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05/06/2011 05:35:14 PM · #51 |
LOL...thanks...however...it should have said BRB...29 badass seals are dropping through my roof. I have to go get my AK and defend myself in the name of God.
Originally posted by robs:
Here ya go... The facebook page for him just before.....
Linkie |
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05/06/2011 06:03:13 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
How do you know they're the bad guys? |
Americans expressing a desire to parade around the corpse of a vanquished enemy are certainly no better than a terrorist doing the same with a beheading victim, but the vast majority of Americans (and Muslims) don't share that extremist mentality. |
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05/06/2011 06:16:46 PM · #53 |
I don't want it paraded around...just seen by the public in a photo.
I want to see it and that does not lower me to the level of a TERRORIST !
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spork99:
How do you know they're the bad guys? |
Americans expressing a desire to parade around the corpse of a vanquished enemy are certainly no better than a terrorist doing the same with a beheading victim, but the vast majority of Americans (and Muslims) don't share that extremist mentality. |
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05/06/2011 06:42:18 PM · #54 |
I don't know if this is true and haven't tried to verify it, but I did hear someone a few days ago say that about 75 percent of the victims' family members would like to see a photo. If that's the case, I can certainly understand there being a psychological need on the part of these folks, having nothing to do with bloodlust, and I think it would be a good thing if this need could be accommodated in some way.
Other than that, I can't imagine any good coming from releasing this sort of image to the general public. |
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05/06/2011 07:20:17 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by robs:
Here ya go... The facebook page for him just before.....
Linkie |
Is This The Link That Gives You A Virus? |
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05/06/2011 07:33:50 PM · #56 |
Ah Oh....I clicked on it and got a laugh....now I got a berry berry bad virus.....LOL...come on...anybody who gets a computer virus or malware in the year 2011 is a born loser.
Originally posted by David Ey:
Originally posted by robs:
Here ya go... The facebook page for him just before.....
Linkie |
Is This The Link That Gives You A Virus? |
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05/06/2011 07:45:26 PM · #57 |
Although I didn't have a relative in the WTC, I have over the years watched videos of the event. Not just the CNN, FOX or Discovery Channel programs that watered down the massacre, but actual video of men and women leaping to their deaths. Still photos of this type were released in Time and other magazines. I have a psychological need to see Osama's dead body too. If one does not want to see the desperate victims jumping to their deaths, then don't look at the videos. If one does not want to see Osama's dead body, then don't look at the pics if they are released.
Time heals....I wonder if we would be discussing the Osama death pictures if say...Seals shot him two days after he murdered 3000 innocent people. IMO a lot more people would want to see the dead man.
If I had my way, I would play a 10 minute video of Osama's WTC massacre each night at 10pm on all broadcast stations.......When one thinks of the WTC massacre, it should make you feel the same way today as it did 10 years ago.
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
I don't know if this is true and haven't tried to verify it, but I did hear someone a few days ago say that about 75 percent of the victims' family members would like to see a photo. If that's the case, I can certainly understand there being a psychological need on the part of these folks, having nothing to do with bloodlust, and I think it would be a good thing if this need could be accommodated in some way.
Other than that, I can't imagine any good coming from releasing this sort of image to the general public. |
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05/06/2011 08:41:02 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
I don't know if this is true and haven't tried to verify it, but I did hear someone a few days ago say that about 75 percent of the victims' family members would like to see a photo. If that's the case, I can certainly understand there being a psychological need on the part of these folks, having nothing to do with bloodlust, and I think it would be a good thing if this need could be accommodated in some way.
Other than that, I can't imagine any good coming from releasing this sort of image to the general public. |
Yeah, just as watching executions isn't about the bloodlust.... |
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05/06/2011 08:44:44 PM · #59 |
Many people watch executions...not including the one's in CHARGE of the execution, there are family members of the victims of the condemned person that would like to watch....are they simply bloodthirsty?
