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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Stopped motion,...proof (or lack of)
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 09/20/2004 10:36:14 AM · #1
I've seen some images in the Stopped Motion challenge which I cannot give a score on because it is impossible to confirm that the subject was actualy "in motion" at the time of the shot. I don't want to give a low or high score to the images I am uncertain of.
 09/20/2004 10:39:10 AM · #2
~ following you from the other thread:

I guess if you are uncertain about the subject in motion at the time of the shot, then it's probably not a very good shot for the challenge.
 09/20/2004 10:40:45 AM · #3
Originally posted by xion:
~ following you from the other thread:

I guess if you are uncertain about the subject in motion at the time of the shot, then it's probably not a very good shot for the challenge.


well that too...but in fact, one of them is...this is what perplexes me.
 09/20/2004 10:45:25 AM · #4
Um... is it a good picture? Vote accordingly! I really wouldn't let it melt my brain that much... :)
 09/20/2004 10:46:49 AM · #5
Originally posted by xion:
~ following you from the other thread:

I guess if you are uncertain about the subject in motion at the time of the shot, then it's probably not a very good shot for the challenge.


Or else it's too good and makes you think it isnt moving. There are normally tell tale signs that something is in the process of moving even when it doesnt look like it is. Something in the air (hope that's generic enough) would suggest movement as they arent normally found to be in the air without moving to be in that space. Having something that isnt moving but gives the illusion it is moving may not be following what the challenge was hoping people would learn but it still portrays (assumingly so) what the challenge states. Most times it's not about how someone achieved a shot but what the final image looks like.

If you feel that you cannot fairly vote on an image for whatever reason then you dont have to vote on it (as long as you make at least 20% on the challenge). That said, there is no right or wrong vote, it's based purely on what you feel about the image for whatever reasons.
 09/20/2004 10:47:24 AM · #6
I'd give them the benefit of the doubt if at all possible ... after all, movement is relative :)
 09/20/2004 10:58:14 AM · #7
Here is the idea I was going to implement for the Stopped Motion challenge. It wouldn't have been true 'stopped motion' but if I could have made it look right and properly hidden the wire I think it would have made people laugh their ass off.



I still plan on taking this shot someday.
 09/20/2004 11:00:15 AM · #8
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
Here is the idea I was going to implement for the Stopped Motion challenge. It wouldn't have been true 'stopped motion' but if I could have made it look right and properly hidden the wire I think it would have made people laugh their ass off.



I still plan on taking this shot someday.


LOL - that would be a cool photo.. look forward to seeing the photo
 09/20/2004 11:02:17 AM · #9
This reminds me of a photo taken during the action shot challenge...



Personally, if the photographer went to that much trouble to simulate stopped motion that the viewer would believe that it is legit, then I would give full credit. Some photos stop the motion with the shutter, others stop it and then take the picture. But in the end, the motion is stopped anyway.
 09/20/2004 11:20:26 AM · #10
well I'm not talking about "trick photography here" (altough I think 1 or 2 are just that in the challenge) but actual "non-moving" objects just hoping to look like stopped...

but hey, thanx for the comments...if I can't figure it out for myself...I just won't vote on it.
 09/20/2004 11:29:49 AM · #11
What does it matter? Isn't the end result what matters?
 09/20/2004 11:35:33 AM · #12
i'll verify that the shot in question was actually in very high speed motion at the time of the shot.

i think anyway, it's the one in question - based on 'the' comment i received so far ;}

Message edited by author 2004-09-20 11:36:03.
 09/20/2004 11:37:03 AM · #13
i'd like to think that there are themes for a reason.

I always believed that this community (Dpchallenge) was about the photographers rather then the photographic results. Although scores are given to the 'end result', its what the photographer does to follow the base rules and themes, that makes the difference.

If the theme is 'stop motion' and the submission is a fake, what's the point?

For most of the shots that win ribbons, i always hope for a tutorial on how the winners did their shots. How well they prepared, follow there thoughts on the artistic process. That's how you learn.

Besides... there are no physical prices... i can't believe ego goes so high as to cheat that much into a theme... But then again, that's what i believe.

Message edited by author 2004-09-20 11:37:23.
 09/20/2004 11:50:04 AM · #14
I think, Bob, at least for me the differnce is the learning part, learning to 'stop motion' on your camera so when a cheetah runs past you can stop him is much different than suspending something via glue tape or whatever and then shooting. Besides its hard to glue or tape a live cheetah. The learning is what is important, what settings do you need shutter speed, ap ect.
 09/20/2004 11:54:56 AM · #15
I see this challenge as a photography exercise. That's how I approached it . I believe that it's a nice skill to have, to point your camera at a moving object and predict the position/composition and press that button. Of course I could have created some sort of studio set up with things hanging from the ceiling, and since this is an advanced challenge, I could have cloned out the distracting strings :) (I am not the best illusionist).

Just trying to say what I think is the purpose of this challenge.
09/20/2004 12:01:07 PM · #16
My submission is probably a good candidate for this conversation. The subject of the photo was actually moving very quickly, but the viewer (not having been with me at the time of the shot) may not be able to tell that the subject was moving (swiftly anyway).

A couple comments and my score (5.6 ish) have pretty much verified that. Having not thought of that before submitting, the "error" is mine and I deserve the score I get ... even though there was quite a lot of motion.

crap ... so much for an overall website average of a 6 :)
 09/20/2004 12:40:51 PM · #17
Originally posted by Trinch:
This reminds me of a photo taken during the action shot challenge...



