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 10/12/2004 02:25:06 AM · #1
My heart is low and my thoughts are heavy as I read all of these political ârantâ threads. I can not help but feel the hatred and be engulfed by the energy that is behind all who stir animosity and breed contempt. I do not challenge you intelligence nor do I discard your efforts. I know your passion and I know your burdens. This day we are in, is of dissatisfaction to many. I agree. However we all endure the shortcomings of others as many endure our inadequacies. I ask you to entertain a few questions:

- By participating in non constructive dialogue, do I better anyone?
- Am I a contributing member of our beautiful country?
- Are my vast political cut and paste battles falling on deaf ears?
- If I were to redirect my energy form the internet to my community, would more benefit?
- Am I proud to be an American?

I ask these because I believe we need to look far deeper into ourselves than we are into others. You can not change the world, however you can change yourself. Friends, our beloved America needs Americans. There are plenty of people to point the finger, shift the blame and elude the truth. If you embrace this great land and cherish your freedom, you need not kick her when she is down. Every day you wake, you have been given a gift by those who have died for it. Do not let your spite mask the sacrifices by others you reap. There is too much to be grateful for.

Motivations of my rant are fueled by love for my best friend who lost his life less than a year ago in Baghdad.



10/12/2004 09:23:30 PM · #2
Iâm surprised to see nobody has commented on this, being as far as I know, your the only person on DPC who has lost (or at least vocalized a loss) of a loved one in the Iraq War.

Being as I donât know what its like to feel a loss like that; I cant pretend to understand how its fully affected your opinions on the US and this war. However, IMO, to base pure emotion as your motive to say what you say and appear to back the US no matter what, is wrong thinking.

But be clear on something: Do not confuse criticism of the US Government and its president as hatred.
When you are hard on your little brother in looking out for him, do you do it out of hate? Of course not, its out of love.

Now to answer your questions.

1. It only becomes non constructive when people go from discussing issues and facts to personal attacks and negative comments. Unfortunately, it is human nature to digress to the ladder.
2. I definitely consider myself a contributing member of the US. From getting Bolo (our 84 year old grandfather) to cut out drinking Cokes, to opening the eyes of 2 co-workers who previously would have voted Bush, to recycling all things I can.
3. Most of my political battles do fall on deaf ears ive come to finally accept. Its an unfortunate human quality to disregard information contrary to ones already preconceived opinions and ideas.
4. Yes, it would.
5. Yes and no. The ideals and ways in which the US was founded were ground breaking for their time, yes. What the US has evolved into since the start of the industrial revolution and especially in the last few years, no.

So in closing, I know you told me you donât read when I showed you this book, but I implore you to read the Pulitzer Prize winner, The Prize to understand what motivates all industrial nations in this world of energy abuse.

And remember..

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, it is morally treasonable to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt.

Message edited by author 2004-10-12 21:29:10.
 10/21/2004 12:22:56 AM · #3
one one person will reply?

Thanks cuz.
 10/28/2004 11:52:33 PM · #4
My condolences to you for your loss of your best friend. I too have lost a close friend back in the early 80's as he was killed when attacked on his way home from a bank by a thief. It was very difficult for me to deal with as the anger and sadness lasted a long time.

In partaking in the political rant threads on DPC I believe that we are looking deep within ourselves as a nation. When a person looks deep within oneself he/she is also looking at how they relate to the world. We are doing the same thing in a political rant, but it applies to us as a nation. All voices/sides of the nation need to partake in order for everyone to be heard and have a say as to how the nation is behave. This is especially true in a democracy.

I do also believe that we CAN, in fact, change the world, not just ourselves. As we have to take responsibility for own personal actions, so too we have to be accountible of our actions as a nation and as citizens within our nation. We should expect nothing less of our elected leaders. When one recedes and allows others to have a say as to how the nation is to be run then it becomes that much less of a democracy. When we criticize the government or elected officials it's not the same as "kicking America when she's down." Dissent within a democracy is a good thing and is to be valued as much as voting. It is the flexing of our rights of free speech and is an attempt to keep our elected officials honest, which many, republicans, as well as, democrats, have not been. This is a way of participating in our democracy. Human nature is corruptible in the best of us and has to be monitored and dealt with. That is what a democracy does. I can tell you that I do redirect my energies outwards to the community and have done so for many years and am sure many of the posters in political rant on both sides of the debate do the same.

I am very grateful for living within the United States and love this country immensely. Hopefully that passion for my country shows in my rantings, and not just my anger at her injustices. I am also grateful for our military personnel who have valiently defended and fought for our land and the high regard we put on the principles in The Constitution and Bill of Rights.

10/29/2004 12:09:56 AM · #5
As I drive down the road and see the hoards of political signs (and there are alot of them), I have thought of this thread often.

The current campaigning (not just presidential) across the board saddens me greatly. It seems as if the candidates themselves are telling us, "Choose the lesser of two evils." That is sad. In our area, we have many many heated races. And they are ugly.

I am also saddened because never before have I seen such hatred (yes, a strong word, but an apt description, I believe) of those in opposition. Not just on dpc -- it is mild here. Accusations run high, almost to the level of paranoia. There is no respect of personal property (sign stealing and vandalism seems to be the popular sport here), and no respect of opinion. "You either believe like me or you are a blooming idiot" seems to be the belief of the moment.

Will it get better after the election is over? I highly doubt it. Unless there is a landslide victory for one candidate or the other (which I highly doubt), I think both sides will cry or insinuate foul. Whoever is elected President gets the dubious honor of having a divided nation. That can't be fun, under the best of circumstances.