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
I don't know if this is true and haven't tried to verify it, but I did hear someone a few days ago say that about 75 percent of the victims' family members would like to see a photo. If that's the case, I can certainly understand there being a psychological need on the part of these folks, having nothing to do with bloodlust, and I think it would be a good thing if this need could be accommodated in some way.
Other than that, I can't imagine any good coming from releasing this sort of image to the general public. |
Yeah, just as watching executions isn't about the bloodlust.... |
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05/06/2011 08:51:41 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
I don't know if this is true and haven't tried to verify it, but I did hear someone a few days ago say that about 75 percent of the victims' family members would like to see a photo |
I have trouble believing that number. I was acquainted with a few people on flight 93, and one family that I know of was very involved in âSept. 11 Families for Peaceful Tomorrows.â I would bet long odds that while they are thrilled to have the man who murdered their loved ones dead, they feel no need to see Bin Ladden's face on the nightly news ever again, bullet holed or not.
The Taliban wants to see them, and that is reason enough to never release them. |
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05/06/2011 08:56:23 PM · #61 |
I don't buy the "it will embolden the enemy" idea. These terrorists and extremists fly off the handle all the time. They put out death warrants on editorial artists that draw Mohammad with a black eye. To them, a drawing of Mohammad with a black eye is just as bad as a picture of dead Osama.
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
I don't know if this is true and haven't tried to verify it, but I did hear someone a few days ago say that about 75 percent of the victims' family members would like to see a photo |
I have trouble believing that number. I was acquainted with a few people on flight 93, and one family that I know of was very involved in âSept. 11 Families for Peaceful Tomorrows.â I would bet long odds that while they are thrilled to have the man who murdered their loved ones dead, they feel no need to see Bin Ladden's face on the nightly news ever again, bullet holed or not.
The Taliban wants to see them, and that is reason enough to never release them. |
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05/06/2011 09:01:24 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
I don't buy the "it will embolden the enemy" idea. They put out death warrants on editorial artists that draw Mohammad with a black eye. To them, a drawing of Mohammad with a black eye is just as bad as a picture of dead Osama. |
You just contradicted yourself. |
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05/06/2011 09:04:06 PM · #63 |
Give me a break....My point was that these nuts want to kill for ANYTHING they consider a crime against their Islamic beliefs. A drawing of Mohammad with a black eye is just as bad as a picture of a dead Osama. I said this in the original post.
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by kenskid:
I don't buy the "it will embolden the enemy" idea. They put out death warrants on editorial artists that draw Mohammad with a black eye. To them, a drawing of Mohammad with a black eye is just as bad as a picture of dead Osama. |
You just contradicted yourself. |
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05/06/2011 09:05:33 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
Many people watch executions...not including the one's in CHARGE of the execution, there are family members of the victims of the condemned person that would like to watch....are they simply bloodthirsty?
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
I don't know if this is true and haven't tried to verify it, but I did hear someone a few days ago say that about 75 percent of the victims' family members would like to see a photo. If that's the case, I can certainly understand there being a psychological need on the part of these folks, having nothing to do with bloodlust, and I think it would be a good thing if this need could be accommodated in some way.
Other than that, I can't imagine any good coming from releasing this sort of image to the general public. |
Yeah, just as watching executions isn't about the bloodlust.... |
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Yes. It is eye for an eye brutality.
There is no righteous war. In fact, the very existence of such an idea is excruciatingly dangerous. I accept the need for defense, but this certainly does not make the killing itself right, in any sense, either. A glorification is a glorification, we should not be pleased that the result we came upon required bloodshed, it is merely a testament to how little we have "civilized" ourselves through history. That the same practices of yore are undertaken, under the guise of being just because they are sanctioned, is in some ways more disturbing, and I do not support this.
Resorting to killing an enemy is no more a success for civilization than it is for the deceased, it illustrates a fundamental breakdown and failure. |
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05/06/2011 09:15:50 PM · #65 |
I can understand how you feel. However, I've been watching terrorists since the 1972 massacre of Israeli Olympic Team....and all throughout my life. I'm bitter and an eye for an eye suits me fine.
