Burning a Bible - DPChallenge Forums

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09/10/2010 11:03:11 AM · #76

Of course if your creed is that literally all other creeds are fallacies, then the best way to spread the word is to do your best to make others stop believing their creed. You guys need to take it to the streets though and gets a signature look. White shirts and bikes are already taken, but maybe you could do something like tweed smoking jackets and pipes and you drive around in SmartCars! That would be sweet!

Cory

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09/10/2010 11:19:34 AM · #77

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Yeah, like openly declaring war on religion would be a good idea... I'm pretty certain there are plenty of zealots out there who would think that it's their duty to wipe such scum from the face of the planet.

Nah, y'all can keep your delusions.. I'd prefer to spread facts only to those who I REALLY give a damn about. And that doesn't include anyone outside of my personal circle.

Although I do like the smoking jackets and smart cars, both would be very much in agreement with my beliefs and aesthetics.

09/10/2010 11:24:18 AM · #78

Originally posted by coryboehne:

Nah, y'all can keep your delusions.. I'd prefer to spread facts only to those who I REALLY give a damn about. And that doesn't include anyone outside of my personal circle.

Although I do like the smoking jackets and smart cars, both would be very much in agreement with my beliefs and aesthetics.

This is the postmodern approach to evangelism. The modern schema of someone like Billy Graham filling a stadium is becoming a thing of the past. The word is spread one-on-one. So don't lose hope, you can still be one of the atheist faithful!

If you're depressed about it you can psych yourself up with some atheist music! :)

09/10/2010 11:26:57 AM · #79

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Of course if your creed is that literally all other creeds are fallacies...

That one's called a proof by example fallacy ("This apple is red, therefore all apples are red," "Jason's opinions are loaded with fallacies, therefore all beliefs are fallacious," etc.).

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09/10/2010 11:37:02 AM · #80

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Of course if your creed is that literally all other creeds are fallacies...

That one's called a proof by example fallacy ("This apple is red, therefore all apples are red," "Jason's opinions are loaded with fallacies, therefore all beliefs are fallacious," etc.).

Preach it brutha! SmartCar hooooooooooo!

Apple iPhone 5

09/10/2010 11:40:09 AM · #81

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Of course if your creed is that literally all other creeds are fallacies...

That one's called a proof by example fallacy ("This apple is red, therefore all apples are red," "Jason's opinions are loaded with fallacies, therefore all beliefs are fallacious," etc.).

Preach it brutha! SmartCar hooooooooooo!

Now you're insulting Atheism on purpose. I say we burn some bibles in retaliation! That'll make you cry.

Matthew

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09/10/2010 11:45:12 AM · #82

I don't like these comments about atheists being fundamentalist. Atheists are usually uncompromising with religionists but that's very different from being fundamental about atheism.

I do believe that religion is idiotic - it takes a certain lack of mental processing power to fail to conclude that any specific religious belief is almost certainly wrong.

Some religionists are otherwise seemingly intelligent - there appears to be a kind of blindness that affects these people in relation to religious belief. I suspect that this is caused by biological susceptibility in humans (primarily a tendency to ascribe purpose to events) combined with an environment in which they are influentially exposed to religion.

Having said that religion and people who believe in religion are idiotic in that respect, I also think that it is stupid to ignore the fact that a lot of people do believe these things and many of them quite passionately.

It is stupid to provoke religionists (regardless of their idiocy) unnecessarily. We know that the Abrahamic religions ascribe different levels of importance to similar shared concepts and that the text of the Koran and treatment of imagery is treated more seriously by Islam than that in Christianity or Judaism. Koran burning is nothing more than deliberate provocation.

It is plain crazy that people should die (as people have done) over whether a book is burnt or not - and it is also crazy that someone should be permitted to cause this entirely foreseeable reaction in order to make a minor and otherwise inconsequential protest as part of the vastly overhyped and misconceived capaign over the WTC mosque.

Having said that, it is important to oppose religionists when they are trying to do things that are themselves harmful to society in the name of their religions (eg make law based solely on religious grounds).

Its also okay to be as vigorous as one may wish on the DPC Rant forum.

Message edited by author 2010-09-10 12:26:18.

Strikeslip

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09/10/2010 11:59:30 AM · #83

Originally posted by Matthew:

...It is plain crazy that people should die (as people have done) over whether a book is burnt or not - and it is also crazy that someone should be permitted to cause this entirely foreseeable reaction in order to make a minor and otherwise inconsequential protest as part of the vastly overhyped and misconceived capaign over the WTC mosque...

