Problems with Digital Photography: Color & Light

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

10/19/2004 01:18:05 AM · #26

Originally posted by AndrewTO:

Will the Cokin system work with Olympus E20N ? What do I need to get ? A filter, a holder and a ring for each of my lenses ? Correct ?

As long as you can attach regular filters you can use the cokin system. You just need the holder, ring adapter for each lens size that you have and of course the filters.

Olyuzi

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7

10/19/2004 01:22:24 AM · #27

Mirdonamy, I think, Yes, ND filters would have helped as they would balance out the sky with the cityscape. I think it's a good idea to find out exactly what your cameras dynamic range is by shooting a grey card under stable light conditions (say an overcast day) and then exposing each picture by a third of a stop difference so that you know exactly how many stops exist before your hightlights are blown out, or your shadows start to block up. Then, when you get to a scene with extremes like this one, spot meter the brightest highlight you can find, and the darkest shadow you can find and see if there is a greater difference in the scene than your camera can handle. If they are greater than you will have to decide to either use graduated ND filters or decide on if you are more willing to let some of the highlights get blown, or some of the shadows block up. That will be a creative decision on your part. Or, you can just do the composite as was discussed above. One more option you could have tried with your camera is to use the (included with the 20D) B&W filters, since these shots appear to be more monochrome. Even though they would be applied to the entire image, they may do the trick in solving your problem. Hope this helped.

10/19/2004 01:59:24 AM · #28

You all have been very helpful. I don't really know what you mean by spot-meter, Olyuzi, but everything else makes sense (I think) :) So, wish me luck!!! I need to go get an ND filter now... eeek! I hope they aren't expensive or I'll have to wait a few months.

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

10/19/2004 02:07:04 AM · #29

Originally posted by mirdonamy:

Unless Canon changed from the 10D to the 20D, the 20D only has partial metering, not spot. However, partial metering can be considered a large spot. What this mode does is meter only on the part of the frame within the circle in the viewfinder.

Olyuzi

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7

10/19/2004 02:11:27 AM · #30

Originally posted by mirdonamy:

If you're buying the Cokin system ND filters they cost about $15 at B&H...no more. But you'll also have to buy the ring adapter (sized to the lens' threads that you'll be using) and the filter holder. The ND filters come in 3 different strengths in one stop differences. If you purchased all three I think you would pay about $65 USD. Good luck with your purchases and photographing.

doctornick

Apple iPhone 13 Pro

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

10/19/2004 09:06:50 AM · #31

Originally posted by mirdonamy:

Make sure it's a Graduated Neutral Density filter.

Message edited by author 2004-10-19 09:08:04.

cghubbell

Nikon D300

10/19/2004 09:20:53 AM · #32

Originally posted by mirdonamy:

Understanding the metering system you are using is a very important part of getting those exposures within an acceptable range. Most modern cameras have the equivalent of 3 metering modes: matrix metering will look at all pixels in the viewfinder and "average" them to create an exposure, center weighted will look at a small area near the active focus point (or center), and spot metering will only analyze the light in a tiny dot ignoring all other areas.

In general I find that once you understand spot metering you have much better control over your exposures because you control exactly what the camera is metering from. It definitely takes some practice to identify a natural neutral gray, but its worth the time to learn. These days I only use matrix metering for point n shoot, or times where the light is variable and my subjects are moving around.

Another thign you can do is throw your camera into spot meter mode and meter off the darkest part of your composition you want to retain detail in, then meter off the brightest area you want to retain detail in. If there are more than 4 stop of exposure between the values you know you need to use a ND filter or wait for different light.

Hope this helps!

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

10/19/2004 12:56:56 PM · #33

My 20D doesn't have spot metering, and I believe I fully understand the concept. I can use the partial metering though, with a constant shutter speed, to see the difference in fstop for the light and dark areas of my photo. If it's more than 4, you say I should use an ND filter, but what if it's less than 4, can I still use the ND filter? Or is there something better I should try?

Olyuzi

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7

10/19/2004 01:24:45 PM · #34

Give the B&W filters a try. They are included with your camera and they may just darken the sky without effecting the lower half.

Originally posted by mirdonamy:

alanbataar

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Lensbaby 1.0 (The Original)

10/19/2004 01:31:02 PM · #35

Sorry to throw in a late comment about histograms... A shortcoming in the above-linked article about histograms is that a basic definition is missing. A histogram is an ACCOUNTING of pixel color values SORTED by value. Here's an analogy that I've used when teaching Photoshop: imagine that each color value of pixel is represented by a unique color of poker chip. There are 256 possible values for pixels, and 256 colors of poker chips. A 10" x 12" photo at 200dpi would have a grand total of 24,000 individual pixels, each pixel having a value between 0 and 255. Next, imagine that you take all the poker chips out of your photo and dump them on the floor. Now, patiently stack up all of the same-colored poker chips into 256 separate stacks, one stack of chips for each color. A histogram is what you get if you arrange the stacks dark-to-light: an ACCOUNTING of pixel color values SORTED by value.

