Capping the oil - DPChallenge Forums

06/03/2010 11:49:17 PM · #26

Originally posted by PapaBob:

Originally posted by kenskid:
Is there any alternative energy that will put a dent...say 25% in the oil we use?

Not that I have heard. It is easy to say let's change away from fossil fuels but there needs to be something to replace it with. First you need a better fuel to replace it with then you need a plan to phase it in, to just stop producing oil when you do not have a plan or alternative fuel is not the answer.

Very true. It's also absurd to believe a solution for an inevitable end (the depletion of oil reserves) will magically present itself when a crisis (end of reserves) is upon us. This is why an approach that is not so steadfastly focused on oil is necessary. We can't expect a magical switch from one to the other, that is patently absurd, yet that's the path that we are increasingly leaning towards, with limited accommodations made to any alternatives. The money just isn't there.

06/03/2010 11:51:19 PM · #27

US waters don't extend out very far! And yes...moving them also cost money BUT the company that is leasing the rig takes this cost...not the owners of the rig. It has been discussed each day here on local radio for hours on end....the rigs are being courted by more than one South American country.

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by kenskid:
The rig owners (if not being paid), move the rig on to the next company in line. In this case, many of the idle rigs are being pursued by Brazil.

Brazil wouldn't be allowed to drill in U.S. waters either, and the cost of moving a drilling rig is also millions of dollars a day.

06/03/2010 11:58:42 PM · #28

[quote=kenskid] Is there any alternative energy that will put a dent...say 25% in the oil we use?

[quote=tehben] About time this country stops drilling for oil and starts pursuing alternative environmentally friendly and sustainable energy sources.

[quote=kenskid] The Obama doesn't know what he is talking about...all drilling is stopped at this point.

For electricity production, yes. Wind, solar, geothermal, hydro....
If the oil industry wasn't a multi billion dollar industry that is capable of suppressing competing technology and warping the American mindset to make us heavy consumers we wouldn't need all the oil we use and we would be much better off.
The US is the 10th highest energy user per capita behind some middle east countries and mainly northern europe and Canada.
DOE graph of our energy usage

06/04/2010 12:01:03 AM · #29

Originally posted by kenskid:

Yes...it would be nice to have sweet green energy that supplied all of our power...that also put people to work. IMO we won't get off of oil until it runs out.

Originally posted by PapaBob:

Originally posted by kenskid:
Is there any alternative energy that will put a dent...say 25% in the oil we use?

Not that I have heard. It is easy to say let's change away from fossil fuels but there needs to be something to replace it with. First you need a better fuel to replace it with then you need a plan to phase it in, to just stop producing oil when you do not have a plan or alternative fuel is not the answer.

But if we don't have an alternative when it does run out we are screwed....

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

06/04/2010 12:01:25 AM · #30

Originally posted by kenskid:

US waters don't extend out very far!

The Exclusive Economic Zone that covers oil exploration rights extends 200 nautical miles from the U.S. coast, and I'll bet that ALL of the shallow drilling areas you're complaining about fall well within that area.

06/04/2010 12:06:55 AM · #31

Originally posted by tehben:

06/04/2010 12:11:26 AM · #32

But you're forgetting that shallow water drilling is hard to come by. It is very limited b/c of environmental concerns.

Also..yes it is about 180 or so miles but Pensacola is about 150 miles from this well...so other countries can still drill in areas that can pollute US beaches. So realistically, anyone can drill 180 miles off the coast of Florida...it may as well be US.

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by kenskid:
US waters don't extend out very far!

The Exclusive Economic Zone that covers oil exploration rights extends 200 nautical miles from the U.S. coast, and I'll bet that ALL of the shallow drilling areas you're complaining about fall well within that area.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

06/04/2010 12:30:22 AM · #33

Originally posted by kenskid:

But you're forgetting that shallow water drilling is hard to come by. It is very limited b/c of environmental concerns.

So then all your rhetoric about shallow water drilling is meaningless. Even the 6 month moratorium on deep water drilling is fairly minor in an industry that takes many years to develop a site. Few (if any) rigs will move, and other countries cannot jump in and drill areas covered by the ban (if the U.S. didn't have jurisdiction, then the moratorium would be ignored here, too).

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 12-24mm f/4.0G IF-ED

06/04/2010 12:31:53 AM · #34

Originally posted by kenskid:

Our homes in the south are powered by electricty. We get it from burning natural gas..that boils water...that makes steam...that spins turbines.

