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10/16/2010 01:57:57 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
As someone else who suffers an addictive personality type, and has managed to understand and accept who I am, I can no more blame video games for the decline of civilization than I can blame a bullet for the killing of someone rather than the person who pulled the trigger. |
It's not a matter of blaming the bullet -- it's blaming the arms maufacturer who makes and aggressively markets those products rather than something more socially useful. |
Absolutely do not agree with that. Just look around you, everyday of our lives there is an army on the move somewhere. Rather blame those who create a need for armor.
Getting back to the point, destructive, antisocial behavior, by means of the computer game, is much easier tolerated and allowed, even welcomed in our homes. Porn, fortunately not, although less harmful.
BTW, since when did games people played become equated to computer "games"? Games? |
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10/16/2010 02:03:24 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
As someone else who suffers an addictive personality type, and has managed to understand and accept who I am, I can no more blame video games for the decline of civilization than I can blame a bullet for the killing of someone rather than the person who pulled the trigger. |
It's not a matter of blaming the bullet -- it's blaming the arms maufacturer who makes and aggressively markets those products rather than something more socially useful. |
It's the same argument as blaming the bullet. |
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10/16/2010 02:12:32 PM · #28 |
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10/16/2010 02:17:10 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by docpjv:
Getting back to the point, destructive, antisocial behavior, by means of the computer game, is much easier tolerated and allowed, even welcomed in our homes. Porn, fortunately not, although less harmful. |
Well, that's always been the way hasn't it. Sex has always been more of a taboo than violence in the West it seems. Very sad i agree. |
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10/16/2010 02:24:32 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by docpjv:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
As someone else who suffers an addictive personality type, and has managed to understand and accept who I am, I can no more blame video games for the decline of civilization than I can blame a bullet for the killing of someone rather than the person who pulled the trigger. |
It's not a matter of blaming the bullet -- it's blaming the arms maufacturer who makes and aggressively markets those products rather than something more socially useful. |
Absolutely do not agree with that. Just look around you, everyday of our lives there is an army on the move somewhere. Rather blame those who create a need for armor. |
Well, yeah, I guess. The concern is that the exploitation of exceptional violence as "entertainment" inures the participants to the realities of real-workd violence.
U.S. TroopsTraining on Video Games
One of many stories on this page regarding the deliberate blurring of "game" and real violence. |
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10/16/2010 02:50:05 PM · #31 |
I'd like to see a pornographic computer game. Technology has improved to where they could do some really cool stuff in that area.
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10/16/2010 03:01:29 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
I'd like to see a pornographic computer game. Technology has improved to where they could do some really cool stuff in that area. |
Oh, it is out there. Search RapeLay and go for it. Rape as much as one needs or wants. Learn the tricks of the trade in a socially acceptable environment or what? |
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10/16/2010 03:01:34 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
I'd like to see a pornographic computer game. Technology has improved to where they could do some really cool stuff in that area. |
Japan has been developing them for years i'm sure. A particularly seedy one pops up during the show i linked to above. |
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10/16/2010 03:10:11 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by docpjv:
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
I'd like to see a pornographic computer game. Technology has improved to where they could do some really cool stuff in that area. |
Oh, it is out there. Search RapeLay and go for it. Rape as much as one needs or wants. Learn the tricks of the trade in a socially acceptable environment or what? |
Yep, that's the one.
Learn the tricks of the trade in a socially acceptable environment or what?
Well, people are always going to have violent sexual fantasies, male and female, and i don't think there is anything particularly wrong with that when between consenting adults, or, as in this case, a person and a computer. The problem is whether someone would be incited to perform these acts after playing the game. Perhaps a very tiny percentage but i would say that that tiny percentage would very likely commit the acts even without playing the game and would be as incited just by a lone woman in the street, or a female neighbor or fellow office worker.
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10/16/2010 05:15:09 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
I guess I also don't have to tell you that out of these millions of people, there are also thousands that make an incredibly decent living BECAUSE of video games? Not just the people that create, develop, and publish these games, but people that play them. Professionally. People that probably make more money every year than YOU do -- and again -- lead successful, happy, productive lives.
