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09/24/2004 02:18:29 PM · #1 |
Bush supporters conveniently brush this aside:
Originally posted by bdobe:
NOTE THAT MOST AMERICANS, post 9/11, when we hear Al Queda, we automatically conjure images of 9/11. Therefore, if an elected official, say a VP or a President, were to actively link Iraq with Al Queda, then most of us would have naturally concluded: since, Al Queda = 9/11, therefore 9/11 = Iraq.
Now, those that still defend the administration will bend and twist to negate that such a link was ever made; however, we all know better than that: all we have to do is follow Mr. Cheney's advise, Look at the record. |
Unfortunately for them, it's not that easy and the public knows this.
And, of course, there's this:
According to the State Department, these are the countries that Al Queda Operated in as of Nov 10, 2001. Note that Iraq was not on the list back in 2001 (before the war):
Albania
Algeria
Afghanistan
Azerbaijan
Australia
Austria
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Belgium
Bosnia
Egypt
Eritrea
France
Germany
India
Iran
Ireland
Italy
Jordan
Kenya
Kosovo
Lebanon
Libya
Malaysia
Mauritania
Netherlands
Pakistan
Philippines
Qatar
Russia
Saudi Arabia
Somalia
South Africa
Sudan
Switzerland
Tajikistan
Tanzania
Tunisia
Turkey
Uganda
United Arab Emirates
United Kingdom
United States
Uzbekistan
Yemen
---------------------------------------
Official State Department page (published November 10, 2001):
//usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/terrornet/12.htm
Message edited by author 2004-10-07 13:45:10.
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09/24/2004 02:35:50 PM · #2 |
bdobe, who cares? Let's go out for some beer and tiddies! :-)
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09/24/2004 02:39:35 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by terje:
bdobe, who cares? Let's go out for some beer and tiddies! :-) |
Terje, I and millions more around the world care. Too many people have died for the wrong reasons -- at least as they were described to the American people before the invasion took place. You should care, too.
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09/24/2004 03:02:21 PM · #4 |
in space too!
 |
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09/24/2004 03:53:45 PM · #5 |
| So? Al-queda isn't the only terrorist organization. Sadam very much had ties with and provided support to terrorists, acoring to this 60 minutes report (if you can trust 60 minutes...): The Arafat Papers [his link with Iran and Iraq] |
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09/24/2004 04:37:20 PM · #6 |
To point out the err in this, Canada isn't on the list either and Quebec [among other places] is a well known hub of terrorist activity. Well not so much 'activity' as more of just a safe-haven.
Why do you think Canada got it's nose so far in the air when Al Queda groups were suspected [by the US] of crossing the border into the States from Canada?
Because alot of Canadians don't want to be connected with anything remotely to do with the US - and let's face it, the whole idea of 'terrorism' leads most finger-wagers to the US. |
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09/24/2004 05:04:09 PM · #7 |
| Add one more person and political rant thread I'm ignoring. Sorry. Just tired of all this nonsense. Go take pictures and talk about political crap elsewhere. |
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09/24/2004 05:06:36 PM · #8 |
So, it appears that we, as lay people, know better than the experts at the State Department that have devoted their lives and careers to the study of terrorism, politics and international relations. If anyone has information that would aid in the work of the State Department, please let them know:
//contact-us.state.gov/
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09/24/2004 05:19:38 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by bdobe:
So, it appears that we, as lay people, know better than the experts at the State Department that have devoted their lives and careers to the study of terrorism, politics and international relations. If anyone has information that would aid in the work of the State Department, please let them know:
//contact-us.state.gov/ |
LOL you may have a point. |
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09/24/2004 05:20:21 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by jimmyn4:
Add one more person and political rant thread I'm ignoring. Sorry. Just tired of all this nonsense. Go take pictures and talk about political crap elsewhere. |
We must have opposite definitions of 'ignore'.
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09/24/2004 06:52:33 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by bdobe:
So, it appears that we, as lay people, know better than the experts at the State Department that have devoted their lives and careers to the study of terrorism, politics and international relations. If anyone has information that would aid in the work of the State Department, please let them know:
//contact-us.state.gov/ |
We are fighting a war not just on Al Queda, but on terrorism. Saddam Hussein supported terrorists. So your implication is irrelevant. |
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09/24/2004 07:10:16 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by ScottK:
We are fighting a war not just on Al Queda, but on terrorism. Saddam Hussein supported terrorists. So your implication is irrelevant. |
I'm just taking Mr. Bush at his word:
"We have no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the 11 September attacks." Mr. Bush [ link ]
Of course, Mr. Bush also said:
"I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'" [President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01]
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09/24/2004 07:16:47 PM · #13 |
Fighting terror is stupid.
