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07/30/2010 10:33:57 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by klkitchens:
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
Originally posted by klkitchens:
For example: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
They outright call it torture. Not "classified by some as a form of torture". Opinion is very clearly divided on this issue. |
That's because it's bloody obvious it is torture. Only an idiot, or someone who advocates it's use as a legitimate interrogation technique (i.e-an idiot, ) would think it isn't. It's dowsing someone's head in water to simulate the sensation of drowning. Of course it's torture. Jesus!
Anyway, what you talking about. It has this sentence in the second paragraph, 'U.S. government officials have at various times said they do not believe waterboarding to be a form of torture.' |
In your opinion.
However, please don't derail the thread. He asked for an example where the wikipedia article was inaccurate. This clearly was one.
And I believe it's a violation of the site TOS to call another member an idiot. So I suggest you edit that.
And what I'm talking about is not reflected in that sentence -- that's an attempt to spin the US Government as ignorant instead of reflecting the truth that in many minds, it's not torture. |
In many, but not most. Did you take the time to scroll down to "Classification as torture" before editing the article? PM me or start a Rant thread if you wanna keep debating (let's keep it out of this thread). |
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07/30/2010 10:49:25 AM · #27 |
Agreed. My apologies for adding to the derailment of the thread.
Originally posted by George:
Sounds like "use a lot of negative space" to me. Which is wrong. |
I agree. My take on minimalism is the breaking of an image down to its bare minimal components-to the pure bones of what makes the image-not just a lot of negative space as you say.
A couple of my recent abstracts would fit the bill i'd say...  
Message edited by author 2010-07-30 11:12:50. |
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07/30/2010 10:58:28 AM · #28 |
| Just another subject where at least half the people are out to dnmc you for one reason or 10 others... sigh... |
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07/30/2010 11:02:38 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Just another subject where at least half the people are out to dnmc you for one reason or 10 others... sigh... |
I agree with you and it's the main reason I'll be staying away from this challenge. |
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07/30/2010 11:04:40 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Just another subject where at least half the people are out to dnmc you for one reason or 10 others... sigh... |
I don't think i'd dnmc people (in fact i very rarely dnmc an image - i can only think of a couple in the last year or so- and that was annoyingly obvious), just that i think i'd enjoy the images that do that paring down to the essence more than if it was just an object and lots of negative space. As ever, though, i'll just vote on the image itself and less on how it meets the challenge.
Message edited by author 2010-07-30 11:05:09. |
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07/30/2010 11:09:02 AM · #31 |
| Why not just look what worked here and here ? |
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07/30/2010 11:29:14 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by h2:
Why not just look what worked here and here ? |
Because they're wrong. |
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07/30/2010 11:31:34 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by jsadlek:
Originally posted by JustCaree:
Originally posted by jsadlek:
*sigh* if only i was a member,
i would love to enter this one. |
well join up!!! |
unfortunately paying off bills comes before dpchallenge membership. |
I don't know how but I can pay your one month membership. It's only 5 bucks. You can participate in the Minimalism challenge and the Free Study for July. Only one day left though.
Anyone know how I can? |
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07/30/2010 11:35:31 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by Jac:
I don't know how but I can pay your one month membership. It's only 5 bucks. You can participate in the Minimalism challenge and the Free Study for July. Only one day left though.
Anyone know how I can? |
I'm really not sure. There's a gift membership page - //www.dpchallenge.com/gift.php - but that appears to offer only a yearlong membership as an option. There's gotta be a way. |
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07/30/2010 11:40:55 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by mycelium:
Originally posted by Jac:
I don't know how but I can pay your one month membership. It's only 5 bucks. You can participate in the Minimalism challenge and the Free Study for July. Only one day left though.
Anyone know how I can? |
I'm really not sure. There's a gift membership page - //www.dpchallenge.com/gift.php - but that appears to offer only a yearlong membership as an option. There's gotta be a way. |
I just sent a ticket to the SC. I think it would be nice to be able to pay for one month as a gift. |
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07/30/2010 11:57:35 AM · #36 |
| oh no! please don't! there will be other challenge's in the future for me! (= also i'm heading away for the next few days so i wouldn't be able to upload anything in time anyway. but thanks for the thought! |
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07/30/2010 12:12:16 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by George:
Originally posted by h2:
Why not just look what worked here and here ? |
Because they're wrong. |
Isn't photography (and art in general) more about the work itself and less about fitting a specific definition that a group of people have regarding a subject? This thread has proven that the idea of minimalism is not well defined across the spectrum of various sites available out there. You are taking an arbitrary stand that something is wrong because you say it is. It is for that reason that we get so many 1s and 2s on these challenges for perfectly beautiful shots that meet the definition just in a looser sense than you apply to it. You have made up your mind before you even see the pictures available and that is definately NOT what art is for. It is about free expression, not closed-minded bigots (a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.) If you can't see the art for what it is, then you should refrain from voting and just being a troll who likes to see how many times they can DNMC those around them. |
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07/30/2010 12:16:14 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by jsadlek:
oh no! please don't! there will be other challenge's in the future for me! (= also i'm heading away for the next few days so i wouldn't be able to upload anything in time anyway. but thanks for the thought! |
You're welcome and if you change your mind just send me a PM or email.