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Well if those people can sleep at night without worrying about the 10% of video game players who's lives are being destroyed than more power to them. In my mind the video game industry is no different than the porn industry. The only benefits of video games and porn are a little self satisfaction and entertainment. The downside of both porn and video games vastly outweighs the benefits. There are other ways to entertain yourself that don't have the same harmful effects.
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Last notes......I am much happier pouring all my obsessive behavior into photography than I was with a drug habit. And having been in a couple threads with  johnnyphoto, it sure seems to me that in some ways he's substituting as well.......8~) |
Hahaha... did you notice how I deactivated my DPC account for the summer? Some of these rant debates can get pretty hard to walk away from. |
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10/16/2010 05:45:08 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
Well if those people can sleep at night without worrying about the 10% of video game players who's lives are being destroyed than more power to them. In my mind the video game industry is no different than the porn industry. The only benefits of video games and porn are a little self satisfaction and entertainment. The downside of both porn and video games vastly outweighs the benefits. There are other ways to entertain yourself that don't have the same harmful effects. |
I'd be very interested to see the data that proves that 10% of video game players lives are being destroyed. Can you point me in the right direction. Seems a bit high to me. Are you sure you are not exaggerating the threat as you've had experience in the past. I do understand that for some ex addicts who have been seemingly weak willed in the past with their addictions and obsessions it can be beneficial to themselves to become almost evangelical in their disdain of their previous vice. I guess the more inflated the danger the better they feel about their lack of will power in succuming to it. Perfectly natural thing to do i imagine.
Message edited by author 2010-10-16 17:48:16. |
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10/16/2010 05:47:01 PM · #37 |
.
double post
Message edited by author 2010-10-16 17:47:41. |
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10/16/2010 05:56:30 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
Well if those people can sleep at night without worrying about the 10% of video game players who's lives are being destroyed than more power to them. In my mind the video game industry is no different than the porn industry. The only benefits of video games and porn are a little self satisfaction and entertainment. The downside of both porn and video games vastly outweighs the benefits. There are other ways to entertain yourself that don't have the same harmful effects. |
You do realize you're writing where game developers can see you... I know at least one who's game is still sold in stores a decade later because it's so awesome. Me. Are you seriously taking me to task for ruining the lives of ten percent of the people who played Diablo II for the last ten years? That I've helped decimate our culture with an admittedly violent hack & slash?
As my mother's teaching me to say...
If you say so.
I'm not losing any sleep.
Not yet anyway... I undoubtedly will when Diablo III ships! 2011 can't come soon enough, for reals!
Message edited by author 2010-10-16 17:58:30. |
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10/16/2010 06:10:06 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Mousie:
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
Well if those people can sleep at night without worrying about the 10% of video game players who's lives are being destroyed than more power to them. In my mind the video game industry is no different than the porn industry. The only benefits of video games and porn are a little self satisfaction and entertainment. The downside of both porn and video games vastly outweighs the benefits. There are other ways to entertain yourself that don't have the same harmful effects. |
You do realize you're writing where game developers can see you... I know at least one who's game is still sold in stores a decade later because it's so awesome. Me. Are you seriously taking me to task for ruining the lives of ten percent of the people who played Diablo II for the last ten years? That I've helped decimate our culture with an admittedly violent hack & slash?
As my mother's teaching me to say...
If you say so.
I'm not losing any sleep.
