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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> The Pledge: I will vote 6 for average - Join me
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 06/08/2010 12:23:22 AM · #176
This is what I think: Actually, the true average is not 5.5 but 5, because the true scale is "0~10". However, every photo desevers at least 1 because it has some meaning to the photographer, so DPC hides the 0. Since the true average is 5, why do we bother to raise the average to 6?
 06/08/2010 10:35:09 AM · #177
Originally posted by Deen:
This is what I think: Actually, the true average is not 5.5 but 5, because the true scale is "0~10". However, every photo desevers at least 1 because it has some meaning to the photographer, so DPC hides the 0. Since the true average is 5, why do we bother to raise the average to 6?

See, this is the beauty of it. You think average is 5, others think the average should be 6. These two voting approaches cancel each other out for... 5.5 as an average! Tada!
 06/08/2010 11:41:07 AM · #178
Jeb, as sweet as you are, sometimes your good intentions are misunderstood.
 06/08/2010 12:06:16 PM · #179
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by Prash:
So before coming in such an aggressive tone and trying to shoot down a newbie who, God forbid, has an idea that doesn't agree with your thought process, I highly recommend learning yourself some grace and respectability from other senior members. And if think that goes against your ego to take a suggestion from someone younger at DPC than you are, perhaps you can start ignoring such threads and save us all the pain.

Did you even see my first post? There was no tone, and I didn't even get involved with this thread in any kind of way on the other side of the fence at all 'til the OP started blowing off people right and left.

The OP quoted my first post in its entirety and said "Superb!" without taking notice at all of the gentle hint that was in it. I didn't become a problem 'til I was more direct to him as he got more garrulous and argumentative.

Apparently, you didn't catch it, either. Maybe you should go back and read it.

Oh.....read Louis's original post, too, and see if you disagree with his.

Last but not least, my average vote cast is about a full point higher than yours, and half point higher than the OP's. I have my own reasons for doing it that way, but I am not going to suggest anyone else adopt my reasoning simply because it works for me.


Ok I've waited a day to respond.. :)

First, I missed nothing. I choose to ignore your suggestion which was veiled as a promise, as I do not feel I was or am wrong in starting this discussion. Nor do I feel there is anything garrulous about this discussion, it is important enough that it should be discussed..

Secondly, the phrase "blow off" usually carries a connotation of ignoring, as you can see that I've responded to almost every post, and I have read each carefully, I think you're pretty off base here.

Third, Louis's original post was much better than yours, at least he didn't feel the need to be surreptitious. I still however didn't agree (at all) that my idea is "wrong-headed".

Finally, your parting comment about not "suggesting that anyone adopt your reasoning", that's obvious.. As you haven't suggested much here, except that I am wrong. Even still, after everything before this, I would indeed love to hear about your system of voting, and how you feel it is best approached.. It's hard to gain much knowledge from the older and wiser members if they don't share the wisdom they have gained.

In the end, I do still honestly care what you think.. I just care less today than I did two days ago.

Bring your philosophy and I will listen, reason with me and I will have discourse with you, explain your system of ethics and I will try to understand, attack and I will defend myself and my ideas.

Cheers,
Cory

Message edited by author 2010-06-08 12:09:33.
 06/08/2010 12:28:12 PM · #180
Originally posted by coryboehne:
As you haven't suggested much here, except that I am wrong.

Actually, what I suggested is that you acquaint yourself with the system as it is in place, see what happens over a longer period of time, take advantage of the information that you receive.......Steve's display of the two voting metrics will tell you a lot, as will the type & number of comments, and you'll not have to ask or convince anyone to join you in anything to extract a wealth of information. It's all in how you interpret what you get. It's easier to learn how to read the information that you do get than to try to get more and/or different info than what the voters are willing to give.

I can elaborate more if you like later....I won't beseige you with useless info/opining unless you'd like it.
 06/08/2010 01:08:10 PM · #181
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
As you haven't suggested much here, except that I am wrong.