Kooks are provoking other kooks. The shame would be if any non-kooks got swept up in their kooky-war.

09/10/2010 12:02:58 PM · #84

You'll have to define your use of "fundamentalist" for me Matthew. I think I may be inserting some things there that you don't mean to insert so I thought I'd ask.

Of course your comment about religion being "idiotic" is a typical backhanded insult that atheists feel perfectly comfortable making, but I'm used to that and have a thick skin about it.

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09/10/2010 12:19:10 PM · #85

Originally posted by JH:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Preach it brutha! SmartCar hooooooooooo!

Now you're insulting Atheism on purpose.

He's only blabbering insanities. Disbelief of gods can be no more insulted or prosthelytized than disbelief of fairies or leprechauns.

Louis

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09/10/2010 12:19:44 PM · #86

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Of course if your creed is that literally all other creeds are fallacies, then the best way to spread the word is to do your best to make others stop believing their creed.

You aren't listening. I don't care what you believe. Nobody wants to stop anyone believing anything. That's your job. You are "called" to have others abandon their beliefs to subscribe to yours. Stop confusing a complete lack of interest in fantasy with a built-in requirement to proselytize.

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09/10/2010 12:20:53 PM · #87

Originally posted by Matthew:

I do believe that religion is idiotic - it takes a certain lack of metal processing power to figure out that any specific religious belief is almost certainly wrong.

I don't lack any metal processing power. I used to work at an iron factory!

Spelling mistake aside, you might want to reread what you wrote there. I don't think you communicated the idea that you wanted to.

Matthew

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

09/10/2010 12:23:52 PM · #88

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Of course your comment about religion being "idiotic" is a typical backhanded insult that atheists feel perfectly comfortable making, but I'm used to that and have a thick skin about it.

I tried to use a word that was not rude but I recognise that some people will be offended. I'm not sure what other short word to use. Slippy's "kooky" is more pleasant but not quite right for my sense. I think that it is probably the concept, not the word, that will unavoidably cause offence.

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

You'll have to define your use of "fundamentalist" for me Matthew. I think I may be inserting some things there that you don't mean to insert so I thought I'd ask.

I was not trying to be too precise here: the general idea that atheists can be unwaveringly wed to a creed does not ring true. Atheists can aggressively attack other beliefs for an absence of intellectual rigour and accordingly oppose their plans to impose religious beliefs on others, but there is no competing clarion call to arms that can be used to equate strong atheists with religious fundamentalists.

Matthew

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09/10/2010 12:24:53 PM · #89

Originally posted by johnnyphoto:

Originally posted by Matthew:

I do believe that religion is idiotic - it takes a certain lack of metal processing power to figure out that any specific religious belief is almost certainly wrong.

I don't lack any metal processing power. I used to work at an iron factory!

Spelling mistake aside, you might want to reread what you wrote there. I don't think you communicated the idea that you wanted to.

09/10/2010 12:33:09 PM · #90

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Of course if your creed is that literally all other creeds are fallacies, then the best way to spread the word is to do your best to make others stop believing their creed.

You aren't listening. I don't care what you believe. Nobody wants to stop anyone believing anything. That's your job. You are "called" to have others abandon their beliefs to subscribe to yours. Stop confusing a complete lack of interest in fantasy with a built-in requirement to proselytize.

Christians are called to preach the Gospel. They are not called to force people to abandon their beliefs and believe the Gospel. That only happens by an individual's choosing, and by the grace of God.

09/10/2010 12:35:07 PM · #91

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Of course if your creed is that literally all other creeds are fallacies, then the best way to spread the word is to do your best to make others stop believing their creed.

You aren't listening. Stop confusing a complete lack of interest in fantasy with a built-in requirement to proselytize.

He has a complete lack of interest in listening. By Jason's bizarre personal definition, heliocentricity, disbelief in Nessie, evolution, and the moon landing are all religions- each with their high priests, books, zealots and missionaries trying to spread the word by shaking the beliefs of others. LOL! Does anybody really care if you believe in unicorns? Probably not. They won't come knocking on your door, send you flyers in the mail, or invite you to the First United Church of No Unicorns, however they WILL point out logical fallacies and mock absurdities when posted in a public forum.