Obama did the right thing....put the attack team on them with orders to KILL. The CURRENT story is that only one shot was fired by the scum terrorists and it wasn't from Osama. The shooter was killed instantly. Osama could have been taken alive...thank God he was NOT.
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
Originally posted by kenskid:
Many people watch executions...not including the one's in CHARGE of the execution, there are family members of the victims of the condemned person that would like to watch....are they simply bloodthirsty?
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
I don't know if this is true and haven't tried to verify it, but I did hear someone a few days ago say that about 75 percent of the victims' family members would like to see a photo. If that's the case, I can certainly understand there being a psychological need on the part of these folks, having nothing to do with bloodlust, and I think it would be a good thing if this need could be accommodated in some way.
Other than that, I can't imagine any good coming from releasing this sort of image to the general public. |
Yeah, just as watching executions isn't about the bloodlust.... |
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Yes. It is eye for an eye brutality.
There is no righteous war. In fact, the very existence of such an idea is excruciatingly dangerous. I accept the need for defense, but this certainly does not make the killing itself right, in any sense, either. A glorification is a glorification, we should not be pleased that the result we came upon required bloodshed, it is merely a testament to how little we have "civilized" ourselves through history. That the same practices of yore are undertaken, under the guise of being just because they are sanctioned, is in some ways more disturbing, and I do not support this.
Resorting to killing an enemy is no more a success for civilization than it is for the deceased, it illustrates a fundamental breakdown and failure. |
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05/06/2011 10:21:21 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
Give me a break....My point was that these nuts want to kill for ANYTHING they consider a crime against their Islamic beliefs. A drawing of Mohammad with a black eye is just as bad as a picture of a dead Osama. I said this in the original post.
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by kenskid:
I don't buy the "it will embolden the enemy" idea. They put out death warrants on editorial artists that draw Mohammad with a black eye. To them, a drawing of Mohammad with a black eye is just as bad as a picture of dead Osama. |
You just contradicted yourself. |
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You're still contradicting yourself. You don't buy that a group that kills for anything they consider a crime against their beliefs would be incited to more violence by posting a picture that you claim is just as bad as a drawing of Mohammad that provokes death warrants. It's like not buying that hornets will attack you if you poke their nest with a golf club that's just as bad as poking their nest with a stick. |
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05/06/2011 10:26:49 PM · #67 |
A drawing of Mohammad will illicit the same response as a photo of a Dead Osama. IMO it won't matter one bit if the terrorists see Dead Osama....they want to kill us anyway...the photo isn't going to matter. They would want to kill me for saying Mohammad's beard is ugly with the same extreme prejudice as if I showed them a Dead Osama.
You can keep saying I'm contradicting myself if you like. It's really quite amusing.
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by kenskid:
Give me a break....My point was that these nuts want to kill for ANYTHING they consider a crime against their Islamic beliefs. A drawing of Mohammad with a black eye is just as bad as a picture of a dead Osama. I said this in the original post.
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by kenskid:
I don't buy the "it will embolden the enemy" idea. They put out death warrants on editorial artists that draw Mohammad with a black eye. To them, a drawing of Mohammad with a black eye is just as bad as a picture of dead Osama. |
You just contradicted yourself. |
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You're still contradicting yourself. You don't buy that a group that kills for anything they consider a crime against their beliefs would be incited to more violence by posting a picture that you claim is just as bad as a drawing of Mohammad that provokes death warrants. It's like not buying that hornets will attack you if you poke their nest with a golf club that's just as bad as poking their nest with a stick. |
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05/06/2011 10:36:01 PM · #68 |
| Not as amusing as your ignorance on the matter or your comical use of the word "illicit." Priceless. |
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05/06/2011 10:40:00 PM · #69 |
No...I'm not very good with words...hell, I don't even use an an online dictionary when posting here. If I recall, my ACT score in English was in the 'hood of 16 or so !