Actually, what I suggested is that you acquaint yourself with the system as it is in place, see what happens over a longer period of time, take advantage of the information that you receive.......Steve's display of the two voting metrics will tell you a lot, as will the type & number of comments, and you'll not have to ask or convince anyone to join you in anything to extract a wealth of information. It's all in how you interpret what you get. It's easier to learn how to read the information that you do get than to try to get more and/or different info than what the voters are willing to give.

I can elaborate more if you like later....I won't beseige you with useless info/opining unless you'd like it.


Although I'm not sure what you mean by the part about trying to get info (I felt that I was sharing my thoughts, not asking for information or stats).. This is the first thing you said within this thread that I agree 100% with you on Jeb. And I suppose you may have missed it, but I have actually spent a ton of time reading, examining and thinking. I feel that you have assumed that I did not do this before posting, but I assure you that in just under 3/4 of a year, I have managed to acquaint myself quite thoroughly.. If however, you have a particular thread in mind, please do share, as I'm always up for reading more.

And let's be very clear here, I do try to extract the same information Steve showed in those graphs, following almost the exact same logic. But the results that I get on my images, and the scores that others deserve are 100% disconnected, as there should be no relationship between what I get and what they deserve, and this discussion is entirely about how I intend to vote, not how I'm going to use the information that is given to me by the voters to improve myself.

I suspect that you perhaps felt this discussion was directed in some way at you, or more accurately, directed at everyone... It really wasn't. Although no-one was intended to be barred from this conversation, I was absolutely directing this towards the newer members, who, like myself, perhaps had questions about this subject, and since it does seem to be somewhat faux pas to discuss voting, I thought it would, perhaps, be a timely conversation.

As you can see, I'm not a status-quo kind of guy... I do enjoy a bit of debate, and I do enjoy discussing subjects of this nature, I also talk about religion and politics too. I do not respect those who become overly emotional or lose their temperament, so let's do try to keep it cool yeah? I respect your work, and think that it's fairly likely that you do indeed have great insights that should be shared... I do, therefore invite you to please, share your philosophy in full here, I promise I would like it, and I won't consider it besieging me with anything...

Cheers

Message edited by author 2010-06-08 13:11:11.
 06/08/2010 01:35:47 PM · #182
Sheesh.


Kiss and make up already.
 06/08/2010 01:58:56 PM · #183
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Sheesh.


Kiss and make up already.


I like your graphic there Spiff... Ok Jebbie, come over here, I'll even slip you a bit of tongue..
 06/08/2010 02:02:27 PM · #184
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Sheesh.


Kiss and make up already.


I like your graphic there Spiff... Ok Jebbie, come over here, I'll even slip you a bit of tongue..


eeewww! Ok, now I'm done with this thread!

:P
 06/08/2010 02:08:51 PM · #185
06/08/2010 02:10:44 PM · #186
Godzilla to the rescue. LOL
 06/08/2010 02:13:37 PM · #187
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:


Nice one, can you do it with this version? I see a lot of need for it in the forums.

06/08/2010 02:14:11 PM · #188
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:


I think in light of the content of my earlier post, this might qualify as a hate crime :)
 06/08/2010 02:43:45 PM · #189
Originally posted by coryboehne:
I think in light of the content of my earlier post, this might qualify as a hate crime :)

Godzilla is not known for his tolerance. :P
 06/08/2010 03:29:15 PM · #190
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Nice one, can you do it with this version? I see a lot of need for it in the forums.


06/08/2010 03:31:57 PM · #191
Art needs to be wearing an Olympus hat.
 06/08/2010 04:21:54 PM · #192
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Although I'm not sure what you mean by the part about trying to get info (I felt that I was sharing my thoughts, not asking for information or stats).. This is the first thing you said within this thread that I agree 100% with you on Jeb. And I suppose you may have missed it, but I have actually spent a ton of time reading, examining and thinking. I feel that you have assumed that I did not do this before posting, but I assure you that in just under 3/4 of a year, I have managed to acquaint myself quite thoroughly.. If however, you have a particular thread in mind, please do share, as I'm always up for reading more.