AND, perhaps what disturbs me the most, is that from what I have seen on these forums and other places, there will be no unity after the election. I have always believed that regardless of who I vote for, I am to respect the office of President of the United States.(And there have been some years that this was exceedingly difficult) There are Kerry supporters that will consider him their president, even if Bush is elected, and there are Bush supporters that will consider him their president if Kerry is elected. Then, for four years they will go on and on and on about how different it would have been -- if only.

I know that is pessimistic, but frankly, I'm not looking forward to the election or the outcomes, whatever they may be.

And all the while, we seem to be forgetting a big picture.
 10/29/2004 01:00:16 AM · #6
You are very right in pointing the kind thoughts of aspiration.

I too have lost because I live and use the Path NJ-NY transport and there is no way that 9/11 could have passed me and friends and family by. I almost got caught there on that horrid morning.

If you examine the threads what you see are two parties going at it. One party feels that we were attacked and so retaliation to defuse the Islamic Terroist is in order.

The other group does not even believe that we are in a war or that if we were attacked that we deserved it, or that in some way we asked for it. We were joined for a moment right after 9/11 but then there is a political battle and a presidential election that has brought out the extreme left and what they opted to do was to discredit the current administration. In doing so they find no reason why we brought the battle over to the Islamic Terroist World. Everything in their mind is being done for oil. Just this phrase discredits the soldiers that have given their life. Read the post and you will see not debate for these people do not even know what it is they stand for. They still think that Gore won the election. It goes on and on.

And you are right. The two sides are sharply divided and there is no meeting ground. It is simply the difference between the capitalist and the socialist.

The socialist say they love this country, what they mean is once they change it to their view then all is well. Meanwhile we are evil, we are to defend ourselves according to their precepts.

Yes, this is a great country but the left (socialist) continue to grow and as of right now they can not use the popular vote to get their way and so they use the activist judges. This philosophy is already implanted and admistered by the many leftish professors along with the growing amount of activist judges which aims to undo our constitution.

Since the movement is so big it can not be easily dismissed and like the good zealots that they are, they believe to be annointed with the mission to change the face of America towards an intellectual socialist mentality.

The other side fights tooth and nail to avoid this change because they believe that what made America great is its constitution and capitalism.

Well, here in a nutshell you see that these are two powerful forces with different inherent philosophies that fight for the power to govern. The Left wants more activist judges in the Supreme Court and the right wants judges that will not overturn the constitution.

The right is pretty straight forward in what it believes, the left varies because it is beset with so many subversive groups and many will not even admit that they lean towards socialism, yet they are not ashamed to say they want socilialised this and that.

I offer you my condolance and I can see where you are coming from and I feel your consternation in reading over these threads. I said I would not engage again but everytime I see the persistence, I feel the need to defend my flag. Your plea will be humored by many, but these folks have a mission to knock America into the ground.

Message edited by author 2004-10-29 01:03:26.
 10/29/2004 01:06:34 AM · #7
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
You are very right in pointing the kind thoughts of aspiration.

I too have lost because I live and use the Path NJ-NY transport and there is no way that 9/11 could have passed me and friends and family by. I almost got caught there on that horrid morning.

If you examine the threads what you see are two parties going at it. One party feels that we were attacked and so retaliation to defuse the Islamic Terroist is in order.

The other group does not even believe that we are in a war or that if we were attacked that we deserved it, or that in some way we asked for it. We were joined for a moment right after 9/11 but then there is a political battle and a presidential election that has brought out the extreme left and what they opted to do was to discredit the current administration. In doing so they find no reason why we brought the battle over to the Islamic Terroist World. Everything in their mind is being done for oil. Just this phrase discredits the soldiers that have given their life. Read the post and you will see not debate for these people do not even know what it is they stand for. They still think that Gore won the election. It goes on and on.


There are also those of us (most Democrats) who believe that we were attacked, that retaliation to defuse the terrorists is in order, but that the current administration, rather than focusing on that task, has sidetracked itself on a marginally related war that diverts scarce resources from the actual tasks at hand, specifically, defeating known terrorists and securing our borders from future attacks.

-Terry
 10/29/2004 01:25:44 AM · #8
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
You are very right in pointing the kind thoughts of aspiration.

I too have lost because I live and use the Path NJ-NY transport and there is no way that 9/11 could have passed me and friends and family by. I almost got caught there on that horrid morning.

If you examine the threads what you see are two parties going at it. One party feels that we were attacked and so retaliation to defuse the Islamic Terroist is in order.

The other group does not even believe that we are in a war or that if we were attacked that we deserved it, or that in some way we asked for it. We were joined for a moment right after 9/11 but then there is a political battle and a presidential election that has brought out the extreme left and what they opted to do was to discredit the current administration. In doing so they find no reason why we brought the battle over to the Islamic Terroist World. Everything in their mind is being done for oil. Just this phrase discredits the soldiers that have given their life. Read the post and you will see not debate for these people do not even know what it is they stand for. They still think that Gore won the election. It goes on and on.


There are also those of us (most Democrats) who believe that we were attacked, that retaliation to defuse the terrorists is in order, but that the current administration, rather than focusing on that task, has sidetracked itself on a marginally related war that diverts scarce resources from the actual tasks at hand, specifically, defeating known terrorists and securing our borders from future attacks.

-Terry

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Like I said. You want us to defend ourselves according to your way. Can you not admit that we have put away a great number of terrorists once we brought the war to their part of the map. They are all over. The fact that the attack on Iraq has made Lybia surrender means nothing. that sadam and sons are down is nothing. That elections are taking place is nothing. Can no nobody see that bringing freedom there is the only way that it will someday stop these people from learning to hate and kill the West from their cribs?

You see, it is just a difference in philosophy. You stick with the Clinton Doctrine to treat it as criminal by catching the doers. We know the doers are spread all over and by bringing the war to their faces we begin to reduce the arsenal. Count the attacks we have suffered. This is a war. Just how have you would have dealt with the oils for food?

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