Not yet anyway... I undoubtedly will when Diablo III ships! 2011 can't come soon enough, for reals! |
Can i just say i LOVED playing Diablo II with my son a few years ago. We used to take it in turns sat at the computer, one being 'navigator' and look out whilst the other was at the controls. We pretty much completed it as well. One of a few games we used to play together. Great stuff. This would have been back in '03 or '04 i guess so he would have been 13-14ish. I'm not really a gamer (i was in my teens with my ZX Spectrum though) but my son still plays occasionally. He's nearly 20 now and studying sound design and composition. Turned into a nice young man. At least he hasn't told me about any extreme violence he's been impelled to do recently. |
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10/16/2010 06:16:17 PM · #40 |
| I'll have to dig through the literature for some of those studies Clive. I've found some damning stuff before. |
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10/16/2010 06:23:45 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'll have to dig through the literature for some of those studies Clive. I've found some damning stuff before. |
Thanks Doc. They sound really interesting. |
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10/16/2010 06:31:58 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
I'd be very interested to see the data that proves that 10% of video game players lives are being destroyed. Can you point me in the right direction. Seems a bit high to me. Are you sure you are not exaggerating the threat as you've had experience in the past. I do understand that for some ex addicts who have been seemingly weak willed in the past with their addictions and obsessions it can be beneficial to themselves to become almost evangelical in their disdain of their previous vice. I guess the more inflated the danger the better they feel about their lack of will power in succuming to it. Perfectly natural thing to do i imagine. |
I was just looking at some stuff online because I was curious. I just did some google searches for "video game addiction studies" and found a few studies that said 1 in 10 adolescents showed addictive behavior. I suppose you could argue that addictions aren't destructive if you really wanted to.
Quotes from: Nearly 1 In 10 Youth Gamers Addicted To Video Games
"The pathological gamers in the study played video games 24 hours per week, about twice as much as non-pathological gamers. They also were more likely to have video game systems in their bedrooms, reported having more trouble paying attention in school, received poorer grades in school, had more health problems, were more likely to feel "addicted," and even stole to support their habit."
"I started studying video game addition in 1999 largely because I didn't believe in it," said Gentile, who is co-author of the book "Violent Video Game Effects on Children and Adolescents: Theory, Research, and Public Policy" (2007, Oxford University Press). "I assumed that parents called it 'addiction' because they didn't understand why their children spent so much time playing. So I measured the way you measure pathological gambling and the way it harms functioning, and was surprised to find that a substantial number of gamers do rise to that level (of pathological addiction)."
Originally posted by Mousie:
You do realize you're writing where game developers can see you... I know at least one who's game is still sold in stores a decade later because it's so awesome. Me. Are you seriously taking me to task for ruining the lives of ten percent of the people who played Diablo II for the last ten years? That I've helped decimate our culture with an admittedly violent hack & slash? |
Our culture loves video games, and we do a really good job of ignoring the problems they create. Considering all the money the industry produces it's no wonder we deny that there are problems. I suppose the CEOs of the tobacco industry and porn industry don't worry about lung cancer or STDs. So I also suppose video game makers don't worry about kids growing up lacking exercise, social skills, etc. It's not your fault those problems exist right? You just make the product available. How people use the product isn't your problem. That's probably what Louis Camilleri tells himself anyways. |
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10/16/2010 06:40:03 PM · #43 |
This study was done by The National Institute on Media and the Family (NIMF), founded by psychologist Dr. David Walsh in 1996 and closed in 2009 [1], was a non-profit organization based in Minneapolis, MN. It was a nonsectarian advocacy group which sought to monitor mass media for content that it deemed is harmful to children and families. The group characterized itself as "an international resource center for cutting-edge research and information" and denied playing any role in media censorship.
On December 6, 2005, The ESRB assigned a failing grade of "F" to NIMF for its seriously flawed Video Game Report Card released the previous week.[7] The ESRB cited inaccuracies, incomplete and misleading statements, omission of material facts, and flawed research as key factors in assigning the failing grade. In addition to the overall failing grade, NIMF was given a demerit for elevating its political and media agenda over their stated concerns for consumer welfare, particularly those of kids and teens.
From wikipedia
There are issues with video games, but there is alot of bad science around the issue.
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10/16/2010 08:51:33 PM · #44 |
It's actually not hard to find citations for the link between aggressive behavior and violent video games. Just do a Google Scholar search for "violence in video games". Here are two examples.
