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10/06/2004 03:41:13 AM · #26 |
From Democracynow.org
"Rumsfeld: No Link Between Iraq & Al Qaeda
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld admitted yesterday that he has not seen any hard evidence that links Saddam Hussein with Al Qaeda. At an event hosted by the Council on Foreign Relations, Rumsfeld said "To my knowledge, I have not seen any strong, hard evidence that links the two." That was Donald Rumsfeld speaking yesterday. Two years ago, in the lead-up to the Iraq invasion, Rumsfeld claimed the U.S. had credible information that Al-Qaeda leaders had sought contacts in Iraq who could help them acquire weapons of mass destruction. He also said in 2002, "solid evidence" showed that there were senior Al-Qaeda members in Iraq."
Message edited by author 2004-10-06 03:54:13. |
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10/06/2004 10:59:51 AM · #27 |
I̢۪m still waiting for a Bush supporter to comment on the 15-page article. Or silence could also mean they have read it and, understandably, don̢۪t want to.
Another article to go along w/ Olyuzi's last one: Report: No WMD stockpiles in Iraq |
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10/06/2004 02:24:09 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by gingerbaker:
First of all, losing merely hastens the time when they will be prosecuted for war crimes. I am serious about this.
Secondly, these folks, in my opinion, care not at all about helping the public, or their fellow man. They play this game for the spoils. And they HATE to lose.
I think we should not be misled by Cheney's lack of vigor - it probably was a health issue not even a good sit in a chair could disguise. Karl Rove, Cheney, and the Petulant One are on a mission to secure their butts from a prison cell, and they know it, IMO, and will do anything at all to stay in power.
War crimes:
//msnbc.msn.com/id/4999734/site/newsweek/
//www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040314a5.htm
//www.ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=22018
//www.counterpunch.org/stephens05202004.html
//www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/attack/law/2003/0128uslawyers.htm
//www.truthout.org/docs_04/092004A.shtml
//www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_11-9-2003_pg7_6 |
I thought this was a very relivent post to use on a more subject related thread, hope you dont mind gingerbaker. |
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10/06/2004 02:36:23 PM · #29 |
I haven't seen anyone dispute this either. Clearly Saddam had several big bombs.
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10/06/2004 10:46:28 PM · #30 |
haha louddog, nice.
I thought this editorial was relivent Stop Thinking, and See What You're Told .
Anyone taken a gander yet at the 15 page article? Going on day 5 here.. |
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10/07/2004 02:17:59 AM · #31 |
Start thinking, and listen to what Kerry said! |
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10/08/2004 05:28:21 PM · #32 |
The one thing that troubles me is that John Kerry, who supported the Iraq war based on the SAME EVIDENCE that Bush saw, is now criticizing the war itself. It seems that John Kerry just blows with where political wind is.
Let's not forget -- Bush got the goahead from CONGRESS, where they are privy to the same intelligence that Bush got. Democrats voted for the war, including Kerry based on the evidence at the time.
The fact remains that Hussein violated 12 years of UN sanctions and denied weapon inspectors to look through his stock pile. UN isn' going to do anything about it -- they're totally ineffective as an organization.
The problem iwth Iraq's insurgence is that Bush didn't hit them hard enough, the way Japan and Germany was hit by the allies (Germany - 90% of cities destroyed. Japan - 70%). You have to hit them to submission before you can secure the peace. Baghdad should have been LEVELD before the troops goes in. Don't fight war politically correct -- fight it RAW, and medieval. That's the only way.
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10/08/2004 05:36:22 PM · #33 |
paganini, I point you to the truth about that "evidence".
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
The NY Times today put out a 15 page article entitled Skewed Intelligence Data in March to War in Iraq. (if you dont/wont register for NYTimes you can view the article here.)
I HIGHLY recommend people read this to see more insight into how the Bush administration does business and the BS they pushed as evidence to convince America and the world to invade Iraq.
A ralated picture to the 1st part of the article speaking of the aluminum tubes the Bush administration pushed as proof here.
Also, another article speaking of the pre-war information known but ignored, Prewar Assessment on Iraq Saw Chance of Strong Divisions. |
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10/08/2004 05:39:42 PM · #34 |
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10/08/2004 07:41:04 PM · #35 |
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10/11/2004 01:19:04 PM · #36 |
| Who hijacked my thread? How did my thread about FDR and WWII turn into this? |
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10/11/2004 01:59:38 PM · #37 |
| Who hijacked my country?! ans. neocon republican't conservatives. |
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10/11/2004 03:56:08 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
republican't conservatives. |
This comming from someone who belongs to a party who's leaders pray America falls into the shitter so they can come back into power. |
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10/11/2004 06:10:45 PM · #39 |
Does anyone sees it as a religious war?