If they made peach in the middle east, and stopped bombing innocent people around the world, the "terrorist" wouldn't have a reason to blow them self up.
Make peace Not War on terror
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09/24/2004 07:22:02 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by terje:
If they made peach in the middle east... |
Peach pie? Peach melba? Peach jam? I'd happily send peaches to Al Qaeda if they'd give up their holy war. ;) |
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09/24/2004 07:25:05 PM · #15 |
Pearl Jam!
This thread belongs over at politics 'R' Us.. :-)
Who wanna talk about the new Canon camera?! |
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09/24/2004 08:09:04 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by bdobe:
Originally posted by ScottK:
We are fighting a war not just on Al Queda, but on terrorism. Saddam Hussein supported terrorists. So your implication is irrelevant. |
I'm just taking Mr. Bush at his word:
"We have no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the 11 September attacks." Mr. Bush [ link ]
Of course, Mr. Bush also said:
"I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'" [President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01] |
Bdobe,
Your argument is totally asinine. First off the US is fighting a war on "terror". It's not limited just to Al Queda. So, your attempt to link a State Department map on Al Queda to the war in Iraq only proves your ignorance on the subject! Secondly, what are two quotes on completely different subjects suppose to prove? The president never (ever) use Al Queda as a reason to invade Iraq. Why does that seem to be such a hard concept for the left to grasp?
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09/24/2004 08:28:40 PM · #17 |
Thelsel,
No need to have a heart attack just because you're loosing the argument.
Do you know how simplistic you sound by parroting that we're fight "a war on terror."
Terror : (noun)
1: an overwhelming feeling of fear and anxiety [syn: panic]
2: a person who inspires fear or dread; "he was the terror of the neighborhood" [syn: scourge, threat]
3: a very troublesome child [syn: brat, little terror, holy terror]
Stop repeating the bumper sticker slogans.
Over and over again, the Bush administration alluded to some nebulous connection between Iraq and Al Queda, even though their own internal intelligence reports stated that there weren't any connections. For example, just this Summer Mr. Bush was again trying to make the connection, as reported by NPR:
June 17, 2004
President Bush stood by his previous statements about links between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda, despite the report of the bipartisan commission investigating the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Commission staff members have said they found no evidence that Saddam cooperated with Al Qaeda in the attacks.
//www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1962943
Now, if you don't know the record of this administration, go out and familiarize yourself with it before you pop a vein trying to defend them.
---------------------------------------
Originally posted by thelsel:
Originally posted by bdobe:
Originally posted by ScottK:
We are fighting a war not just on Al Queda, but on terrorism. Saddam Hussein supported terrorists. So your implication is irrelevant. |
I'm just taking Mr. Bush at his word:
"We have no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the 11 September attacks." Mr. Bush [ link ]
Of course, Mr. Bush also said:
"I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'" [President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01] |
Bdobe,
Your argument is totally asinine. First off the US is fighting a war on "terror". It's not limited just to Al Queda. So, your attempt to link a State Department map on Al Queda to the war in Iraq only proves your ignorance on the subject! Secondly, what are two quotes on completely different subjects suppose to prove? The president never (ever) use Al Queda as a reason to invade Iraq. Why does that seem to be such a hard concept for the left to grasp? |
Message edited by author 2004-09-24 21:15:31.
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09/24/2004 09:20:49 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by thelsel:
Bdobe, Your argument is totally asinine. First off the US is fighting a war on "terror". It's not limited just to Al Queda. So, your attempt to link a State Department map on Al Queda to the war in Iraq only proves your ignorance on the subject! |
Your right, 'terror' is not limited to Al Qaeda. After all, the defenition of terror acording to dictionary.com is:
Intense, overpowering fear. See Synonyms at fear.
One that instills intense fear: a rabid dog that became the terror of the neighborhood.
The ability to instill intense fear: the terror of jackboots pounding down the street.
Violence committed or threatened by a group to intimidate or coerce a population, as for military or political purposes.
If the US is fighting the "war on terror" then we should be all over the world, including the Suddan and Haiti.
Also, the synonym for terror is fear. Now if we are having a "war on fear" too, then we have some serious work to do!