Lets say that I invent some kind of solar device that is small (three square feet). It will power your house completly all day. While it is powering your house, it is also charging a battery (for night power). It will last 5 years without needing to be replaced.

I can make this device for $500. Lets say in the free market customers will pay whatever their current 2 year electric bill is. So they get 3 years of electricty free.

What can the big oil companies do to stop me? Run ads saying how bad my device is? But lets say it works great for 5 years...what then? I don't think they can do anything that could stop this clean device...except...

....pay me a few billion for the patent and shelve it ! :)

Originally posted by tehben:
[quote=kenskid] Is there any alternative energy that will put a dent...say 25% in the oil we use?

[quote=tehben] About time this country stops drilling for oil and starts pursuing alternative environmentally friendly and sustainable energy sources.

[quote=kenskid] The Obama doesn't know what he is talking about...all drilling is stopped at this point.

For electricity production, yes. Wind, solar, geothermal, hydro....
If the oil industry wasn't a multi billion dollar industry that is capable of suppressing competing technology and warping the American mindset to make us heavy consumers we wouldn't need all the oil we use and we would be much better off.
The US is the 10th highest energy user per capita behind some middle east countries and mainly northern europe and Canada.
DOE graph of our energy usage

jbsmithana

Nikon D300

06/04/2010 12:40:22 AM · #35

Kenny I know you and your wife make a good amount of your living off the oil industry and I understand your concerns about any limits put on drilling in the gulf. However, the problem was created by the industry itself, not regulation but likely not enough regulation or lax enforcement of what there is. The industry you seem to be defending needs to be held accountable and our government needs to do whatever it takes to assure that companies operating in our waters can mitigate any problems that take place. In this case it seriously looks like BP cut corners and had no idea how to fix a catastrophic failure if it did occur.

From everything I have seen there has been no progress in technology in how to cap an underwater blowout since the 1979 Mexican well that blew in 165 feet of water. That one took 9 months to stop and only succeeded after relief wells were drilled. The steps taken so far are identical to those taken then. If an industry makes billions in profits and has come up with new technology to drill more efficiently and deeper then why not hold them to putting in research that results in solutions to deep water blowouts before letting them use these new drilling technologies?

As a side note the Mexican oil rig disaster in 1979 was owned by the same company that today is Transocean. Go figure.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

06/04/2010 12:41:24 AM · #36

I happen to own some RIG stock so I pay attention to these things, but no single rig is earning $1.5 million/day. Current day rates are in the $350-$400,000/day range on average for the deepest water ships. Not chump change, but 1/5th of what is being quoted here.

Rig Day Rates

MelonMusketeer

Nikon D7000

Nikon MF 50mm f/1.4

06/04/2010 01:18:51 AM · #37

I live in S Florida, and fish the Gulf,and in the Straits of Florida between Florida and Cuba with my friends. I would be out there now if not for a Dr appointment.
I lived with a family of oil well people for several years in the mid 70's early 80's and understand a good bit about how it works. This oil spill disaster was very preventable, but that's a moot point with the situation as it is now. This is not the first time that this has happened, google IXTOC 1 for details.
There is actually a lot of oil that naturally seeps out of the sea bed into the environment, It's just a fact, and is also evidenced by records of the Spaniards tarring their ships in the 1500's with tar balls found on the beaches along the coast of Central America.
This current problem is a bigger one due to the great depths involved, and the use of sub standard casing in the well construction. The casing is not strong enough to withstand a pinch off without blowing out somewhere down the hole, so the end solution is going to take a lot of time and some very intelligent and talented drilling people, instead of super-brains who have never drilled a foot of pipe into the ground. It's a shame that the oil companies and the US government will not allow drilling the needed number of wells closer inshore, or this event would have never happened. I also find it interesting that 11 B P bigwigs were on the rig celebrating xxxx days of continuous accident free operation when it exploded. I am curious to see where the ax lands when all the probes and the inquiry is over.
We will tough it out, and the environment will recover. I have seen places in the Everglades with ponds of crude oil half the size of a football field in the 60's, and there is no trace of anything ever happening in those locations now. This one is bad, but it's not a new thing.

I'm just posting this link that I came across as I was reading through some other things on another site. If you have time to read it and want to, then take it for what it's worth. I was 21 when the big oil squeeze of 1973 "happened" and remember it well. This article also gives some insight into how much energy is actually out there in the ground.
What the heck happened?

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

06/04/2010 02:39:21 AM · #38

Originally posted by MelonMusketeer:

I'm just posting this link that I came across as I was reading through some other things on another site. If you have time to read it and want to, then take it for what it's worth. I was 21 when the big oil squeeze of 1973 "happened" and remember it well. This article also gives some insight into how much energy is actually out there in the ground.
What the heck happened?

