also dont think it will hurt anything politically. |
Do you think you off the cuff decision is more valid than the opinion of people who have studied these issues for a lifetime and have thought long and hard on this question, balancing the many, many threads they have seen? In a true democracy your off the cuff feeling has the same weight as their considered opinion, but could you thinking be influenced by listening to more informed people, or has your mind been made up? |
I'd like to see those lifetime studied opinions. Unfortunately the ones pontificating in the news aren't them. :) |
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05/07/2011 03:44:23 AM · #79 |
Originally posted by FireBird:
As for revolution in a nuclear armed country, they don't have a delivery system to threaten us directly. They can harm those that really are most like themselves: Muslims. |
Many Americans don't care about Pakistan one way or another. By the end of the decade, the will most likely be the fifth largest economy in the world, and be the tipping point country (along with Turkey) in the shape of the next generation of Islamic states. Might be secular and modernist, might be fundamentalist and reactionary. Sure, we could wipe them out in a nuclear war, but that is not the ideal option to my mind. We live in a flat world these days, like it or not, and the future of Pakistan will be important in the next few years. |
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05/07/2011 03:44:26 AM · #80 |
Yeah great lets all look at the picture of a dead body!! is it really going to make you feel better.
The dude got smoked!.....lets move on and hope it doesn't take another ten years to catch the next lunatic that pops up!! because there sure is going to be another and another and another. |
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05/07/2011 03:44:39 AM · #81 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Originally posted by Socom:
p.s. I dont think the picture will help any, I don't really care if I ever see it and have no need to see it, but I also dont think it will hurt anything politically. |
Do you think you off the cuff decision is more valid than the opinion of people who have studied these issues for a lifetime and have thought long and hard on this question, balancing the many, many threads they have seen? In a true democracy your off the cuff feeling has the same weight as their considered opinion, but could you thinking be influenced by listening to more informed people, or has your mind been made up? |
So confused by your comment, could be that I am very tired, but I didnt make a decision, I said I dont think it will help but I dont think it will hurt either, maybe that wasnt clear enough, reading it again even I am confused. I meant by it that I can see both the positives and the negatives for showing the image and not showing the image. I was trying to offer possible perspectives from not just the experts but the people it impacts, which is more then just the extremists in those countries.
Anyway not sure which people who have studied these issues for a lifetime you are referring to, but I am going to take a stab in the dark and say that those people cant decide either as a single group. If it was so cut and dry, you wouldn't be hearing from experts all over the place saying different things and offering different answers. Not to mention, this is not your typical situation.
I would also like to point out, as I seem to be a tad something tonight, that what we think we know, what the experts think they know is not always the way it is, even after studying for many years or a lifetime, its limited to the information we have at the moment but can change. Like hey, once the world was flat! Once the sun revolved around the earth. Ok yes, those are silly comparisons, but it was all my mind could come up with at this hour. :)
This is one of those topics, where you will always have good reasons for and against. There is no 'perfect' answer. |
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05/07/2011 03:48:59 AM · #82 |
Originally posted by FireBird:
I'd like to see those lifetime studied opinions. Unfortunately the ones pontificating in the news aren't them. :) |
Read a bit of Assaf Moghadam's stuff he teaches on the roots of terrorism from a policy viewpoint at Harvard's Kennedy School, and from a more practical view point at West Point. The guy knows his stuff. |
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05/07/2011 09:14:51 AM · #83 |
Originally posted by FireBird:
As for revolution in a nuclear armed country, they don't have a delivery system to threaten us directly. They can harm those that really are most like themselves: Muslims. |
You do know they have airplanes and boats, right? If determined people can smuggle illegal drugs into the country by the ton, they can smuggle in a warhead, too. They can also target our troops in Afghanistan directly. |
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05/07/2011 04:24:27 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by FireBird:
As for revolution in a nuclear armed country, they don't have a delivery system to threaten us directly. They can harm those that really are most like themselves: Muslims. |
You do know they have airplanes and boats, right? If determined people can smuggle illegal drugs into the country by the ton, they can smuggle in a warhead, too. They can also target our troops in Afghanistan directly. |
They have those things now.