10/19/2004 01:52:52 PM · #36

Very interesting analogy. I really hope to understand how to read Histograms better soon. I know when something is "blown out" it means there's too much of peak in one section, right? Ugh, I need private lessons! haha

10/19/2004 03:59:37 PM · #37

Originally posted by mirdonamy:

Actually, the highlights are blown if you have a spike on the right (at the edge). The shadows have blocked up if there's a spike on the left (at the edge).

Nusbaum

Fujifilm X-T1

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

10/19/2004 04:22:28 PM · #38

If the histogram on the 20D matches the 10D, you can have the blown out areas flash as a warning. On thing I have learned to do on the 10D is to keep checking the histogram that pops up after a shot is taken. If there is something flashing, I dial in some exposure compensation. It's much easier to recover shadows than it is to recover the blown out area.

10/19/2004 04:24:47 PM · #39

I should set my camera to show me the histogram. Right now, it just previews the photo taken. Cool, thanks. cpanaioti, thanks for the right/left notes. I will keep that in mind!

toad32

Nikon D300

10/19/2004 05:55:40 PM · #40

Originally posted by mirdonamy:

Here are some very sad photos from my trip out to photograph the clouds. Do you think an ND filter would have helped?

No question about it...a ND grad would have made a huge difference in these shots. You basically set the exposure to the sky...as a result you have inky black land. If you have a handful of nd filters 1, 2 and 3 stops you can shoot in most any light condition. The nd's knock the light leve down in the sky so you can get proper exposure in the sky and ground.

If you want to read a bit more about the Cokin system...here is a good site. //www.geocities.com/cokinfiltersystem/index.htm

10/19/2004 07:10:03 PM · #41

Thanks Toad32, what a great site! so, which filters do i need again? I see you all say Graduated ND, but I don't see it on this list: //www.geocities.com/cokinfiltersystem/exposure_.htm

Okay, so, I found this: //www.geocities.com/cokinfiltersystem//store/id211.htm but which ones would help me? I really don't want to buy all of them! Also, how does it work if my skyline is not in the center of my frame? What if it's 1/3 ?

Message edited by author 2004-10-19 19:13:57.

10/19/2004 07:12:33 PM · #42

Originally posted by mirdonamy:

Thanks Toad32, what a great site! so, which filters do i need again? I see you all say Graduated ND, but I don't see it on this list: //www.geocities.com/cokinfiltersystem/exposure_.htm

The graduated filters are listed as Gradual . For most situations you should choose Grey (120/121). The colours are used for special effects.

The full ND filters are listed as Grey ND.

Message edited by author 2004-10-19 19:14:20.

10/19/2004 07:17:51 PM · #43

Thank you, I will look into those (120 & 121). So, what about the rule of 3rds? How does that work with the Cokin system since the filters tend to be almost 50%/50% from the images I see.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

10/19/2004 07:21:20 PM · #44

Originally posted by mirdonamy:

Thank you, I will look into those (120 & 121). So, what about the rule of 3rds? How does that work with the Cokin system since the filters tend to be almost 50%/50% from the images I see.

You can slide the gradation line to whereever you need it in the image. This is the advantage of cokin over screw in graduated filters.

I would suggest the P series cokin system since it allows for lenses with larger filter threads (> 58mm).

Message edited by author 2004-10-19 19:28:55.

oksamit

Canon EOS-30D

10/19/2004 11:18:34 PM · #45

Originally posted by mirdonamy:

I went out to take photos of the incoming rain clouds over the San Gabriel mountains, and all of my photos came out very drab. With my eye, I could see greens and browns (trees) and buildings and homes (all colors) and the clouds were puffy, grey & white, with rays of the sun shining through. It was so beautiful to look at, but my photos came out so boring and over or underexposed in areas. I could not get an even exposure (to match what i was seeing with my eyes), but I used to when I used my Canon Elan EOS iie 35mm camera. Is it me or my 20D? I tried all three types of metering, I was using manual settings (i tried bracketing, I tried open and closed and normal aperatures, I tried various speeds, I tried over and underexposing, I increased the color and saturation parameters, I tried different 'film' speeds too to see if i could do a longer exposure. Nothing worked... :( I will try to post a photo later, but i don't have them with me at work. I am just frustrated. Any ideas what I should try or what is causing this?

Hi iam just try to fix your Photo if you dont mind

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

10/20/2004 07:12:51 PM · #46

Originally posted by oksamit:

Hi iam just try to fix your Photo if you dont mind

How'd you do that? It is a bit pixelated, but 100 times better than I could do with PS. Please, do tell!!!

oksamit

Canon EOS-30D

10/21/2004 01:59:40 PM · #47

Originally posted by mirdonamy:

Originally posted by oksamit:
Hi iam just try to fix your Photo if you dont mind

How'd you do that? It is a bit pixelated, but 100 times better than I could do with PS. Please, do tell!!!

Ok Ok

Master saturation +27
Green saturation +30
Yelov saturation +12
Blue saturation +17
Red saturation +15

And burn midtones +12 only the sky.

So PS is good!!! I like it.

oksamit

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

10/21/2004 06:45:06 PM · #48

dodje +5
and

neat image

10/21/2004 06:47:39 PM · #49

Originally posted by oksamit:

dodje +5
and
neat image

Neat Image did not do this one justice. The first is much better. It's a beautiful image of Mirdonamy's. Good capture of the rays of sun.