Message edited by author 2004-09-24 21:35:33. |
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09/24/2004 09:27:27 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by thelsel:
Secondly, what are two quotes on completely different subjects suppose to prove? The president never (ever) use Al Queda as a reason to invade Iraq. Why does that seem to be such a hard concept for the left to grasp? |
thelsel, I suggest to find a new source for your information (but I will refrain from comments like "asinine" in reference to you). Bush has (yes has) used Al Qaeda as a reason to invade Iraq.
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"It's a man who has got connections with Al Qaida. Imagine a terrorist network with Iraq as an arsenal and as a training ground, so that a Saddam Hussein could use this shadowy group of people to attack his enemy and leave no fingerprint behind. He's a threat."
Source: Remarks by the President in Texas Welcome, White House (11/4/2002).
.
"The regime . . . has aided, trained and harbored terrorists, including operatives of al Qaeda. The danger is clear: using chemical, biological or, one day, nuclear weapons, obtained with the help of Iraq, the terrorists could fulfill their stated ambitions and kill thousands or hundreds of thousands of innocent people in our country, or any other."
Source: President Says Saddam Hussein Must Leave Iraq Within 48 Hours, White House (3/17/2003).
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"The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11, 2001 -- and still goes on. That terrible morning, 19 evil men -- the shock troops of a hateful ideology -- gave America and the civilized world a glimpse of their ambitions. They imagined, in the words of one terrorist, that September the 11th would be the 'beginning of the end of America.' By seeking to turn our cities into killing fields, terrorists and their allies believed that they could destroy this nation's resolve, and force our retreat from the world. They have failed."
Source: President Bush Announces Major Combat Operations in Iraq Have Ended, White House (5/1/2003).
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"The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We've removed an ally of al Qaeda, and cut off a source of terrorist funding. And this much is certain: No terrorist network will gain weapons of mass destruction from the Iraqi regime, because the regime is no more."
Source: President Bush Announces Major Combat Operations in Iraq Have Ended, White House (5/1/2003).
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"He has trained and financed al Qaeda-type organizations before, al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations."
Source: President George Bush Discusses Iraq in National Press Conference, White House (3/6/2003).
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"One of the greatest dangers we face is that weapons of mass destruction might be passed to terrorists who would not hesitate to use those weapons. Saddam Hussein has longstanding, direct and continuing ties to terrorist networks. Senior members of Iraq intelligence and al Qaeda have met at least eight times since the early 1990s. Iraq has sent bomb-making and document forgery experts to work with al Qaeda. Iraq has also provided al Qaeda with chemical and biological weapons training. And an al Qaeda operative was sent to Iraq several times in the late 1990s for help in aquiring poisons and gases. We also know that Iraq is harboring a terrorist network headed by a senior al Qaeda terrorist planner."
Source: President's Radio Address, White House (2/8/2003).
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"Saddam Hussein has longstanding, direct and continuing ties to terrorist networks. Senior members of Iraqi intelligence and al Qaeda have met at least eight times since the early 1990s. Iraq has sent bomb-making and document forgery experts to work with al Qaeda. Iraq has also provided al Qaeda with chemical and biological weapons training. We also know that Iraq is harboring a terrorist network, headed by a senior al Qaeda terrorist planner."
Source: President Bush: "World Can Rise to This Moment", White House (2/6/2003).
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"We know that Iraq and al Qaeda have had high-level contacts that go back a decade. Some al Qaeda leaders who fled Afghanistan went to Iraq. These include one very senior al Qaeda leader who received medical treatment in Baghdad this year, and who has been associated with planning for chemical and biological attacks. We've learned that Iraq has trained al Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases."
Source: President Bush Outlines Iraqi Threat; Remarks by the President on Iraq, White House (10/7/2002).
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"The regime has longstanding and continuing ties to terrorist groups, and there are Al Qaida terrorists inside Iraq."
Source: George W. Bush Delivers Weekly Radio Address, White House (9/28/2002).
Message edited by author 2004-09-24 21:33:03. |
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09/24/2004 10:34:02 PM · #20 |
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09/24/2004 10:41:59 PM · #21 |
| Mad, are you saying these statements are not true? |
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09/24/2004 10:57:52 PM · #22 |
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09/24/2004 11:05:23 PM · #23 |
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09/25/2004 12:45:37 AM · #24 |
What is really disturbing is that these [deleted] seem to like Alaska even. I'd have thought that cold climates like Alaska would repeal these people, but it looks like no where on Earth is safe from them?
Looks like the people of the World will need to take things into their own hands to "correct" this trend? :)
Message edited by mk - edited to remove racial slur. |
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09/25/2004 12:54:03 AM · #25 |
Those Alaskans can be really mean, they may fling a snow ball at ya.
Worthless map. |
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