Now it's time I get off my arse and go shoot something in a minimalistic way. ;)
cheers |
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07/30/2010 12:35:26 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by klkitchens:
For example: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
They outright call it torture. Not "classified by some as a form of torture". Opinion is very clearly divided on this issue. |
Wow, I must have had my head in the sand and missed the memo that it's not torture.
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07/30/2010 12:42:34 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Originally posted by klkitchens:
For example: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
They outright call it torture. Not "classified by some as a form of torture". Opinion is very clearly divided on this issue. |
Wow, I must have had my head in the sand and missed the memo that it's not torture. |
I believe that some victims quite enjoyed it and are campaigning to have it reclassified as an extreme sport. |
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07/30/2010 12:58:33 PM · #41 |
nvm
Message edited by author 2010-07-30 12:59:42. |
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07/30/2010 12:59:15 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by klkitchens:
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by klkitchens:
Michael Scott (The Office): Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information. |
Anybody can correct them too. I challenge you to find an article that is totally wrong or states something totally untrue on that site.
On a side note.
What's the opposite of minimalism? Maximalism? ;\ |
For example: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
They outright call it torture. Not "classified by some as a form of torture". Opinion is very clearly divided on this issue. I tried once to correct this to be factually accurate -- not deny, not claim -- and got slapped down by the powers that be. There *IS* an editorial board who enforce their opinions on many of the articles. Wikipedia is NOT purely objective. In fact several articles resort to what they themselves call "consensus" or "majority opinion".
That said, I doubt there is any political motive against the definition of "minimalism" -- it's just a good line.
And funny that people run to Wikipedia as their first line of defense for looking things up. I would have been more inclined to refer to a photography site for a definition. |
From that article.
waterboarding precipitates an almost immediate gag reflex.[3] It can cause extreme pain, dry drowning, damage to lungs, brain damage from oxygen deprivation, other physical injuries including broken bones due to struggling against restraints, lasting psychological damage or, if uninterrupted, death
Not torture, you've got to be kidding me. |
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07/30/2010 01:05:04 PM · #43 |
| I classify threads like these as torture. Now I'm off to Wikipedia to document it... |
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07/30/2010 01:07:55 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
Agreed. My apologies for adding to the derailment of the thread.
Originally posted by George:
Sounds like "use a lot of negative space" to me. Which is wrong. |
I agree. My take on minimalism is the breaking of an image down to its bare minimal components-to the pure bones of what makes the image-not just a lot of negative space as you say.
A couple of my recent abstracts would fit the bill i'd say... |
Thread derailment totally forgiven (enjoyed reading it anyhow).
As for those entries, yep, I think both are spot on for this challenge. |
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07/30/2010 01:53:57 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
Agreed. My apologies for adding to the derailment of the thread.
Originally posted by George:
Sounds like "use a lot of negative space" to me. Which is wrong. |
I agree. My take on minimalism is the breaking of an image down to its bare minimal components-to the pure bones of what makes the image-not just a lot of negative space as you say.
A couple of my recent abstracts would fit the bill i'd say... |
Thread derailment totally forgiven (enjoyed reading it anyhow).
As for those entries, yep, I think both are spot on for this challenge. |
Sorry about the thread derailment.
Back on topic though. I can't wait to see the images for this one as I like this type of photography a lot. |
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07/30/2010 02:33:38 PM · #46 |
In light of the Wiki article on minimalism which features the painting below, a painting titled "Black Square" 1913, located in the State Russian Museum in St. Petersburg I imagine monochromatic B/W images also fully qualify as minimalist in this challenge.
Another minimalist painter, Rothko, is featured at the Tate Modern in London with such modern wonders as this:
If you look at the "lowest rated" photos under Photos/Browse/Lowest-Rated, you'll find quite a number of "minimalist" beauties.
My Hand by  hann with lowest all time DPC score of 1.809
Competition by  Gabriel, scoring 2.004 or 7th lowest all time on DPC
A single light source... by charliebaker, scoring 2.083, my lowest ever score!
Canberra at Night by  MattB scoring 2.164.
If you've never tried to "score low" on DPC, you likely do not know how hard it is to score below a 3.0 anymore. How often have you railed and ranted against the "reverse trolls", those who give high scores for those seeking to score low? Personally, I'm a big fan of inverted trolls, seeing them as truly the outside the box visionaries of this website! Also, you'll see the honor DPC gives to minimalist visions if you check out the lowest scoring photos on DPC. You'll discover that 30% of the lowest 50 photos are "minimalist" featuring monochromatic images with little or no actual subject within the image.