However, if attacking my English floats your boat and it helps you to feel you defeated me, then more power to ya ! (Is "ya" a word?)
Edit: Elicit - thanks...I learned something new by posting here. I bet I would get a 17 now !
Edit: When news first broke of the Killing of Osama, I kept transposing Obama with Osama all over my Facebook page. I didn't even realize it until about 50 people messaged me !
Originally posted by scalvert:
Not as amusing as your ignorance on the matter or your comical use of the word "illicit." Priceless. |
Message edited by author 2011-05-06 23:04:12. |
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05/06/2011 11:00:02 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spork99:
How do you know they're the bad guys? |
Americans expressing a desire to parade around the corpse of a vanquished enemy are certainly no better than a terrorist doing the same with a beheading victim, but the vast majority of Americans (and Muslims) don't share that extremist mentality. |
It's not his corpse we're talking about, is it? It's an image of it.
There's a big difference between dragging corpses through the streets, burning them, then hanging them from a bridge and showing a picture of one dead asshole.
As for not releasing the picture for fear of "provoking" the terrorists...We're way beyond provoking them, in fact, I thought we were at war with them, you know, shooting them and stuff. Can you imagine FDR timidly not wanting to provoke the Nazis during WWII because they might attack or not play nicey nice?
Message edited by author 2011-05-06 23:22:23. |
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05/06/2011 11:22:39 PM · #71 |
"shooting them and stuff" LOL....and I think I'm "witty" !
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spork99:
How do you know they're the bad guys? |
Americans expressing a desire to parade around the corpse of a vanquished enemy are certainly no better than a terrorist doing the same with a beheading victim, but the vast majority of Americans (and Muslims) don't share that extremist mentality. |
It's not his corpse we're talking about, is it? It's an image of it.
There's a big difference between dragging corpses through the streets, burning them, then hanging them from a bridge and showing a picture of one dead asshole.
As for not releasing the picture for fear of "provoking" the terrorists...We're way beyond provoking them, in fact, I thought we were at war with them, you know, shooting them and stuff. |
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05/07/2011 12:50:50 AM · #72 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
There's a big difference between dragging corpses through the streets, burning them, then hanging them from a bridge and showing a picture of one dead asshole. |
Unless you were there, it's images in both cases. More importantly, the bad guys do it to instill horror among their enemies and to recruit new terrorists for their cause. You can't terrorize suicide bombers with the threat of death, and America is supposed to be above the barbarism we decry when a terrorist releases a beheading video or photo of a dead captive. Al Qaeda has already acknowledged that he's dead, so what's the point? The guy is history. If you accept that, then justice is served. If you don't, then the birther lunatics have amply demonstrated that releasing a document won't change anything.
Originally posted by Spork99:
As for not releasing the picture for fear of "provoking" the terrorists...We're way beyond provoking them, in fact, I thought we were at war with them, you know, shooting them and stuff. Can you imagine FDR timidly not wanting to provoke the Nazis during WWII because they might attack or not play nicey nice? |
Such a simple-minded view. Even when groups are already at war, overt provocation makes the situation much worse (see North Korea). Not only would it justify new waves of terrorism recruits (dramatically increase the number of people we have to shoot and stuff), it would also create major issues with Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia and other sensitive allies. Though you may cast a doubtful eye at Pakistan's sincerity as an ally, we still need access to their supply routes to Afghanistan. A graphic photo depicting the brutal demise of a prominent, though not necessarily loved, Muslim at the hands of Americans would at best inflame tensions among people we're NOT at war with. At worst, it could trigger an anti-American fundamentalist revolution in a nuclear armed country.