They're already pissed off enough to kill. Showing a picture that pisses off a few more isn't going to magically increase their capability to acquire and deliver weapons like that.
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05/07/2011 07:37:24 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
You do know they have airplanes and boats, right? |
Oh jeezzz, no I didn't know that. Do you have pictures of their boats and airplanes? I'd like to see that. Wow.
Originally posted by scalvert:
If determined people can smuggle illegal drugs into the country by the ton, they can smuggle in a warhead, too.
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Then tell me this: They've hated our guts as a country for well over a decade now, why haven't they smuggled a warhead in yet????
Originally posted by scalvert:
They can also target our troops in Afghanistan directly. |
They already do. So what's your point?
If you're going to continue to try the cultivate the image of an elitist intellectual, you
need to spruce up your act. You're starting to contradict yourself. |
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05/07/2011 08:56:57 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by FireBird:
As for revolution in a nuclear armed country, they don't have a delivery system to threaten us directly. They can harm those that really are most like themselves: Muslims. |
You do know they have airplanes and boats, right? If determined people can smuggle illegal drugs into the country by the ton, they can smuggle in a warhead, too. They can also target our troops in Afghanistan directly. |
They have those things now.
They're already pissed off enough to kill. Showing a picture that pisses off a few more isn't going to magically increase their capability to acquire and deliver weapons like that. |
No. But pissing off a few more can end up killing a few more of the good guys. Whether it's military or civilians. Even if it's only one person more -- that's too high of a price just so people can see a photo. You want to look at a photo? Go look at the fake one. There is no reason to chance more deaths over a photograph.
Message edited by author 2011-05-07 20:57:17. |
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05/07/2011 09:05:54 PM · #87 |
I bet the fake one pisses them off just like the real one....so just show the real one.
You may not see it now but you can bet your schweet ass you'll see it in October 2012.
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by FireBird:
As for revolution in a nuclear armed country, they don't have a delivery system to threaten us directly. They can harm those that really are most like themselves: Muslims. |
You do know they have airplanes and boats, right? If determined people can smuggle illegal drugs into the country by the ton, they can smuggle in a warhead, too. They can also target our troops in Afghanistan directly. |
They have those things now.
They're already pissed off enough to kill. Showing a picture that pisses off a few more isn't going to magically increase their capability to acquire and deliver weapons like that. |
No. But pissing off a few more can end up killing a few more of the good guys. Whether it's military or civilians. Even if it's only one person more -- that's too high of a price just so people can see a photo. You want to look at a photo? Go look at the fake one. There is no reason to chance more deaths over a photograph. |
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05/07/2011 09:06:43 PM · #88 |
Originally posted by FireBird:
They've hated our guts as a country for well over a decade now, why haven't they smuggled a warhead in yet???? |
You have an interesting (and warped) view of the country. Some of the people that a photo would potentially inflame already hate us, but the ones in custody of nuclear warheads currently allowing us access to supply routes do not. The fundamentalist zealots willing to be martyred don't have a warhead to smuggle.
Originally posted by FireBird:
Originally posted by scalvert:
They can also target our troops in Afghanistan directly. |
They already do. So what's your point? |
Pakistan does not target our troops in Afghanistan. Conflating some of the fringe elements within that country with Pakistan itself is as nutty as saying Afghanistan targets our troops directly. |
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05/07/2011 09:13:05 PM · #89 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Showing a picture that pisses off a few more isn't going to magically increase their capability to acquire and deliver weapons like that. |
Um, yeah... that's exactly what it can do: offend the general population to the point that they rise against a government in possession of nuclear weapons. Abracadabra... fundamentalists on an anti-American mandate acquire WMDs. |
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05/07/2011 09:23:40 PM · #90 |
Never happen.....if it did start, Obama would kick some rebel ass.
