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06/25/2004 09:44:46 AM · #26 |
You've had a lot of great advice here. I'll second (or whatever number it's up to now) that if budget is a concern, go with the 300d while you are learning dSLR. I've heard it a number of times, invest in the glass - and the 300d will allow you to spend more on lenses.
As for shooting sports, I use my 300d to shoot motocross (gallery here) and it works great. I did notice a difference in capability and image quality after I started using the 100-400mm (100-400 on B&H).
Definately look at your options, once you go with a system (Canon or Nikon) you'll pretty much want to stick with it due to the lenses you'll build up over time.
Once you've had more practice, your stable of lenses will work great with the 10D or any other Canon SLR body you choose to upgrade to.
I don't notice any features I'm missing by using the 300d and setting a custom white balance is fast and easy on the Rebel.
Good Luck! |
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06/25/2004 10:08:57 AM · #27 |
| 10 D has a better metering capabilites,Rebel's fixed spot sometimes is not enough ! |
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06/25/2004 11:32:53 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by garlic:
Originally posted by TomH1000:
Theres more out there then just Canon and Nikon. For me the E-1 was right for me. It may not be right for everyone.
Tom |
You are right Tom, there is more than only Canon and Nikon but if you take a look at quiality and price and avalible lenses and accesories then it isnt very hard to see why most of us choose them.
But thx for pointing it out. |
Quiality and price? Humm not sure what you mean here. Build quiality? The E-1 as far as build is pro all the way and right up there with the 1D Mark II. Image quiality? To each there own as far as that goes but except for a little more noise at ISO 800 and above I would put an E-1 image next to any other camera as far as quiality. How about metering? The E-1 is right on almost everytime. Custom white balance? What do you have to do on the 10D. One button on the E-1 and I am ready to shoot in less the 3 seconds but to tell the truth the auto white ballance right on most of the time. Now lets talk about lenses. Yea your right there are more lenses out there for Canon and Nikon. Nice big and heavy lenses you can load up your bag with but for me 28 - 400mm f2.8-3.5 range with only 2 lenses and half the size and weight to boot well, it just works fo me I guess.
Tom |
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06/25/2004 01:09:14 PM · #29 |
Well, Canon is very nice, putting noise reduction in the camera firmware, and I must say, they do very good job. E-1's images are more 'raw', less processsed than 10D's images. And the 14-54mm 'kit' lens is one very impressive lens.
The 10D was on my list too, but I just didn't like it for some reasons:
* 'Toy-like' colours
* Average handling
* Very expensive lenses, if you want to use the camera to it's full potential.
* Focus issues
* Flash issues
The E-1 has not dissappointed yet. I think Olympus is on to something. Get a black tape and tape over the Olympus and Canon logos, and then try the cameras again.
(NB. there are more people switching from 10D to E-1 than vice versa) :)
(And I DO think the 10D is a very good camera and Canon lenses are to die for, but they just cost too much, and you waste 20% of the lens area and weight)
J.
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06/25/2004 04:36:09 PM · #30 |
[/quote]
I was referring to a system with lenses too. Try buying an E1 with a 'starter's kit' of lenses. [/quote]
Yea you are right. You may end up paying a little more for a starter E-1 kit as compared to the 10D but you get a better built camera and a top of the line lens too.
Tom
Message edited by author 2004-06-25 16:36:36. |
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06/25/2004 04:44:52 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by garlic:
Originally posted by TomH1000:
Theres more out there then just Canon and Nikon. For me the E-1 was right for me. It may not be right for everyone.
Tom |
You are right Tom, there is more than only Canon and Nikon but if you take a look at quiality and price and avalible lenses and accesories then it isnt very hard to see why most of us choose them.
But thx for pointing it out. |
One more thing to look at if you all dare.
//forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=9306857
Again I must say that I think the Canon and Nikons are great cameras but I can't say they are better then the E-1 nor can I say vise versa but, if you all think the pros aren't looking at this camera guess again.
Tom
Message edited by author 2004-06-25 16:45:23. |
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06/25/2004 06:21:01 PM · #32 |
I went for the 10D for a few reasons:
1. adjustable flash settings (in camera)
2. higher ISO
3. the lens that the rebel came with isn't able to be used with my 58mm filters
4. color of body: black
5. feels more solid to me (I held them both for a while)
6. faster continuous shooting
Don't know if that helps or not. I found it worth the money! |
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06/25/2004 06:30:58 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by TomH1000:
Originally posted by garlic:
Originally posted by TomH1000:
Theres more out there then just Canon and Nikon. For me the E-1 was right for me. It may not be right for everyone.
Tom |
You are right Tom, there is more than only Canon and Nikon but if you take a look at quiality and price and avalible lenses and accesories then it isnt very hard to see why most of us choose them.
But thx for pointing it out. |
One more thing to look at if you all dare.
//forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=9306857
Again I must say that I think the Canon and Nikons are great cameras but I can't say they are better then the E-1 nor can I say vise versa but, if you all think the pros aren't looking at this camera guess again.
Tom |
You are seriosly outnumbered here mister;-)
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06/25/2004 07:44:05 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by mirdonamy:
I went for the 10D for a few reasons:
1. adjustable flash settings (in camera)
2. higher ISO
3. the lens that the rebel came with isn't able to be used with my 58mm filters
4. color of body: black
5. feels more solid to me (I held them both for a while)
6. faster continuous shooting
Don't know if that helps or not. I found it worth the money! |
What do you mean it can't be used with your 58mm filters? The lens has a 58mm thread and I'm using it with 58mm filters. ???
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06/25/2004 09:01:43 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Nazgul:
Originally posted by TomH1000:
Originally posted by garlic:
Originally posted by TomH1000:
Theres more out there then just Canon and Nikon. For me the E-1 was right for me. It may not be right for everyone.
Tom |
You are right Tom, there is more than only Canon and Nikon but if you take a look at quiality and price and avalible lenses and accesories then it isnt very hard to see why most of us choose them.
But thx for pointing it out. |
One more thing to look at if you all dare.
//forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=9306857
Again I must say that I think the Canon and Nikons are great cameras but I can't say they are better then the E-1 nor can I say vise versa but, if you all think the pros aren't looking at this camera guess again.
Tom |
You are seriosly outnumbered here mister;-) |
Perhaps out numbered but in no way out classed (-: |
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06/25/2004 10:16:35 PM · #36 |
You should check this out:
300D vs 10D:
//www.photo.net/equipment/canon/10dvs300d.html
//www.cps.canon-europe.com/articles/article.jsp?article.articleId=65005
//www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos300d/
//www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/
About Olympus E-1:
//www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse1/
Check out pages 15, 19, 20 and 21, there you can find some comparisons, but of course read the whole in-depth review if you are thinking about Olympus E-1.
IMHO there is no question choosing either EOS 300D and 10D over Olympus E-1 (I'm not saying that the Olympus E-1 is bad), but maybe if you have strong feelings about the 4:3 (TV) format, the Olympus has that format like most of the non-dSLR cameras. I, personally, like the 3:2 format better.
IMO I would choose 10D over 300D, it's a better choise for me like for many others, but on the other hand, the 300D is a better choise for many people also, mostly because of the cost difference, but I say that I'm getting that extra for the extra money I have to pay for the 10D (not that I had the opportunity to choose, as the 300D wasn't released when I bought mine one year ago).
If you have a tight budget, don't take the 10D and a cheap lens, take the 300D instead with a good lens.
Good luck choosing..!
Message edited by author 2004-06-25 22:20:19.
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06/25/2004 11:09:49 PM · #37 |
Hey guys--
Thanks so much for all of your help!
To clear this up: when I said I wanted to do sports stuff, I was thinking more along the lines of ballet (being a dancer myself) and some swimming stuff (have a lot of competitive swimmmer friends). I have asked about swimming shots on here before, and a few people said you needed to have a camera that will do a high ISO. My little Sony only does up to 400, so that, obviously, is not what I want. :)
I checked out the dpreview.com site (thanks so much to whoever posted that!) and I think I will probably go for the Rebel, for now. Like a few people said, it's better to get the Rebel and a good lens than to get the 10D and a cheap lens. And the $600 price difference matters a bit, too! : )
So, thanks for all of your help and info, it was useful.
Thanks,
Cristin |
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06/25/2004 11:32:54 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by christie3:
Hey all--
I have a quick question for all of you guys: which, in your opinion, is a nicer camera, the Canon 10D or the EOS Digital Rebel? I have a friend who has the 10D and loves it, but said the Rebel was, in his opinion, a better camera. What do you think? I'm thinking about upgrading from my boring little Sony Mavica CD300, and I really like the look of those two Canons. So, thanks for your help!
Oh, and in case this might help--I am wanting to do some sports photography, so I'm looking for a camera that will do that sort of thing. Thanks!
Cristin |
I cheaped out and got the rebel, but now it's up for sale so I can get a 10D but I've gone full throttle into 'paying' photography [cheesy self-promotion> www.lorimossphotography.com], that's why I'm upgrading. The photos I took with the Rebel using much better lenses than the kit lens came out great. |
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06/25/2004 11:34:19 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by TomH1000:
Originally posted by garlic:
Originally posted by TomH1000:
Theres more out there then just Canon and Nikon. For me the E-1 was right for me. It may not be right for everyone.
Tom |
You are right Tom, there is more than only Canon and Nikon but if you take a look at quiality and price and avalible lenses and accesories then it isnt very hard to see why most of us choose them.