Psychological Science
Volume 12, Issue 5, pages 353ΓΆ€“359, September 2001
Effects of Violent Video Games on Aggressive Behavior, Aggressive Cognition, Aggressive Affect, Physiological Arousal, and Prosocial Behavior: A Meta-Analytic Review of the Scientific Literature
Craig A. Anderson, Brad J. BushmanArticle first published online: 19 MAR 2002
Research on exposure to television and movie violence suggests that playing violent video games will increase aggressive behavior. A meta-analytic review of the video-game research literature reveals that violent video games increase aggressive behavior in children and young adults. Experimental and nonexperimental studies with males and females in laboratory and field settings support this conclusion. Analyses also reveal that exposure to violent video games increases physiological arousal and aggression-related thoughts and feelings. Playing violent video games also decreases prosocial behavior.
The effects of violent video game habits on adolescent hostility, aggressive behaviors, and school performance
References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article.
Douglas A. Gentile, , , a, Paul J. Lynchb, Jennifer Ruh Linderc and David A. Walsha
Abstract
Video games have become one of the favorite activities of American children. A growing body of research is linking violent video game play to aggressive cognitions, attitudes, and behaviors. The first goal of this study was to document the video games habits of adolescents and the level of parental monitoring of adolescent video game use. The second goal was to examine associations among violent video game exposure, hostility, arguments with teachers, school grades, and physical fights. In addition, path analyses were conducted to test mediational pathways from video game habits to outcomes. Six hundred and seven 8th- and 9th-grade students from four schools participated. Adolescents who expose themselves to greater amounts of video game violence were more hostile, reported getting into arguments with teachers more frequently, were more likely to be involved in physical fights, and performed more poorly in school. Mediational pathways were found such that hostility mediated the relationship between violent video game exposure and outcomes. Results are interpreted within and support the framework of the General Aggression Model.
Message edited by author 2010-10-16 20:51:45. |
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10/16/2010 09:02:56 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
I guess I also don't have to tell you that out of these millions of people, there are also thousands that make an incredibly decent living BECAUSE of video games? Not just the people that create, develop, and publish these games, but people that play them. Professionally. People that probably make more money every year than YOU do -- and again -- lead successful, happy, productive lives.
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Well if those people can sleep at night without worrying about the 10% of video game players who's lives are being destroyed than more power to them. In my mind the video game industry is no different than the porn industry. The only benefits of video games and porn are a little self satisfaction and entertainment. The downside of both porn and video games vastly outweighs the benefits. There are other ways to entertain yourself that don't have the same harmful effects. |
Should web designers and the like have trouble sleeping as well? I mean people play those video games and the porn online. It's like huge, I've heard. Maybe you might get a better night's sleep if you logged off the internet?
Message edited by author 2010-10-16 21:04:11.
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10/16/2010 10:13:50 PM · #46 |
Personally I don't think the video games and porn are the disease, they are symptoms of the disease. The disease is the culture of hedonism. That, unfortunately, is not a ship that is going to turn around quickly if you suddenly banned video games or online porn. Somehow we need to teach culture that there are higher goods than the pursuit of pleasure.
(Someone tell Richard the next word out of my mouth does not need to be "Christianity!"...:) We can keep this secular if we want.) |
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10/16/2010 10:30:29 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Personally I don't think the video games and porn are the disease, they are symptoms of the disease. The disease is the culture of hedonism. That, unfortunately, is not a ship that is going to turn around quickly if you suddenly banned video games or online porn. Somehow we need to teach culture that there are higher goods than the pursuit of pleasure.
(Someone tell Richard the next word out of my mouth does not need to be "Christianity!"...:) We can keep this secular if we want.) |
Well of course you want to keep it secular. You save that word for when the discussion about society shifts to something positive like charity...
Btw, if the disease is hedoism how did we contract it?
Message edited by author 2010-10-16 22:32:27.
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10/16/2010 10:36:34 PM · #48 |
| I would say it's partly innate, and party contracted. Rome fell for much the same reason. |
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10/17/2010 12:09:11 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I would say it's partly innate, and party contracted. Rome fell for much the same reason. |
And the French Monarchy, and most other empires ... and so what does that say about this country's attitude towards the world? Seems to me it might provide some validation for the paranoia expressed by our purported "enemies" ... :-( |
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10/17/2010 06:49:00 AM · #50 |
| Are we also including the true Axis of Evil IE Religion, Politics and Economics? |
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