Help with lighting choice - DPChallenge Forums

11/25/2010 09:40:23 PM · #1

Hello,

My wife says she will get me some studio lights for Christmas. I will use to start shooting some "baby" and some indoor Senior shots.

Currently I use SB600 and SB800 with shoot thru and reflect umbrella.

Any suggestions on what I can get for $600 - $1000? I'd like to get something that has a "bulb" on pree-shot to show me how my setup is working.

All suggestions welcome.

I really need help on this b/c I'm not up on all the indoor technology.

Thanks

11/25/2010 10:00:12 PM · #2

Check out Paul Buff Alien Bees and Einsteins. Einsteins are on backorder, but well worth the wait. Alien Bees are less expensive, and a good way to start with studio lights, too. Both have modeling lamps. I've used Alien Bees and their modifiers for years (at a local studio) and bought Einsteins when the time came to have my own lights. Paul Buff products are excellent, the customer service is superb. Check out their PLM (parabolic umbrellas)--I LOVE those.

In the long run, you'd likely be happier with Einsteins, but you can get started with Alien Bee units sooner, at lower cost, so that may be a way to go. Don't have much time right now, but will PM or post some additional considerations on ABs (400 vs 800 vs 1600) relative to Einsteins--maybe tomorrow.

Cheers

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

11/25/2010 10:02:16 PM · #3

Thanks...yes I've looked at the bees however, can you suggest a "package" for me. Two or three lights seems right.

Originally posted by chromeydome:

jvaughn94

Canon EOS-1000D Rebel XS

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

11/25/2010 10:53:43 PM · #4

I'm definitely not an expert but I think a couple of 800 ABs would probably be good for starting out.

tanguera

Nikon D750

11/26/2010 12:45:42 AM · #5

I bought a really nice setup on ebay for about $325. It included 3 monolights, wireless trigger, 3 stands, 3 umbrellas a couple of light boxes, a set of grids and a set of gels, max. 900 watts, 2-3 second refresh. It is not a name brand, and probably won't do for heavy duty shoots. But I wanted something I could practice on and not worry about blowing a fuse or my wallet. It seems to do the job just fine.

Trumpeteer4

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

11/26/2010 02:13:09 AM · #6

Originally posted by kenskid:

Thanks...yes I've looked at the bees however, can you suggest a "package" for me. Two or three lights seems right.

Originally posted by chromeydome:
Check out Paul Buff Alien Bees and Einsteins. Einsteins are on backorder, but well worth the wait. Alien Bees are less expensive, and a good way to start with studio lights, too. Both have modeling lamps. I've used Alien Bees and their modifiers for years (at a local studio) and bought Einsteins when the time came to have my own lights. Paul Buff products are excellent, the customer service is superb. Check out their PLM (parabolic umbrellas)--I LOVE those.

In the long run, you'd likely be happier with Einsteins, but you can get started with Alien Bee units sooner, at lower cost, so that may be a way to go. Don't have much time right now, but will PM or post some additional considerations on ABs (400 vs 800 vs 1600) relative to Einsteins--maybe tomorrow.

Cheers

I have the digibee package, and that works very well as a starter kit, especially if you were to use it in combination with the lights you already have. I'm not sure what you're looking for, but it might be handy to invest in a large soft box in addition to the package. It's not a necessity, but it sure helps. :-)

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

11/26/2010 03:58:36 PM · #7

Choosing between the ABs (400, 800, 1600) was, for me, kind of difficult. A key thing to know about them is that they are each "separated" by 1 stop. In other words, the AB800 is provides 1 stop more light at both the high AND low ends than does the AB400. Same for the 1660 vs 800.

A lot of times folks think, ooh, more power is more better. So they might think the 1600 is the way to go. But for indoor studio work, particularly portraits, it is worth noting that at its lowest setting, the 1600 will be two full stops brighter than will the 400 at its lowest setting.

So it really depends on how you use lighting, how/what you shoot, and some idea of what you might want to do in the future.

While I was waiting for my Einsteins on the backorder queue, I got a bit impatient. I decided to order a single AB, and almost ordered an 800. I thought it over long and hard, and ended up ordering a 400 instead. For close in work, with umbrellas and softboxes it works very well, and an AB800 would not have allowed me to easily do close in, shallow dof (f2.8) work with a shoot thru umbrella just out of frame. The AB400 works very well for that.