Message edited by author 2011-05-07 00:52:47. |
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05/07/2011 01:36:41 AM · #73 |
For over a day they where broadcasting the fake photos (that the people of those nations thought were real) for a short time, it did not incite much of anything, for those people (not extremists) they were just as happy to have the proof he was dead, it was a world wide collective sigh, sure there are always going to be radicals who will be able to take anything we do and try to turn it against us. Post the picture.. how dare you, dont post the picture.. its a cover up, dont shoot him.. whats taking you so long, shoot him... what gives you the right.
Also remember there are scores of people being repressed, not being told the truth to keep then in fear. They still live in fear, or uncertainty. Not saying a simple picture will fix any of that, but it might not hurt (funny as I dont know the answer either).
All I am saying is, as with most of our discussions on here, lol, there are almost as many ways to look at it as there are people to voice them. We live in our shoes and can not truly begin to understand what it is like in their shoes. I wonder how many of those civilians are wondering, is he really dead, could this be the start of some sort of freedom, I would guess probably more then those that are thinking, lets go kill some Americans. Many of their soldiers were forced into this, some were bribed, and yes of course some are die hard folks who will kill themselves.
All in all, most of those countries just want some semblance of freedom without tyranny, to be able to feed and take care of their families, and the USA out of their countries so they can live their lives the way they see fit.
All of this of course is just my own personal opinion based on family and friends.
p.s. I dont think the picture will help any, I don't really care if I ever see it and have no need to see it, but I also dont think it will hurt anything politically.
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05/07/2011 02:08:48 AM · #74 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spork99:
There's a big difference between dragging corpses through the streets, burning them, then hanging them from a bridge and showing a picture of one dead asshole. |
Unless you were there, it's images in both cases. More importantly, the bad guys do it to instill horror among their enemies and to recruit new terrorists for their cause. You can't terrorize suicide bombers with the threat of death, and America is supposed to be above the barbarism we decry when a terrorist releases a beheading video or photo of a dead captive. Al Qaeda has already acknowledged that he's dead, so what's the point? The guy is history. If you accept that, then justice is served. If you don't, then the birther lunatics have amply demonstrated that releasing a document won't change anything.
Originally posted by Spork99:
As for not releasing the picture for fear of "provoking" the terrorists...We're way beyond provoking them, in fact, I thought we were at war with them, you know, shooting them and stuff. Can you imagine FDR timidly not wanting to provoke the Nazis during WWII because they might attack or not play nicey nice? |
Such a simple-minded view. Even when groups are already at war, overt provocation makes the situation much worse (see North Korea). Not only would it justify new waves of terrorism recruits (dramatically increase the number of people we have to shoot and stuff), it would also create major issues with Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia and other sensitive allies. Though you may cast a doubtful eye at Pakistan's sincerity as an ally, we still need access to their supply routes to Afghanistan. A graphic photo depicting the brutal demise of a prominent, though not necessarily loved, Muslim at the hands of Americans would at best inflame tensions among people we're NOT at war with. At worst, it could trigger an anti-American fundamentalist revolution in a nuclear armed country. |
You can insult me all you want. If that's all you've got, I feel sorry for you.
It's war, not playtime.
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05/07/2011 02:17:14 AM · #75 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spork99:
There's a big difference between dragging corpses through the streets, burning them, then hanging them from a bridge and showing a picture of one dead asshole. |
Unless you were there, it's images in both cases. More importantly, the bad guys do it to instill horror among their enemies and to recruit new terrorists for their cause. You can't terrorize suicide bombers with the threat of death, and America is supposed to be above the barbarism we decry when a terrorist releases a beheading video or photo of a dead captive. Al Qaeda has already acknowledged that he's dead, so what's the point? The guy is history. If you accept that, then justice is served. If you don't, then the birther lunatics have amply demonstrated that releasing a document won't change anything.
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Again, what do you base your assumption that we're the good guys and they're the bad guys? Because you're on the "good" side?
I simply don't think that any image of war should be withheld...it should be laid out there in all of its ugly, horrifying, graphic reality.
Message edited by author 2011-05-07 02:17:36. |
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