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09/20/2004 05:07:46 AM · #1
Is it just me or does the top 4 Mirror photos resemble something more akin to a photoshop site?

I am all for editing ion every shape or form. But I thought we were supposed to hold on to photographic integrity and keep some feeling of the real world.

I am unsure about including the 2nd place feather - a nice image but it does look like pink clouds have been created as if from a psychedelic trip.

I am obviously in the majority by some huge distance here, but this highlights my taste versus the taste of the average DPC voter which is something I am currently questioning.

09/20/2004 05:22:28 AM · #2
You're such a wind-up merchant, Jon. :)))

I guess what you're asking is, is it possible to go against "photographic integrity" with just a camera?
09/20/2004 05:52:35 AM · #3
Originally posted by PaulMdx:

You're such a wind-up merchant, Jon. :)))

I guess what you're asking is, is it possible to go against "photographic integrity" with just a camera?


As my dear mother says "Jon, you like to provoke a reaction" :D

Being serious, what I mean is more about general tastes rather than sticking to the rules - I am simply using photoshop and integrity as an example of an effect I really do not like (bits in color and bits in black and white do not shout photography to me nor do they excite me aesthetic terms)

I had a conversation a few weeks back with a couple of their members how the top 10 ranked images seem to have changed over the course of my first year here.

When I joined there was a lot of stock type shots, very well taken at that and that is one of the reasons I wanted to join and participate - I liked the photographs and most of the time the best 10 would finish in the top 10 (obviously in my opinion)

But as the site has grown, I see the style of popularity has changed. During the middle part of my membership there was a huge backlash against stock type photos winning all the time.

That seemed to result in average landscapes (for example) suddenly ranking better than they did before.

And now I see a lot of selective desaturation, and a lot of soft neat image photographs getting ranked very high.

This is fine, all I am merely questioning is my interest in a site that favors a style of photography that I do not. And discussing the evolution of this site as it attracts more members.

Message edited by author 2004-09-20 05:52:49.
09/20/2004 06:07:54 AM · #4
Being quite a new member I get the feeling that a contest cannot be won by just having a great photo, on one hand I find this a good lesson in my quest to become a proficent photographer as it makes me work for the 'client' rather than the art (happy clients = chance of income), but on the other hand I find it a bit sad that the purity of a photo is lost to the 'plastic factory' in order to appeal to the masses.

My stuggle is finding the balance between producing what I want and producing what others want, c'est la vie.

I'd like to see much more variation in the amount of editing permitted, why does it seem to be only 'advanced' for members and 'basic' for open, can't we mix it up a bit and throw in some other restrictions like 'cropping/rotate only' etc

Darren

09/20/2004 06:51:16 AM · #5
To me it's not how much editing is allowed, rather how it is used.

09/20/2004 07:46:07 AM · #6
This is like asking for no more drugs at the olympics. In 2004 Phography and Digital imagery are closely linked...so unless the rules are "straight out of camera"... there will always be issues.

I consider that modifying an image is part of the creative process.
09/20/2004 08:00:48 AM · #7
Originally posted by Gil P:

I consider that modifying an image is part of the creative process.


So do I, I am not against editing.
09/20/2004 08:23:55 AM · #8
I hear what you're saying Jon, but seeing as 9 out of your last 10 images have scored a 6 or higher, I wouldn't say you're really being affected at all by the shift in public opinion.

And public opinion is bound to shift again ... perhaps to your agreement, perhaps not. It would be a shame to lose you :)
09/20/2004 08:24:01 AM · #9
Probably my bigest grip is that alot of these photos don't have any information given by the photographer when it has been entered.

I know when a challenge has ended I go looking for the photos that had an impact on me or had something in it that I wanted to know how it was done. More and more I just get to see a n/a written.

It would be great to see the steps taken when editing so us mere mortals can learn from it.
09/20/2004 08:50:39 AM · #10
I look at it this way... I am a member of a website devoted PURELY to photoshop manipulation, and one in which I rarely, if ever take and use my own photographs. I enjoy it because I am better than your average photoshopper, and the competition is intense, just as it is here.

BUT

I come here because I want to learn to take photographs like the one's I see on here, and use in my work for the other site. I want to learn. When I started at //www.photoshopcontest.com, I knew little to nothing about PS. Now I can do damn near anything. I hope to have the same thing happen here as well...

and as far as selective desaturation goes, it's just tacky. I say you want an image to stand out, photograph it that way or leave it alone.

-my 2 cents

Message edited by author 2004-09-20 08:51:36.
09/20/2004 08:56:04 AM · #11
Corrected Link
09/20/2004 10:08:00 AM · #12
Originally posted by KaBooM:

I look at it this way... I am a member of a website devoted PURELY to photoshop manipulation, and one in which I rarely, if ever take and use my own photographs. I enjoy it because I am better than your average photoshopper, and the competition is intense, just as it is here.