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Showing a picture that pisses off a few more isn't going to magically increase their capability to acquire and deliver weapons like that. |
Um, yeah... that's exactly what it can do: offend the general population to the point that they rise against a government in possession of nuclear weapons. Abracadabra... fundamentalists on an anti-American mandate acquire WMDs. |
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05/07/2011 09:25:48 PM · #91 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
No. But pissing off a few more can end up killing a few more of the good guys. Whether it's military or civilians. Even if it's only one person more -- that's too high of a price just so people can see a photo. You want to look at a photo? Go look at the fake one. There is no reason to chance more deaths over a photograph. |
Given our foreign policy over the last 60 years I doubt many foreigners will buy that reasoning...
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05/07/2011 09:50:14 PM · #92 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by vawendy:
No. But pissing off a few more can end up killing a few more of the good guys. Whether it's military or civilians. Even if it's only one person more -- that's too high of a price just so people can see a photo. You want to look at a photo? Go look at the fake one. There is no reason to chance more deaths over a photograph. |
Given our foreign policy over the last 60 years I doubt many foreigners will buy that reasoning... |
yeah... I'm still trying to figure that one out. Looking at everything we've done in the last 60 years really makes me wonder... |
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05/07/2011 09:56:14 PM · #93 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Showing a picture that pisses off a few more isn't going to magically increase their capability to acquire and deliver weapons like that. |
Um, yeah... that's exactly what it can do: offend the general population to the point that they rise against a government in possession of nuclear weapons. Abracadabra... fundamentalists on an anti-American mandate acquire WMDs. |
Make sure the tinfoil is completely wrapped around your head...no gaps. |
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05/07/2011 10:21:55 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
yeah... I'm still trying to figure that one out. Looking at everything we've done in the last 60 years really makes me wonder... |
Are you approving or disapproving of US foreign policy?
Message edited by author 2011-05-07 22:22:19. |
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05/07/2011 10:29:01 PM · #95 |
I was lost too bro.
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by vawendy:
yeah... I'm still trying to figure that one out. Looking at everything we've done in the last 60 years really makes me wonder... |
Are you approving or disapproving of US foreign policy? |
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05/07/2011 11:36:54 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Make sure the tinfoil is completely wrapped around your head...no gaps. |
Oooh, thanks. That's not my area of expertise, so now I know who to contact if someone asks for advice on tinfoil hats. :-) |
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05/08/2011 01:18:35 AM · #97 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Make sure the tinfoil is completely wrapped around your head...no gaps. |
Oooh, thanks. That's not my area of expertise, so now I know who to contact if someone asks for advice on tinfoil hats. :-) |
Basic physics.
If you're going to continue thinking that way you really should learn some new skills. |
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05/08/2011 11:03:53 AM · #98 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Make sure the tinfoil is completely wrapped around your head...no gaps. |
Oooh, thanks. That's not my area of expertise, so now I know who to contact if someone asks for advice on tinfoil hats. :-) |
Basic physics.
If you're going to continue thinking that way you really should learn some new skills. |
If you're going to continue posting, you might want to conduct a search of the scientific references in the subject first -- researchers at MIT pretty much debunked the foil hat method of intellectual protection some six years ago; results posted here.
I guess you'll just have to come up with a new way to insult those with whom you disagree. |
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05/08/2011 11:42:24 AM · #99 |
All the demonstrations that I saw during the week were (in Islamic) countries were anti-US - Pro-Osama.
My first guess is that there were Pro-US marches but not covered as much as the anti-US marches.
My second guess is that there were no pro-US marches for the AP to cover.
Why does it seem (at least to me) that all the street demonstrations were Pro-Osama? |
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05/08/2011 11:44:45 AM · #100 |
I'm glad you jumped in when you did... scalvert is not capable of taking care of herself on these forums :-p
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Make sure the tinfoil is completely wrapped around your head...no gaps. |
Oooh, thanks. That's not my area of expertise, so now I know who to contact if someone asks for advice on tinfoil hats. :-) |
Basic physics.
If you're going to continue thinking that way you really should learn some new skills. |
If you're going to continue posting, you might want to conduct a search of the scientific references in the subject first -- researchers at MIT pretty much debunked the foil hat method of intellectual protection some six years ago; results posted here.
I guess you'll just have to come up with a new way to insult those with whom you disagree. |
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