If I were buying two ABs for portrait work, I'd likely get one 800 and one 400. If I were getting three, well, the third one wouldn't be a 1600 unless maybe you expect to be doing outdoor work. I'd probably go with two 800s and a 400. But for me that decision was kind difficult, as I wanted more flexibility. So I ended up deciding to go waitlisted for Einsteins. A single Einstein will completely cover the range offered by the 400/800/1600, so the flexibility from that perspective is there. The Einsteins offer a lot of other enhancements and performance improvements over the ABs, but obviously at higher cost. (roughly double). And you have to wait for them. (and wait, and wait some more....)

As for two or three ABs well, you already have a couple speedlights, and if you add radio triggers for them, you can use them in concert with the ABs.

I was always happy with ABs, and I am about 10 times happier with the Einstein. I don't think you can go wrong with either choice. And there is something to be said for getting ABs real fast, getting a lot more shooting done. The wait for Einsteins is measured in months right now, I think. ABs are probably the best option, lower cost, and maybe some $ left for modifiers :-)

I think three ABs gets you a 15% discount on all other items you order from them at the time. Consider the cybersync triggers if you don't already have some sort of trigger system, the PLMs, and I really like the medium and strip softboxes with grids. The grids for the reflector cones are very useful. And a beauty dish with grid is a nice option, too. Those are my most used modifiers.

Sounds like you are going to have a luminous Christmas! Enjoy.

Mick

Canon EOS-5D

11/26/2010 05:00:28 PM · #8

I've been waiting to upgrade my Alien Bees to Einsteins and CyberSyncs. The problem is when they're available I don't have the money, and when I have the money they're not available. :)

I currently have three B400 lights. They work great with the heavy-duty boom stands and Octaboxes. In my garage/studio, I never use the lights at full power. Normally, they're at 3/4 power or less for a main light, and lower for fill or hair lights. The boom arms make the light stands much more versatile. They allow you to put a light or softbox almost anywhere. Unfortunately, they no longer sell them.

I think the B800 or B1600 lights are overkill for a small studio, but you might want them for a larger studio or outdoor work. In a small studio, you'll need to use modifiers to cut down the light to a usable level.

BTW, I may sell my B400's after I upgrade. Whoever buys them will get a great deal too because they're still in virtually new condition.

IMHO, you really can't go wrong with Alien Bees lighting equipment. Solid products backed by excellent customer service.

11/26/2010 05:12:03 PM · #9

Originally posted by Mick:

I've been waiting to upgrade my Alien Bees to Einsteins and CyberSyncs. The problem is when they're available I don't have the money, and when I have the money they're not available. :)

I hear you! I managed to set aside the money when I had it ready to order, placed the order. They don't actually charge you until they ship, so getting your place in line when you can is probably worth it.

11/26/2010 07:44:06 PM · #10

Forgot to mention: Paul Buff has a 60 days no questions asked refund. So if you choose a mix of 400/800s and then discover you want to remix (within 60 days), you can return one or more of them for full refund, or exchange.

11/26/2010 09:00:54 PM · #11

Thanks everyone...looks like I'll look at Bees to go with my sb600 and sb800.

I'll show you when I get them.

fotomann_forever

11/26/2010 09:06:54 PM · #12

To be honest, almost any "kit" will do. AB's are a good choice. Throw in a Vagabond for portable power.
Flashpoints on Adorama are also a good choice.

If you wanna stay truly portable a few for SB800/600 guns are a great choice for Nikon CLS systems.

11/26/2010 09:22:05 PM · #13

I currently have an SB600 and Sb800. I have one stand and umbrella.

For a home studio would my SB600 and 800 be a good standard setup? Should I add one more light to my current setup or go ahead and get two bees?

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

11/26/2010 09:32:51 PM · #14

Also.....The bee says it can be triggered by another "flash" Does anyone know if this is the same as my sb800 setting off my slave 600? For example, is it "smart"..."automatic"...will it adjust itself or is it totally manual?

11/26/2010 09:36:01 PM · #15

Originally posted by kenskid:

Hard to say--depend on how much you use the gear, I suppose. The speedlights eat batteries, and I haven't had much luck with rechargeables lasting long thru a shoot. So there is a recurring cost with speedlights if you are buying lithium batteries for them. On the other hand, you have the CLS system with the speedlights, and you will need triggers for the ABs, and triggers for the speedlights to mix them in. Non-recurring cost for the triggers.