So, here's to your minimalist entries! Have fun "shooting" e.f.f.o.r.t.l.e.s.s, wierd, "ugh-why-even-enter-something", boring, weak, a-waste-of-my-time photos. You're in good standing with classic modern art hanging in art museums of London and St. Petersburg!
Message edited by author 2010-07-30 14:45:51. |
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07/30/2010 02:49:14 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by charliebaker:
In light of the Wiki article on minimalism which features the painting below, a painting titled "Black Square" 1913, located in the State Russian Museum in St. Petersburg I imagine monochromatic B/W images also fully qualify as minimalist in this challenge.
If you look at the "lowest rated" photos under Photos/Browse/Lowest-Rated, you'll find quite a number of "minimalist" beauties.
My Hand by hann with lowest all time DPC score of 1.809
Competition by Gabriel, scoring 2.004 or 7th lowest all time on DPC
A single light source... by charliebaker, scoring 2.083, my lowest ever score!
Canberra at Night by MattB scoring 2.164.
If you've never tried to "score low" on DPC, you likely do not know how hard it is to score below a 3.0 anymore. If you check out the lowest scoring photos on DPC, you'll discover that 30% of the lowest 50 photos are "minimalist" featuring monochromatic images with little or no actual subject within the image. Hmmm...
So, here's to minimalist entries! Have fun "shooting" effortless, boring, weak, wastes of time. You are in good standing with artwork hanging in art museums of St. Petersburg! |
Please do forgive me charliebaker, as you are certainly a great photographer, but I think you are quite mistaken on these being minimalist, as they lack any sharp lines, and the minimalist style does (as in the larger image you provided) emphasize sharp lines and not simply a blank bit of nothing.. So, while all of those that you posted are quite minimal, all also lack any real arguably "minimalistic" features, as they actually lack features in entirety....
So, perhaps it would also be beneficial to look at the Modernism movement, which of course was where all this Minimalism business started in the first place... That might give you a better idea as to what this challenge really is about. |
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07/30/2010 02:59:18 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Please do forgive me charliebaker, as you are certainly a great photographer, but I think you are quite mistaken on these being minimalist, as they lack any sharp lines, and the minimalist style does (as in the larger image you provided) emphasize sharp lines and not simply a blank bit of nothing.. So, while all of those that you posted are quite minimal, all also lack any real arguably "minimalistic" features, as they actually lack features in entirety....
So, perhaps it would also be beneficial to look at the Modernism movement, which of course was where all this Minimalism business started in the first place... That might give you a better idea as to what this challenge really is about. |
Thanks Cory for the dialogue. While I agree that much of minimalist art features "sharp lines", the minimalist movement as a form of art is not strictly limited to such. Anyway, all DPC entries have an enforced "sharp line" feature of the DPC border. And no, I disagree with you regarding Rothko and the Black Square from St. Petersburg which not only do not have "sharp lines" but rather simply either a border or in Rothko's case with the art featured, quite a fuzzy line. Let's not force minimalism into too tight of a box. I'd hate to minimalize the movement! It also includes monochromatic art forms as an exploration of limits within art as a human expression. |
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07/30/2010 03:04:27 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by charliebaker:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Please do forgive me charliebaker, as you are certainly a great photographer, but I think you are quite mistaken on these being minimalist, as they lack any sharp lines, and the minimalist style does (as in the larger image you provided) emphasize sharp lines and not simply a blank bit of nothing.. So, while all of those that you posted are quite minimal, all also lack any real arguably "minimalistic" features, as they actually lack features in entirety....
So, perhaps it would also be beneficial to look at the Modernism movement, which of course was where all this Minimalism business started in the first place... That might give you a better idea as to what this challenge really is about. |
Thanks Cory for the dialogue. While I agree that much of minimalist art features "sharp lines", the minimalist movement as a form of art is not strictly limited to such. Anyway, all DPC entries have an enforced "sharp line" feature of the DPC border. And no, I disagree with you regarding Rothko and the Black Square from St. Petersburg which not only do not have "sharp lines" but rather simply either a border or in Rothko's case with the art featured, quite a fuzzy line. Let's not force minimalism into too tight of a box. I'd hate to minimalize the movement! It also includes monochromatic art forms as an exploration of limits within art as a human expression. |
I like how you've managed to use the DPC box as an integral part of the piece... Interesting.
I do still, however, disagree about the nature of the line in both of the aforementioned pieces... In the case of black square, while it may be somewhat arguable, I see that as a very clearly sharp line, in the case of the Rothko, I also see those lines as sharp, but there are three lines, and the borders are sharp, if not straight.
Again, we could go into semantics here, but, just to avoid that, let's just say I'm defining sharp as "not heavily blended"... |
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07/30/2010 03:21:53 PM · #50 |
| As with any other category of art, a good Minimalist piece contains its own definition of Minimalism. |
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