Personally, if the photographer went to that much trouble to simulate stopped motion that the viewer would believe that it is legit, then I would give full credit. Some photos stop the motion with the shutter, others stop it and then take the picture. But in the end, the motion is stopped anyway.


but unless we interpret that since the earth rotates and the universe is in motion, doing this would not be in the spirit of the challenge, would it? My photoshop skills are good enough that I'm certain I could fool most of the people who look at a photo, but why?

Bill

09/20/2004 12:49:27 PM · #18
what about glueing and suspending and dead cheetah??? would that not be the ultimate "stopped motion" !

just kidding, I also think that as part of a challenge we should take the description at face value and not play with it, the idea is to challenge us to do stuff we'd might not do...not to see how much we can't stretch the elastic.
 09/20/2004 12:52:20 PM · #19
Originally posted by Gil P:
I've seen some images in the Stopped Motion challenge which I cannot give a score on because it is impossible to confirm that the subject was actualy "in motion" at the time of the shot. I don't want to give a low or high score to the images I am uncertain of.


The comment you've left on mine is that there isn't enough motion. Considering my subject is stopped in mid air I'm not clear on how much motion you're looking for. The challenge description reads: "Catch your subject mid-action -- that means no motion trails! Let's see how well your timing meets your creativity." No where does it say high speed action. Maybe you're being too critical?
 09/20/2004 01:06:40 PM · #20
I also received a comment questioning my pic. It took about 50 clicks to get it right. No glue, tape, or glass was used to stop the motion, just patience and a little luck. I have lots of outakes to prove it.
 09/20/2004 07:53:29 PM · #21
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
What does it matter? Isn't the end result what matters?


No!

As Ellamay said its about learning! I use this site and the challenges to put me into a photographic situation that I may otherwise not be in. So even if all I get is a so so capture I have learnt about my camera and that particular style of photography and the comment will help me to see things I would not have seen myself.

While searching for some thing for stopped motion a few ideas were thrown around, but I rejected most because even though it would have been stopped motion it would not have been evident by a photo. Isn't that also part of the challenge, I think it is.
 09/20/2004 08:00:04 PM · #22
Originally posted by debitipton:
Originally posted by Gil P:
I've seen some images in the Stopped Motion challenge which I cannot give a score on because it is impossible to confirm that the subject was actualy "in motion" at the time of the shot. I don't want to give a low or high score to the images I am uncertain of.


The comment you've left on mine is that there isn't enough motion. Considering my subject is stopped in mid air I'm not clear on how much motion you're looking for. The challenge description reads: "Catch your subject mid-action -- that means no motion trails! Let's see how well your timing meets your creativity." No where does it say high speed action. Maybe you're being too critical?


since I can't say which is yours I'll have to wait to the end of the challenge to explain my comment... most likely it has to do with slow moving objects not being, in my interpretation of stopped action, moving fast enough to be called that. a snail moves....but a pic of a snail moving would not be stopped action.
 09/21/2004 02:04:10 PM · #23
Originally posted by RedOak:
i'd like to think that there are themes for a reason.

I always believed that this community (Dpchallenge) was about the photographers rather then the photographic results. Although scores are given to the 'end result', its what the photographer does to follow the base rules and themes, that makes the difference.

If the theme is 'stop motion' and the submission is a fake, what's the point?

For most of the shots that win ribbons, i always hope for a tutorial on how the winners did their shots. How well they prepared, follow there thoughts on the artistic process. That's how you learn.

Besides... there are no physical prices... i can't believe ego goes so high as to cheat that much into a theme... But then again, that's what i believe.


Right on RedOak. I totally agree with you on this!!!
 09/21/2004 03:00:37 PM · #24
Some shots are very hard to analyse. A lot also depends on your level of expertise. If a shot appears questionable, ask how you would rectreate the shot. Often, when a telephoto lens is used it distorts the perpective much like when you watch a baseball game with the camera right behind the batter and showing the pitcher right in your face.

I saw one image with a dart. This shot can be done several ways. One is to throw the dart slowly and a flash or strobe will stop it. The other way is to throw the dart up from the bottom. Another is to suspend it from the background, but when you suspect this, examine the depth from the object to the end of the board, if the distance is too great, it is not quite feasable. In advance editing you can also supend the dart with a string and then clone it out...So, what is the easiest way to execute this shot and remain legal? I would throw it up from the bottom, because the action is being stopped, althought the illusion is that it is travelling towards the board.

There are many clever ways to accomplish an end and I am affraid that many of us are not qualified to validate what evades our senses.

My advise is to extend the courtesy of the doubt and vote the image on its merit. There are many others in this site who will validate or disprove your assessment and at the end it is all revealed.
 09/21/2004 04:03:45 PM · #25
Mine's frekin stopped motion and I've gotten 4 comments (all that I have so far) about how it looks staged or that they can't find any way to verify that it isn't. It's candid and stopped and my stupid score is at 4.1x and it's driving me nuts because I spent a lot of time trying to find one that would work and then editing it!

For sheer quality of the photo there is no reason for it to be below a 5, but I can understand if people are marking it down for not meeting the challenge, however, not all the way down to a 4. That's just depressing. My friend checks my challenge entries for me and there was a miscommunication where he didn't read the challenge title or else I think he would have told me that it wouldn't work... (EDIT: which I can see why people question it but not why they can't give me the benefit of the doubt.)

Message edited by author 2004-09-21 16:04:28.
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