But thx for pointing it out. |
Quiality and price? Humm not sure what you mean here. Build quiality? The E-1 as far as build is pro all the way and right up there with the 1D Mark II. Image quiality? To each there own as far as that goes but except for a little more noise at ISO 800 and above I would put an E-1 image next to any other camera as far as quiality. How about metering? The E-1 is right on almost everytime. Custom white balance? What do you have to do on the 10D. One button on the E-1 and I am ready to shoot in less the 3 seconds but to tell the truth the auto white ballance right on most of the time. Now lets talk about lenses. Yea your right there are more lenses out there for Canon and Nikon. Nice big and heavy lenses you can load up your bag with but for me 28 - 400mm f2.8-3.5 range with only 2 lenses and half the size and weight to boot well, it just works fo me I guess.
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I don't think Olympus is even considered when discussing professional photography...sorry, it's either nikon or canon...like I said, for professionals. You'd just never see a pro with an olympus.
Message edited by author 2004-06-25 23:35:44. |
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06/25/2004 11:39:51 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
I don't think Olympus is even considered when discussing professional photography...sorry, it's either nikon or canon...like I said, for professionals. You'd just never see a pro with an olympus. |
Yup, agreed.
Sure, there is going to be the odd exception, but 100 pro photographers at a sporting event, one with an Olympus, really does not mean Olympus are the way to go.
The pros don't ususally care so much about price as quality, as that is what makes them the money. The fact that just about every pro has a Canon or a Nikon says a lot for the quality of the products. It's also not down to good marketing, as that would not realistically fool those guys for that long.
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06/25/2004 11:49:13 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Natator:
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
I don't think Olympus is even considered when discussing professional photography...sorry, it's either nikon or canon...like I said, for professionals. You'd just never see a pro with an olympus. |
Yup, agreed.
Sure, there is going to be the odd exception, but 100 pro photographers at a sporting event, one with an Olympus, really does not mean Olympus are the way to go.
The pros don't ususally care so much about price as quality, as that is what makes them the money. The fact that just about every pro has a Canon or a Nikon says a lot for the quality of the products. It's also not down to good marketing, as that would not realistically fool those guys for that long. |
I should quickly note that for pro photos you have to make sure your original photo is going to look just as good billboard size as it does 4x6 and olympus or sony or whatever just can't do that...neither can the 300D, don't get me wrong. |
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06/26/2004 06:26:41 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
Originally posted by Natator:
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
I don't think Olympus is even considered when discussing professional photography...sorry, it's either nikon or canon...like I said, for professionals. You'd just never see a pro with an olympus. |
Yup, agreed.
Sure, there is going to be the odd exception, but 100 pro photographers at a sporting event, one with an Olympus, really does not mean Olympus are the way to go.
The pros don't ususally care so much about price as quality, as that is what makes them the money. The fact that just about every pro has a Canon or a Nikon says a lot for the quality of the products. It's also not down to good marketing, as that would not realistically fool those guys for that long. |
I should quickly note that for pro photos you have to make sure your original photo is going to look just as good billboard size as it does 4x6 and olympus or sony or whatever just can't do that...neither can the 300D, don't get me wrong. |
And you think the 10D can? Why? Same sensor as the Rebel. Only diference is maybe some in-camera processing.
Tom |
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06/26/2004 06:38:34 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
I should quickly note that for pro photos you have to make sure your original photo is going to look just as good billboard size as it does 4x6 and olympus or sony or whatever just can't do that...neither can the 300D, don't get me wrong. |
The 300D sensor is the same as the 10D, Lori. As such, it's mostly about the glass you put in front of the camera. With a good quality fixed focus or one of the higher quality L-range lenses the system is perfectly capable of printing to billboard size. In fact, I'm pretty sure someone on DPC has mentioned printing a billboard from a D30 or D60. |
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06/26/2004 06:41:20 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by Natator:
Sure, there is going to be the odd exception, but 100 pro photographers at a sporting event, one with an Olympus, really does not mean Olympus are the way to go. |
In fact, a sports shooter with an Oly will probably be laughed out the stadium.. Find me a pro sports shooter that doesn't primarily use 200/300/400 fixed length telephotos.
Message edited by author 2004-06-26 06:52:59. |
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06/26/2004 07:06:22 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
Originally posted by TomH1000:
[quote=garlic] [quote=TomH1000]
Quiality and price? Humm not sure what you mean here. Build quiality? The E-1 as far as build is pro all the way and right up there with the 1D Mark II. Image quiality? To each there own as far as that goes but except for a little more noise at ISO 800 and above I would put an E-1 image next to any other camera as far as quiality. How about metering? The E-1 is right on almost everytime. Custom white balance? What do you have to do on the 10D. One button on the E-1 and I am ready to shoot in less the 3 seconds but to tell the truth the auto white ballance right on most of the time. Now lets talk about lenses. Yea your right there are more lenses out there for Canon and Nikon. Nice big and heavy lenses you can load up your bag with but for me 28 - 400mm f2.8-3.5 range with only 2 lenses and half the size and weight to boot well, it just works fo me I guess.