Any thing that comes from a report entitled
Final Warning: A History of the New World Order
Illuminism and the master plan for world domination
Should be taken with a grain of salt. A shaker of salt. In fact read a bit, and it begins to smell like a great big steaming pile of...salt

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

06/04/2010 03:17:06 AM · #39

Originally posted by BrennanOB:

Originally posted by MelonMusketeer:

I'm just posting this link that I came across as I was reading through some other things on another site. If you have time to read it and want to, then take it for what it's worth. I was 21 when the big oil squeeze of 1973 "happened" and remember it well. This article also gives some insight into how much energy is actually out there in the ground.
What the heck happened?

Any thing that comes from a report entitled
Final Warning: A History of the New World Order
Illuminism and the master plan for world domination
Should be taken with a grain of salt. A shaker of salt. In fact read a bit, and it begins to smell like a great big steaming pile of...salt

Just because it's not a popular theory doesn't mean it couldn't be factual. I would take anything Big Oil or FOX etc. says with a truckload of salt!

I'm going to have to give that book a read.... looks very interesting.

Strikeslip

Canon EOS-5D

06/04/2010 08:13:25 AM · #40

I guess Canada's oilsands aren't looking so bad now. China will own it all soon.

MelonMusketeer

Nikon D7000

Nikon MF 50mm f/1.4

06/04/2010 10:34:35 AM · #41

To get an idea of how big the area of the oil slick is, you can use this link to see how far it would reach from your location. It works using Google Earth, and overlays a map of the spill on a Google map, with your home location at the center. It's a big problem.
if it was my home. com

one2one

Olympus E-5

Olympus 7-14mm f/4.0 Zuiko Digital Zoom

06/04/2010 10:36:12 AM · #42

Parasites always end up killing their hosts. We're no different. I'm so disgusted in seeing humans kill this planet that this situation just makes me laugh and I'm not concerned one bit with the implications this is going to have on oil prices or the people who work in the oil business.

Not one tear from me. We need more disasters like this, it's the only way we're going to learn our lessons.

06/04/2010 10:38:03 AM · #43

Thanks for all the input...interesting stuff..

On this one though..

So the exec's control the money...which means most of the government..(I'm not sure how but maybe through political contributions?)...which means most of PRIVATE and PUBLIC funding....so my idea wouldn't make it that far (to mass production).

Is this really going on? Are there ideas and inventions like my "made-up" one being squashed like you say? If this is the case we're in bad shape. What happens when they can't get funding because of what you say is happening? Do the inventors just shelve their inventions? It seems like in this age of the internet with youtube and such, the news of government squashing funding for potential energy saving/green energy devices would be all over the place.

Surely if someone had such a machine as mine, they could get it to someone like Al Gore or Kevin Costner and let them get the word out for funding from their end.

I remember a man from Mississippi in the mid 70's said he invented an energy machine that would produce more energy than it used. About two years ago he actually trucked out the machine.(it is huge). I saw it on youtube but can't seem to find it now. It looked like a big turbine. He had several small 9volt batteries hooked to it. (the smoke detector type). When he closed the circuit, the "turbine" started turning. He had guages on it that showed if was outputting more power/energy than the 9volt batteries could possible be putting out.

However, he would not let anyone see the inside to examine the process. Is this guy still around? I wonder if his machine really worked and he couldn't get funding...that would be a shame.

Originally posted by tehben:

So have you invented this awesome device!?
Did you have luck finding research money and funding for development?
Did you find a manufacturing facility to mass produce it to make it that cheap?

The oil exec's control most of the money, which means most of the government which means most private and public funding which means, yes, they most likely would stop you because you most likely wouldn't make it that far....

Originally posted by kenskid:
Our homes in the south are powered by electricty. We get it from burning natural gas..that boils water...that makes steam...that spins turbines.

Lets say that I invent some kind of solar device that is small (three square feet). It will power your house completly all day. While it is powering your house, it is also charging a battery (for night power). It will last 5 years without needing to be replaced.

I can make this device for $500. Lets say in the free market customers will pay whatever their current 2 year electric bill is. So they get 3 years of electricty free.

What can the big oil companies do to stop me? Run ads saying how bad my device is? But lets say it works great for 5 years...what then? I don't think they can do anything that could stop this clean device...except...

....pay me a few billion for the patent and shelve it ! :)

Originally posted by tehben:
[quote=kenskid] Is there any alternative energy that will put a dent...say 25% in the oil we use?