Considering how our President is a religious zealot himself. |
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10/11/2004 06:52:32 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by dimitrii:
Does anyone sees it as a religious war?
Considering how our President is a religious zealot himself. |
The terrorists see it as a religious war. |
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10/11/2004 07:48:50 PM · #41 |
Your presidents are almost never right, they are/were just presidents of the greatest power, wich makes them "right". Your presidents were the only ones to ever use an atomic bomb against another country, your presidents has betrayed the entire estern europe and sold it to Stalin, your presidents sent your fellow citizens to die in Vietnam, and not even today is entirely clear why, same goes one today in Iraqui only this time everyone knows why. There is a bigger list of small totaly powerless 3'd world country where children step on US Army mines, countries that never even had an army, verry far from ever being a threat to your country, but new weapons need to be tested somehow don't they? ... they are/were right in all these things because they are powerful and everyone who dares to disagree were comunists until the cold war ended, and after that terrorists or terrorist helpers. America is becoming the villain of the world like it or not, and villains are always "right" when they are strong. I'm not an american hater, it's just the way I see things and I really hope America will wake up from this before it is too late. I can't even imagine what will happen otherways but nothing good I'm sure of that.
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10/11/2004 09:28:17 PM · #42 |
No, you should be banned from the site for a while.
btw, I said repremEnded not repremAnded. there is a difference
Message edited by author 2004-10-11 21:32:34. |
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10/11/2004 10:07:22 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
Your presidents are almost never right, they are/were just presidents of the greatest power, wich makes them "right". Your presidents were the only ones to ever use an atomic bomb against another country, your presidents has betrayed the entire estern europe and sold it to Stalin, your presidents sent your fellow citizens to die in Vietnam, and not even today is entirely clear why, same goes one today in Iraqui only this time everyone knows why. There is a bigger list of small totaly powerless 3'd world country where children step on US Army mines, countries that never even had an army, verry far from ever being a threat to your country, but new weapons need to be tested somehow don't they? ... they are/were right in all these things because they are powerful and everyone who dares to disagree were comunists until the cold war ended, and after that terrorists or terrorist helpers. America is becoming the villain of the world like it or not, and villains are always "right" when they are strong. I'm not an american hater, it's just the way I see things and I really hope America will wake up from this before it is too late. I can't even imagine what will happen otherways but nothing good I'm sure of that. |
This is unfortunately very true. I too am scared that this pattern will continue until another world war. The waking up you speak of has started; though it̢۪s slow to start and has far to go. |
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10/11/2004 11:41:36 PM · #44 |
I'm not even sure how to touch something as ignorant filled as frumoaznicul's post... Are you kiding me? I mean, some of it's true if you twist it enough on a full red moon, but jesus.... Hate filled POS.... To pick out a couple, the A-Bomb was a good thing and it saved hundreds of thousands of lives (FACT), very few people are stepping on USA Mines in comparison to ones laid by other countries plus we are taking the biggest steps to remove our mines AND we are not villians... I also don't think we are the ones that need waking (notice I used the phrase think).
I've traveled the world and found that everyone has a pretty jaded view of everyone else, but only in my traveles to Europe have I found a pure assimilation into hatred for another country, The United States...
Why is it that everything socialist related teaches people to be pathetic and blame problems on other people (mostly those better off or more powerful).
Message edited by author 2004-10-11 23:43:55.
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10/12/2004 03:28:26 AM · #45 |
I'm sorry to have to tell you this but an ATOMIC BOMB saving lives??? You are sick!!! I'm not even trying to reply to you further because what I said are historical facts and what you said are Hollywood movies so enjoy your ignorance. I just hope an atomic bomb won't "save" the lifes of your children in the future.
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10/12/2004 08:52:19 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
I'm sorry to have to tell you this but an ATOMIC BOMB saving lives??? You are sick!!! |
Here is reasoning that I won't bother to rewrite. I AM RIGHT, using statistics in this matter might be cold and calculated, but fact is fact.
Link 1
Link 2
Link 3
I really hope you read these, and if you want even more, check google out...