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I don't think Olympus is even considered when discussing professional photography...sorry, it's either nikon or canon...like I said, for professionals. You'd just never see a pro with an olympus. |
This is what I mean by "Follow the leader" type mentality in this forum. So what you are saying is that I can't be a pro because I don't use Canon or Nikon? Well guess what my friends, I am a pro and make good money at it also. The last wedding I did I sent off the files for printing and was told by them that they love when I have work for them. They said there was far less PP. I said yea the same on my end. Most photos look great right out of the camera and when you have sometimes over a 1000 to go through it makes a real difference in my work flow. When I have to change my white balance due to some lighting changes at weddings I can get a custom white balance and ready to shoot in as little as 3 seconds. Bet you can't do that with any Canon or Nikon. Of course this is important to me and may not be to you. The city of Orlando Parks and Recreation is using all my photos for there new website and imagine that all done with the E-1. Of course I realize that it is not just the camera but the person behind it also. I have seen some great work done with a point and shoot camera by some photographer. Wish I can remember the website. There is a new wave coming my friends. You all better get ready to ride it. The 4/3 system is only 8 months old and gaining popularity everyday. At least once a week I read about someone selling there Canon gear for the E-1. I gave you all the thread to look at but doubt any of you bothered. Your going to see more and more jumping ship for the 4/3 system. New bodies and more lens coming soon. This system was built from the ground up for digital. It is not centered around 35mm. Smaller, lighter. Lets see where you all stand in maybe 2 or 3 years from now.
Tom |
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06/26/2004 07:19:29 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Originally posted by Natator:
Sure, there is going to be the odd exception, but 100 pro photographers at a sporting event, one with an Olympus, really does not mean Olympus are the way to go. |
In fact, a sports shooter with an Oly will probably be laughed out the stadium.. Find me a pro sports shooter that doesn't primarily use 200/300/400 fixed length telephotos. |
//dailystarphotos.com/2004/2004%20february.html and click on Jeffry Scott
All done with the E-1
Message edited by author 2004-06-26 07:21:05. |
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06/26/2004 07:24:27 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by TomH1000:
This is what I mean by "Follow the leader" type mentality in this forum. |
I don't see what's wrong with that. What's good enough for the majority of pros is good enough for me. As an almost semi-pro sports photog, when I start seeing Oly cameras at sports events, then I'll make my decision.
Originally posted by TomH1000:
So what you are saying is that I can't be a pro because I don't use Canon or Nikon? |
I don't think that's what people are saying. |
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06/26/2004 07:30:00 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by amason:
You should check this out:
About Olympus E-1:
//www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse1/
Check out pages 15, 19, 20 and 21, there you can find some comparisons, but of course read the whole in-depth review if you are thinking about Olympus E-1.
IMHO there is no question choosing either EOS 300D and 10D over Olympus E-1 (I'm not saying that the Olympus E-1 is bad), but maybe if you have strong feelings about the 4:3 (TV) format, the Olympus has that format like most of the non-dSLR cameras. I, personally, like the 3:2 format better.
Good luck choosing..! |
Well I guess if you are going to shoot test setups all day then the E-1 is not for you but this is not the real world. I find it funny you didn't mention this part of the review.
//www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse1/page23.asp
Tom |
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06/26/2004 08:09:55 AM · #49 |
from dpreview: "From the very start, Olympus has asserted that the E-1 system was designed specifically for working pro photographers. Many industry observers - and dpreview.com forum regulars - have expressed their doubts about the E-1's "pro" status.
So what is a professional-level camera? By the strictest definition, any camera that produces saleable images is a pro camera, be it a Canon EOS-1Ds or a Diana toy camera. Your own personal definition will depend on your shooting style."
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06/26/2004 10:21:41 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
In fact, I'm pretty sure someone on DPC has mentioned printing a billboard from a D30 or D60. |
There are some large blow-ups samples here from a 3 megapixel D30. The same guy has various interpolation actions for various Canon cameras which he used for those samples.
Since the E-1 is playing a prominent part in this thread, let me throw in my 2¢... my concern about the 4/3rds system is in terms of sensor size. The smaller the sensor, the noisier the image is gonna be at higher ISO's, and high ISO performance is extremely important if you have to shoot indoors without flash (which I do quite frequently). That's just the way it is. The ISO-noise comparisons of the 2X-crop factor E-1 compared to something like the Digital Rebel (which has a slightly larger sensor and a 1.6X crop factor) are night-and-day difference. Just about any camera can take fantastic shots outdoors or with strobes at ISO 100 (or 200, if you're shooting Nikon. =]) |
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