It's not so much a thread as to learn how to establish your own style by closely following how the voting goes on your own images. If you wanted to be really overkill about it, you could study voting patterns on winning images as well to see what is likely to resonate with the voters as well.
Originally posted by coryboehne:
And let's be very clear here, I do try to extract the same information Steve showed in those graphs, following almost the exact same logic. But the results that I get on my images, and the scores that others deserve are 100% disconnected, as there should be no relationship between what I get and what they deserve, and this discussion is entirely about how I intend to vote, not how I'm going to use the information that is given to me by the voters to improve myself.

Okay......you lost me a little on that roundabout explanation. To me, and that's all I'm saying here, the voting that I get is an indication of how the site works.....this also takes into consideration the comments as well. There is never-ending bitching about the comments.....not enough, not helpful, snarky, don't tell me how to fix it, TELL me how to fix it, don't give a low score with out an explanation (A personal fave hate of mine......if someone thinks it sucks and gives it a one, WHY would they take the time to explain it?????). I've already had 6+ scores before with only a few comments......that tells me a lot. They admired the technical proficiency perhaps, or it was pretty, but obviously it didn't inspire. To me, I'd rather have a 5.2 with twelve comments, three of which told me that they found it disagreeable.
Originally posted by coryboehne:
I suspect that you perhaps felt this discussion was directed in some way at you, or more accurately, directed at everyone... It really wasn't. Although no-one was intended to be barred from this conversation, I was absolutely directing this towards the newer members, who, like myself, perhaps had questions about this subject, and since it does seem to be somewhat faux pas to discuss voting, I thought it would, perhaps, be a timely conversation.

Thing is.....if you want to get feedback as to how to help the newer members, then you really should encourage people who have been around, and actively, and that are comfortable with how they go about participating, (Photography-wise), then you would do yourself a great service by seriously considering what they would have to say. Anyone that has been here, and participated in challenges for a while, *must* acquire some sort of method to reconcile what they're doing both in entering, and voting/commenting. There is always a struggle to get something you can live with........you must decide what works for you.
Originally posted by coryboehne:
As you can see, I'm not a status-quo kind of guy... I do enjoy a bit of debate, and I do enjoy discussing subjects of this nature, I also talk about religion and politics too. I do not respect those who become overly emotional or lose their temperament, so let's do try to keep it cool yeah? I respect your work, and think that it's fairly likely that you do indeed have great insights that should be shared... I do, therefore invite you to please, share your philosophy in full here, I promise I would like it, and I won't consider it besieging me with anything...

Cheers

Good luck trying to dissuade me from being passionate, or getting frustrated.....it's going to happen. I certainly don't intend to get nuts, but when someone tells me what I'm saying, or doing, when they don't have a clue, then that pisses me off, and I'm going to blast them if I feel that they're getting personal and ignorant.

Unfortunately, one of the things that I get accused of is that whole black and white thing, when someone decides I'm taking a stnace that I'm not. That's the hassle of 'Net communication. It just sucks some days. They seem to forget that it takes two to tango, and their stance seems just as ridiculous to me as mine may to them. The funny thing is that I don't much want someone to so much change as accept that there are other ways of doing things. That applies in all aspects of life.

Bottom line? An unbelievable number of people here have willingly, and graciously helped me to become a pretty damn decent photographer, and most importantly, have helped me to learn how to do it here in such a manner that DP Challenge is the most incredible teaching tool I could ever imagine Look at my early stuff.......it's downright frightful. I will still pull a terrible score every now and then, but the difference is that it's not so much the imagery that's lacking as the message either missed the mark or was for only a select few. If you don't conform to the status quo you spoke of, you'll get spanked in a score......but you may find that the comments and the scoring ratio will be interesting enough that the two people you REALLY reached were all you needed from that entry. So if I can help in return in any way, I'm interested......I don't think I have much in the way of wisdom, but if I can save someone from making the same mistakes here and there that I did by answering questions, I'm all over it.
 06/08/2010 04:38:39 PM · #193
this thread has inspired me to make a lemon pledge
 06/08/2010 05:00:17 PM · #194
Originally posted by smardaz:
this thread has inspired me to make a lemon pledge

Pour one for me while you're at it. On the rocks, please!
 06/08/2010 05:05:08 PM · #195
Originally posted by smardaz:
this thread has inspired me to make a lemon pledge


too much waxy build up.
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