//www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=atomic+bombs+in+Japan+saved+lives&btnG=Search |
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10/12/2004 05:43:09 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
...your presidents has betrayed the entire estern europe and sold it to Stalin, your presidents sent your fellow citizens to die in Vietnam, and not even today is entirely clear why... |
Amazing! In one sentence you managed to blame America for letting Eastern Europe fall to communism and then turn around and criticize America for trying to prevent the same fate for Vietnam. What a hypocrite. |
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10/12/2004 06:25:35 PM · #48 |
The 2 things are completely different and have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with eachother. During world warII many east european countries (eith or without theyr will) where fighting against the allies, together with the germans. Somewhere in the middle of the war, america and uk kinda promissed them protection if they turn against germany. And they did. My granfather died, still saying "the americans will come and save us" but they never did. Even the BBC radio that time broadcasted all day long the war propaganda "Romanians (for example) switch sides and we promisse you freedom..." and crap like that. When the war ended it whas all forgoten, they sold us all to Stalin while they started huge billions of dollarson marshall plans across the entire western europe. The result of that whas that my country and others from being one of the richest and civilized in the area, degraded until the stage of a 3'rd world country from where it tryes it's best to climb back up today alone still with not much help atleast nothing comparable to the marshall plans I whas talking about. Thousands of romanian soldiers died helping USA and the allies to win world war II, and I'm not so sure as Russell2566 is about his bomb, but it is possible that without the east europe turning around germans would of won. Atleast that whas the first big hit to the germans wich started pushing them backwards. Fact is that when I ask my grand mother to tell me stories from the war when she talks about the german soldiers, she smiles and she remembers theyr names, and she insists that they were no way as bad as they are painted today, but when it gets to the part when the russians came in, she cries a bounch and she insists taht whas horrible, she never told me but I think they raped her or something because she is horrified whenever taht comes up. Instead of the promissed freedom, I got to be born in a country where life whas kind of like in a huge jail. I can tell you how that whas with more details if you are interested but I guess you are not.
So you see my non hypocrite friend, it's all a question of honor here and in this case (all true historical facts) america had none of that. The fact is that when the war started my country whas a free democratic fairly rich country, but when it ended we suddenly became communists, and you need to understand that in this part of the world there are a bounch of small countries that are never allowed to decide theyr own fate. The big powerful ones (USA, Russia, UK, EU recently) always decide theyr fate. When the war ended america whas at a point to decide our fate, and they decided. No matter how much I stretch my brains I can not see any connection between this situation and the one in Vietnam. Besides, even if there were a connection when I talked about east europe, I whas telling america whas wrong to do that to the east europeans, and when I talked about Vietnam I whas saying america whas wrong to do that to his own 1000's of soldiers who never came back from there.
Or maybe I'm just stupid and you need to help me see the connection between tha 2 of them. Please do so but do it with arguments, and proove me taht you know what you are talking about, and I mean real history here not what you know from the hollywood movies where americans are always heroes, and the atomic bomb saves lives. Please.
Message edited by author 2004-10-12 18:29:08.
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10/12/2004 06:46:27 PM · #49 |
@Russell - sure anyone can come up with theories about anything prooving write or wrong with alots of arguments. The only true fact that remains to me is that the atomic bomb is the most horrible and coward thing humainty ever invented, and america is the only country that ever used it for it's purpose. That it saved the lifes of the american soldiers that were suposed to fight there instead I belive you, but it didn't saved the lifes of inocent women and children that were on its way in Japan over. Aniways as I said there can be made theories about anything prooving anythink the theory maker whants, and if beliving them makes you feel better, go ahead I read those you posted and many more before, they never convinced me in any way that the use of an atomic bomb can be a good thing. Atleast alow me to hope that noone will use them again ever.
Message edited by author 2004-10-12 18:48:19.
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10/12/2004 06:53:40 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
Your presidents are almost never right... |
Was Woodrow Wilson wrong to offer his "Fourteen Points" as a basis for peace?
Was Franklin Delano Roosevelt wrong to get involved in WWII?
Was Harry Truman wrong to help protect South Korea from the invading north?
Was Harry Truman wrong to help establish NATO?
Was John F. Kennedy wrong to speak out at the Berlin wall?
Was Richard Nixon wrong to extend a hand to China?
Was Jimmy Carter wrong to broker an Egyptian-Israeli Peace Treaty?
Was Ronald Reagan wrong to standup to the Soviet Union?
Was Ronald Reagan wrong to call for Mikhail Gorbachev to tear down the Berlin wall?
Was George H.W. Bush wrong to help end the Cold War?
Was George H.W. Bush wrong to knock down Iraqi aggression in the first gulf war?
Was Bill Clinton wrong to send troops to assure peace in the Baltics?
Was George W. Bush wrong to free 50 million people from tyranny?
Message edited by author 2004-10-12 19:02:27. |
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