I doubt you'll regret getting a couple bees. But do some tradeoffs, see which feels best to you.

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

11/26/2010 09:38:08 PM · #16

Originally posted by kenskid:

The bees will fire as slaves, however this won't play well with the CLS system, which pre-flashes. If you go full manual on your speedlights, then this could work. I don't think the SB600 has a slave trigger built in, so you would have to use it as the main, let your SB800 become a slave, I think.

SEG

Nikon D7100

11/28/2010 06:32:34 PM · #17

Hope you get a good one Kenny. Let me know how they work for you. I think this may also be my next step.

yakatme

Lytro Illum Light Field Digital

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

12/01/2010 08:34:41 PM · #18

Originally posted by chromeydome:

How does the output of the SB600 compare to the ABs that you compared here?

I have an SB600 and another flash that I recently purchased and haven't opened the box yet. I want to be prepared for most any eventuality including outdoor work and I'm sure that I'll need more than two flashes. What has been mentioned about the AB800 being too powerful for small studio work is helpful, however, I'm considering some ABs to add versatility to what I already have and I wonder how the SB600 compares.

spiritualspatula

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

12/01/2010 09:06:23 PM · #19

Originally posted by yakatme:

Originally posted by chromeydome:
Choosing between the ABs (400, 800, 1600) was, for me, kind of difficult. A key thing to know about them is that they are each "separated" by 1 stop. In other words, the AB800 is provides 1 stop more light at both the high AND low ends than does the AB400. Same for the 1660 vs 800.

How does the output of the SB600 compare to the ABs that you compared here?

I have an SB600 and another flash that I recently purchased and haven't opened the box yet. I want to be prepared for most any eventuality including outdoor work and I'm sure that I'll need more than two flashes. What has been mentioned about the AB800 being too powerful for small studio work is helpful, however, I'm considering some ABs to add versatility to what I already have and I wonder how the SB600 compares.

I've seen it said that the SB800 runs around 60watt/seconds. Compare this to the Alien Bees-
AB400-160ws
AB800-320ws
AB1600-640
Einstein-640 (but has variability down to 2.5ws)
The AB1600 and AB800 throw a lot of light, and their respective minimum power is 20ws and 10ws. Compare this to minimum setting on the SB800, 1/128... and you get 0.46875ws. So yeah... that's over 4 stops less than the AB800 on minimum.
ETA: Keep in mind, too, that you'd need a Vagabond to power these outside. The other thing worth noting is recycle time. Consider this, which is info for the Einstein- "setting the power to around 1/10 power (64WS) will allow frame rates or bursts on the order of five to ten frames per second with excellent frame to frame consistency and extremely sharp action freezing"
The other thing that's different is flash duration, but that's a whole different discussion.

Message edited by author 2010-12-01 21:54:14.

Mick

Canon EOS-5D

12/01/2010 09:30:16 PM · #20

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

Originally posted by yakatme:

Originally posted by chromeydome:
Choosing between the ABs (400, 800, 1600) was, for me, kind of difficult. A key thing to know about them is that they are each "separated" by 1 stop. In other words, the AB800 is provides 1 stop more light at both the high AND low ends than does the AB400. Same for the 1660 vs 800.

How does the output of the SB600 compare to the ABs that you compared here?

I have an SB600 and another flash that I recently purchased and haven't opened the box yet. I want to be prepared for most any eventuality including outdoor work and I'm sure that I'll need more than two flashes. What has been mentioned about the AB800 being too powerful for small studio work is helpful, however, I'm considering some ABs to add versatility to what I already have and I wonder how the SB600 compares.

I've seen it said that the SB800 runs around 60watt/seconds. Compare this to the Alien Bees-
AB400-160ws
AB800-320ws
AB1600-640
Einstein-640 (but has variability down to 2.5ws)
The AB1600 and AB800 throw a lot of light, and their respective minimum power is 20ws and 10ws. Compare this to minimum setting on the SB800, 1/128... and you get 0.46875ws. So yeah... that's over 4 stops less than the AB800 on minimum.

And the color temp of the SB800 is probably slightly different too.

spiritualspatula

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100