BUT

I come here because I want to learn to take photographs like the one's I see on here, and use in my work for the other site. I want to learn. When I started at //www.photoshopcontest.com, I knew little to nothing about PS. Now I can do damn near anything. I hope to have the same thing happen here as well...

and as far as selective desaturation goes, it's just tacky. I say you want an image to stand out, photograph it that way or leave it alone.

-my 2 cents


well I think you should ponder your toughts before make statments:

#1 "I am better than your average photoshopper" you know this how? do you have an Adobe Talent meter??

#2 "as far as selective desaturation goes, it's just tacky" that's your call...but it's not because you do not like something that it's tacky.

After looking at your entries...I suggest you work harder on bettering your skills.

Message edited by author 2004-09-20 10:08:53.
09/20/2004 01:10:29 PM · #13
Well I agree it can be pretty tacky - but that is my point. I think this site attracts more and more beginners whom think certain filters and effects are "Way Cool". Not that there is anything wrong with that by nay means.

I don't think it's getting high and mighty by saying that the majority of people grow out of such effects after a period of usage.

09/20/2004 01:12:30 PM · #14
Originally posted by Gil P:


well I think you should ponder your toughts before make statments:

#1 "I am better than your average photoshopper" you know this how? do you have an Adobe Talent meter??

#2 "as far as selective desaturation goes, it's just tacky" that's your call...but it's not because you do not like something that it's tacky.

After looking at your entries...I suggest you work harder on bettering your skills.


GilP...plaaaayyy nice...
09/20/2004 01:18:18 PM · #15
The way I look at it this is a digital photo contest, digital photo has to be put in the computer and at leas you have to change the size of your shot. So stright out of the camera is not an real option. So where to stop, most poeople are ok with cropping. How about a little curve, just to make your shot from the cheap camera like those how have new expensive ones (because it shouldn't just be about the money you got). So where to stop, that is the question nobody can agree to. But like the things are here in DPC is perfect for my taste. Two sets of rules every week so you can choose wich one you like.

IF you are looking for a compitition with NO editing, why go digital. You can just find yourself some compitition with ordinary film photos "straight from the camera"

just my 2 cents :)
09/20/2004 01:39:47 PM · #16
Originally posted by oskar:

The way I look at it this is a digital photo contest, digital photo has to be put in the computer and at leas you have to change the size of your shot. So stright out of the camera is not an real option. So where to stop, most poeople are ok with cropping. How about a little curve, just to make your shot from the cheap camera like those how have new expensive ones (because it shouldn't just be about the money you got). So where to stop, that is the question nobody can agree to. But like the things are here in DPC is perfect for my taste. Two sets of rules every week so you can choose wich one you like.

IF you are looking for a compitition with NO editing, why go digital. You can just find yourself some compitition with ordinary film photos "straight from the camera"

just my 2 cents :)


Film photos are never straight from the camera. Slides are another story.
09/20/2004 07:37:57 PM · #17
Originally posted by jonpink:



I am unsure about including the 2nd place feather


don't worry it's already included, congrats to the winners!

09/20/2004 08:05:03 PM · #18
I'm not a beginer, and I enjoy using selective desat. And I've used it in a few photos I've submitted and am happy with the results. And guess what. Before I started to do it in photoshop, I used to give lessons and teach at a small art school on hand tinting photographs using Marshals oil based paints. Painting photos from prints made in a BW darkroom. And I'm sorry you think its so tacky, but I've made a decent living doing it over the last several years, and quite a few people actually like the effect, me included. And I hope to see more creative uses of it in competitions to come.
09/20/2004 08:06:39 PM · #19
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

Originally posted by Gil P:


well I think you should ponder your toughts before make statments:

#1 "I am better than your average photoshopper" you know this how? do you have an Adobe Talent meter??

#2 "as far as selective desaturation goes, it's just tacky" that's your call...but it's not because you do not like something that it's tacky.

After looking at your entries...I suggest you work harder on bettering your skills.


GilP...plaaaayyy nice...


I did not mean this as an attack/insult and I apologize if it sounds this way....what I did mean is that, a person should work on his/her talents and not worry about what other people like and do.
09/20/2004 08:11:00 PM · #20
I think you're right Jon - the weight given to the imprssion of photos has changed over the past year or so (oh, and please ignore fools like Gil). What it has changed, to, unfortunately, I don't know. But it says somehing when Kiwiness's shot scores 7.4 and JJ's scores only 6.8.

Did you really think 'skylight' was so blatant? I personally think it's the only sensible use of selective de-sat I've seen on the site, and shows a greater underatnding of the way tastes have changed here than I have myself ... bloody annoying, actually, as I'd love to be able to nail things like that.

But I think you have to accept that some people seem to have a hot-line to the voter's preferences, and some of us don't. That's just the way it is - the rest of us can comfort ourselves by thinking that those hot-liners are actually taking very boring photographs. Whatever it takes to retain one's confidence :-)

It's boring, of course, until one develops that sudden style or method that puts one in that class oneself :-)

E
09/20/2004 08:28:21 PM · #21
Originally posted by e301:

I think you're right Jon - the weight given to the imprssion of photos has changed over the past year or so (oh, and please ignore fools like Gil). What it has changed, to, unfortunately, I don't know. But it says somehing when Kiwiness's shot scores 7.4 and JJ's scores only 6.8.