[quote=tehben] About time this country stops drilling for oil and starts pursuing alternative environmentally friendly and sustainable energy sources.

[quote=kenskid] The Obama doesn't know what he is talking about...all drilling is stopped at this point.

For electricity production, yes. Wind, solar, geothermal, hydro....
If the oil industry wasn't a multi billion dollar industry that is capable of suppressing competing technology and warping the American mindset to make us heavy consumers we wouldn't need all the oil we use and we would be much better off.
The US is the 10th highest energy user per capita behind some middle east countries and mainly northern europe and Canada.
DOE graph of our energy usage

06/04/2010 10:49:34 AM · #44

My god...you own some RIG stock? I can't believe you haven't been pummeled with bricks yet. ;-).

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I happen to own some RIG stock so I pay attention to these things, but no single rig is earning $1.5 million/day. Current day rates are in the $350-$400,000/day range on average for the deepest water ships. Not chump change, but 1/5th of what is being quoted here.

Rig Day Rates

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Leica 50mm f/1.4 Summilux M MF - Chrome

06/04/2010 11:35:10 AM · #45

Originally posted by kenskid:

My god...you own some RIG stock? I can't believe you haven't been pummeled with bricks yet. ;-).

The price drop has been pummelling enough... ;)

signal2noise

Leica M9

06/04/2010 11:38:19 AM · #46

The politicizing of this issue is incredibly curious. This is an industrial accident of the worst kind and with the absolute worst timing... not to say there's ever good timing for something of this nature. It's not government failure, it's not environmental activism, it's not sabotage, it's not terrorism. It's an industrial accident, the likes of which we have never seen.

As many of you know, I am a policy, government and public affairs rep a "big oil" company. Our group's president was named to Obama's investigation team and the group I represent (R&D) has several scientists and engineers seconded to the BP coordination team trying to seal this rupture. What follows is merely my opinion and not company position.

As some have said, the best and brightest people in the world (from industry, academia, national labs, military and policy makers)are working this issue, and it is consuming them. No one involved has taken a cavalier approach to finding a solution and the attention to detail has been remarkable. No one is happy this occured and no one wants it to continue. What is truly scary is that this incredibly intelligent group has yet to discover a final solution other than the relief wells. That should frighten everyone. That basis alone make the legislative action of halting all deepwater drilling until verifyable, preventable solutions are in place a very prudent action. No one wants to see anyone lose their jobs, but jobs in lieu safety and environmental concerns is incredibly short-sighted. Many argue that this spill was preventable - it was - but it also exposed numerous gaps in what we thought were full-proof and fail-safe procedures and those need to be remedied immediately. The day this happened, our company did an immediate safety stand-down to see if there was a similar potentional in our deepwater operations.

The anger and frustration that people feel on all sides of this issue are understandable, but all the speculation of "doing this vs. this" and that it's anyone's fault beyond the lease holder/operator is completely misplaced.

Today's activity seems to be helping to capture more of the release, but nothing will be final,it appears, until the relief wells hit target.

I always thought one major incident in a critical marine environment would end all offshore activity - at least deepwater activity. While I'm glad I was wrong about that, clearly we need more regulation and oversight as we venture into the exploration of more challenging reservoirs.

Apple iPhone 5

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

06/04/2010 11:55:30 AM · #47

Originally posted by signal2noise:

It's an industrial accident, the likes of which we have never seen.

Apart from Chernobyl.

And Union Carbide / Bhopal.

eta: Sry, by 'we' did you mean the US?

Message edited by author 2010-06-04 11:56:09.

signal2noise

Leica M9

Leica 50mm f/1.4 Summilux M MF - Chrome

06/04/2010 11:59:52 AM · #48

Originally posted by JH:

Originally posted by signal2noise:
It's an industrial accident, the likes of which we have never seen.

Apart from Chernobyl.

And Union Carbide / Bhopal.

eta: Sry, by 'we' did you mean the US?

Sorry JH, I meant our industry. Yes, there have been much greater industrial accidents in terms of loss of life, though I believe in environmental damage this will eclipse most others when it is all settled.

Message edited by author 2010-06-04 12:00:14.

luvmyaussie

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro

06/04/2010 12:03:59 PM · #49

Originally posted by Jac:

Your comment isn't really worth commenting on except to point out the oxymoron (stress is on moron) you have going. You are disgusted in seeing humans kill this planet, yet we need more disasters? *rolling eyes* Apparently, it's not only oil rigs that spew...

Citadel

Nikon D7500