09/10/2010 12:39:01 PM · #92

Originally posted by johnnyphoto:

Originally posted by Louis:
Stop confusing a complete lack of interest in fantasy with a built-in requirement to proselytize.

Christians are called to preach the Gospel.

You concur. Proselytize and preach are synonyms.

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09/10/2010 12:41:00 PM · #93

Originally posted by Matthew:

OK fair enough. I don't mean this in a retalitorial way, but I find this position to lack an intellectual backbone as well as being blind. To aggressively attack other beliefs and then claim to not have any beliefs yourself so as not to open yourself up for counterattack? Spineless. Or blind. Everybody has beliefs and lives their life by them. At times the atheist seems like a playground bully who runs around slapping other kids and then when someone actually busts his lip open can't believe the audacity of the kid who did it. (I'm not pointing at you here in specific.)

Of course atheism isn't REALLY a religion (I'm not sure the guys above caught that I don't actually believe that), but if often acts like one. In fact, the New Atheist acts so much like a religious person as to often blur the borders beyond recognition. Louis keeps claiming he doesn't care what I believe, yet he's always here to correct me. Why should he if he doesn't care that I'm "wrong"? He obviously does care because he's afraid my beliefs will push into his life and affect him. He then pushes back. That's fine and completely his right. BUT, it's hypocricy to think that his pushing back is justified while everybody else's is delusional thinking based on fairy tales and mumbo-jumbo.

Louis

Nikon D800

09/10/2010 12:51:38 PM · #94

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Louis keeps claiming he doesn't care what I believe, yet he's always here to correct me.

But I don't care. I couldn't care less. Please, please believe anything you like. Whatever will make you a happier person. I really don't know how much more plain I can be. I just don't give a shit what nuttiness people believe. A good friend was a famous believer in alien abduction, until my non-belief got the better of the friendship. It didn't matter to me, but it sure as hell mattered to them.

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

He then pushes back. That's fine and completely his right. BUT, it's hypocricy to think that his pushing back is justified while everybody else's is delusional thinking based on fairy tales and mumbo-jumbo.

Really? Are you justifying your stated call by saying you have the right to proselytize if I have the right to refute it, if I have the right to deny something I find impossible to believe? Did I misunderstand? I certainly hope so.

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09/10/2010 12:52:42 PM · #95

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by johnnyphoto:

Originally posted by Louis:
Stop confusing a complete lack of interest in fantasy with a built-in requirement to proselytize.

Christians are called to preach the Gospel.

You concur. Proselytize and preach are synonyms.

Sorry I don't have Scalvert's Thesaurus: 3rd Edition.

Preaching is simply proclaiming the Gospel. Preaching sometimes causes someone to convert, but preaching and proselytizing are not the same. Everyone who is preached to is not automatically converted, just ask any preacher.

Louis

Nikon D800

09/10/2010 01:07:42 PM · #96

Hoo-boy.

09/10/2010 01:17:58 PM · #97

Originally posted by johnnyphoto:

Originally posted by scalvert:
Proselytize and preach are synonyms.

Sorry I don't have Scalvert's Thesaurus: 3rd Edition.

Preaching is simply proclaiming the Gospel. Preaching sometimes causes someone to convert, but preaching and proselytizing are not the same. Everyone who is preached to is not automatically converted, just ask any preacher.

Do you think everyone who is proselytized to is automatically converted?

09/10/2010 01:54:59 PM · #98

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
He then pushes back. That's fine and completely his right. BUT, it's hypocricy to think that his pushing back is justified while everybody else's is delusional thinking based on fairy tales and mumbo-jumbo.

Really? Are you justifying your stated call by saying you have the right to proselytize if I have the right to refute it, if I have the right to deny something I find impossible to believe? Did I misunderstand? I certainly hope so.

I think you did misunderstand. I'm saying everybody has the same right. I'm also saying that everybody who approaches someone with hopes of converting their position is, in essence, proselytizing. Finally I'm saying that I find it hypocritical when people who are obviously aggressive about their position are annoyed at the aggression of others.

09/10/2010 02:18:01 PM · #99

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I'm also saying that everybody who approaches someone with hopes of converting their position is, in essence, proselytizing.

You equate Christopher Columbus, James Randi, and hostage negotiators with Ahmadinejad and Fred Phelps? Interesting. Scary crazy, but interesting.