Did you really think 'skylight' was so blatant? I personally think it's the only sensible use of selective de-sat I've seen on the site, and shows a greater underatnding of the way tastes have changed here than I have myself ... bloody annoying, actually, as I'd love to be able to nail things like that.

But I think you have to accept that some people seem to have a hot-line to the voter's preferences, and some of us don't. That's just the way it is - the rest of us can comfort ourselves by thinking that those hot-liners are actually taking very boring photographs. Whatever it takes to retain one's confidence :-)

It's boring, of course, until one develops that sudden style or method that puts one in that class oneself :-)

E


Altough I'd like some clarifications on "oh, and please ignore fools like Gil" I have to agree with you on the topic of "hot-line", this is much more about understanding the mass apeal than it is about doing good imagery... when there's a poor pic of a cute child...it may rate higher than a great pic of something less broadly popular.
09/21/2004 04:19:47 PM · #22
Originally posted by Gil P:

Originally posted by KaBooM:

I look at it this way... I am a member of a website devoted PURELY to photoshop manipulation, and one in which I rarely, if ever take and use my own photographs. I enjoy it because I am better than your average photoshopper, and the competition is intense, just as it is here.

BUT

I come here because I want to learn to take photographs like the one's I see on here, and use in my work for the other site. I want to learn. When I started at //www.photoshopcontest.com, I knew little to nothing about PS. Now I can do damn near anything. I hope to have the same thing happen here as well...

and as far as selective desaturation goes, it's just tacky. I say you want an image to stand out, photograph it that way or leave it alone.

-my 2 cents


well I think you should ponder your toughts before make statments:

#1 "I am better than your average photoshopper" you know this how? do you have an Adobe Talent meter??

#2 "as far as selective desaturation goes, it's just tacky" that's your call...but it's not because you do not like something that it's tacky.

After looking at your entries...I suggest you work harder on bettering your skills.


I was not criticizing ANYTHING about you or anyone else, and gave my 2 cents on the desaturation thing. and you pay SUCH great attention, you had to point out that my photo's suck AFTER I said I was here to learn, and that I wanted to LEARN to take photographs like the one's I saw here. And for the record, anyday you want to compare portfolio's of shopped work, let me know. Until then, I think YOU need to concentrate on NOT being such a pretentious ass.
09/21/2004 04:22:17 PM · #23
Originally posted by ericlimon:

I'm not a beginer, and I enjoy using selective desat. And I've used it in a few photos I've submitted and am happy with the results. And guess what. Before I started to do it in photoshop, I used to give lessons and teach at a small art school on hand tinting photographs using Marshals oil based paints. Painting photos from prints made in a BW darkroom. And I'm sorry you think its so tacky, but I've made a decent living doing it over the last several years, and quite a few people actually like the effect, me included. And I hope to see more creative uses of it in competitions to come.


Thanks for not being a prick about responding to my comment. I think doing it "manually" is an artform. Maybe I should say that what people have chosen to desaturate in some of the pics on here IMO I find a bit tacky. I do like some of them IF they are done well. For example, the 3rd place pic in the mirror contest was excellent!
09/21/2004 04:45:25 PM · #24
Originally posted by jonpink:

Is it just me or does the top 4 Mirror photos resemble something more akin to a photoshop site?

I am all for editing ion every shape or form. But I thought we were supposed to hold on to photographic integrity and keep some feeling of the real world.

I am unsure about including the 2nd place feather - a nice image but it does look like pink clouds have been created as if from a psychedelic trip.

I am obviously in the majority by some huge distance here, but this highlights my taste versus the taste of the average DPC voter which is something I am currently questioning.


As the author of the psychedelic pink clouds, remember, I live in BC now, he, he, he ...

The pink clouds were an experiment that I didn't think was going to go anywhere, but here it is on front page. I was experimenting with splitting images to RGB channels, then adjusting histograms in the individual channels, then reglueing them back together. In this case I used only the red and blue channels when reglueing. My daughter and I were doing this together, and she liked the pink clouds (IT'S HER FAULT :)))) We worked levels to get the feather to look warmer (it was rather grey).

AND - I NEVER PHOTOSHOP! I'm a PSP user :) I also have Corel software, but I usually stick to PSP.

And something else, even though I live in BC, pink RGB channel clouds are about as close as I will probably ever come to a psychedelic trip :)

--------

Seriously. It seems to me that just because a picture does not look "photoshopped" doesn't mean that it hasn't been extensively manipulated in PS. The pink clouds picture is not that far from the original (outside of the stupid colours).

Ursula

09/21/2004 04:46:36 PM · #25
Hey, jonpink, I would think that with a username like yours you would have fallen head over heels in love with the pink clouds feather :)
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