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09/09/2004 02:22:54 PM · #1 |
Since no WMD's were found in Iraq, the Bush administration has turned to "liberation" as the main reason for invading and destabilizing Iraq.
If that were the case, and Bush is into helping less fortunate people, why isn̢۪t the Bush administration taking action in the Sudan right now?
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Secretary of State Colin Powell said Thursday that "genocide has been committed" in the Sudanese region of Darfur.
Since February 2003, 15,000 to 30,000 civilians have died and more continue to die right now. Over 1.2 million Sudanese have been displaced from their homes.
Finally though, Powell did say "genocide" so maybe now something will get done.
Although all this time, neither the Bush administration or the U.N. would call the situation genocide. A step which would authorize other nations to intervene under international law.
Maybe cause the Sudanese don̢۪t have something to offer us in exchange for our help.. like oil?
My attempt here is to shine light on what does not get covered on TV. This is the reality of what̢۪s going on now. I am sickened when I hear Bush speak of the good things he has done and the millions he liberated in Iraq while poor tribes in Africa have their men murdered in front of the women and children, while those women and children are raped.
People in Iraq were not living like this.
RonB will probably follow this post with some sort of word mince and twist around of the situation or of what I posted as he always does to defend the Bush administration. I hope you can see my message with my original post and are not 'outfoxed' by what others may say. |
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09/09/2004 02:23:21 PM · #2 |
When the election is over will you stop?
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09/09/2004 02:25:14 PM · #3 |
This is a photography site, can't you discuss all your political opinions somewhere more suitable?
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09/09/2004 02:27:29 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by Konador:
This is a photography site, can't you discuss all your political opinions somewhere more suitable? |
Yes, please! |
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09/09/2004 02:27:59 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
Since no WMD's were found in Iraq, the Bush administration has turned to "liberation" as the main reason for invading and destabilizing Iraq.
If that were the case, and Bush is into helping less fortunate people, why isn̢۪t the Bush administration taking action in the Sudan right now?
more
more2
Secretary of State Colin Powell said Thursday that "genocide has been committed" in the Sudanese region of Darfur.
Since February 2003, 15,000 to 30,000 civilians have died and more continue to die right now. Over 1.2 million Sudanese have been displaced from their homes.
Finally though, Powell did say "genocide" so maybe now something will get done.
Although all this time, neither the Bush administration or the U.N. would call the situation genocide. A step which would authorize other nations to intervene under international law.
Maybe cause the Sudanese don̢۪t have something to offer us in exchange for our help.. like oil?
My attempt here is to shine light on what does not get covered on TV. This is the reality of what̢۪s going on now. I am sickened when I hear Bush speak of the good things he has done and the millions he liberated in Iraq while poor tribes in Africa have their men murdered in front of the women and children, while those women and children are raped.
People in Iraq were not living like this.
RonB will probably follow this post with some sort of word mince and twist around of the situation or of what I posted as he always does to defend the Bush administration. I hope you can see my message with my original post and are not 'outfoxed' by what others may say. |
Were the people of Sudan firing at our aircraft enforcing a UN sanctioned no fly zone?
Do you think we should liberate Sudan?
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09/09/2004 03:09:17 PM · #6 |
MadMordegon:
Since you never answered my question before I am hoping you will answer it now.
What Country are you from? Or What country do you live in now?
dont be a chicken and answer.
Me I am from the USA, born and raised in Houston, Texas
James
Message edited by author 2004-09-09 15:10:15. |
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09/09/2004 04:07:58 PM · #7 |
| Is there a feature where I can automatically put all threads started by MadMordegon on ignore... |
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09/09/2004 04:25:22 PM · #8 |
The man has a strong opinion on subjects he feels strongly about in a thread whiuch can be set to ignore -so where's the problem here?
I don't see a man who's malicious and hurting anyone here so why come down on him so hard? If no one responds - so be it, but it doesn't seem fair to berate him in his own thread as if he's insulted your mothers.
Edit: at least his heart's in the right place - the carnage in the Sudan is an horrendous plight and the world is a very confusing place at times - as I've found when trying to explain this kind of thing to my kids...
Message edited by author 2004-09-09 16:47:51. |
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09/09/2004 04:59:24 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Imagineer:
The man has a strong opinion on subjects he feels strongly about in a thread whiuch can be set to ignore -so where's the problem here?
I don't see a man who's malicious and hurting anyone here so why come down on him so hard? If no one responds - so be it, but it doesn't seem fair to berate him in his own thread as if he's insulted your mothers.
Edit: at least his heart's in the right place - the carnage in the Sudan is an horrendous plight and the world is a very confusing place at times - as I've found when trying to explain this kind of thing to my kids... |
Quite right. I don't see anything wrong in trying to make the world a better place. I personally try not to get involved in political debates, but I believe everyone should at least be aware of the injustices in this world... too much is ignored in our 'me first' Western culture. Yet another case of the DPC thought police jumping in unwarranted. |
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09/09/2004 05:48:43 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Imagineer:
The man has a strong opinion on subjects he feels strongly about in a thread whiuch can be set to ignore -so where's the problem here?
I don't see a man who's malicious and hurting anyone here so why come down on him so hard? If no one responds - so be it, but it doesn't seem fair to berate him in his own thread as if he's insulted your mothers.
Edit: at least his heart's in the right place - the carnage in the Sudan is an horrendous plight and the world is a very confusing place at times - as I've found when trying to explain this kind of thing to my kids... |
The problem is that most people do not come here for constant political commentary, they come...suprisingly...for photography and discussions about photography. If all MM wants to do is discuss politics, there are far more appropriate places. |
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09/09/2004 06:01:47 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by mk:
The problem is that most people do not come here for constant political commentary, they come...suprisingly...for photography and discussions about photography. If all MM wants to do is discuss politics, there are far more appropriate places. |
This is the RANT section right? If you want photography, go find a section that relates to it... BTW, unless you can't read, it's pretty easy to avoid political threads, and if you can't read, they shouldn't bother you. As much as I dislike MM's stupid banter and pathetic brain washed trash talked, there is nothing wrong with his post here... |
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09/09/2004 06:16:48 PM · #12 |
| I'm at a loss as to why some people think it is acceptable to talk about other DPC members with such a lack of respect. The man is entitled to his opinions, and I personally believe that we should all be aware of the issues he has raised... photography website or not, we are all human beings on planet earth. |
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09/09/2004 06:30:27 PM · #13 |
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09/09/2004 06:44:49 PM · #14 |
I totally understand why everyone hates these posts. I think this leftist dribble is quite intrusive.
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09/09/2004 06:48:13 PM · #15 |
no doubt he brings up important topics, thats not the problem, the problem is he is SO intent on voicing that its the Bush adminstrations fault for everything.
I think he lives in Florida, which would explain his extream hatred for Bush. But he does not understand it is NOT always the Bush administrations fault, thats all Im trying to get across.
Even the link he posted has outher countries sorta willing to send troops if needed, the US has NOT said NO, am Im sure the US will send help over there as we are the major world crisis problem solvers. I dont see any other country already involved in trying to stop the situation.
James
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09/09/2004 07:16:59 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by jab119:
MadMordegon:
Since you never answered my question before I am hoping you will answer it now.
What Country are you from? Or What country do you live in now?
dont be a chicken and answer.
Me I am from the USA, born and raised in Houston, Texas
James |
I presume from a previous post where he expressed a longing to leave this country and live in europe or the carribean (my paraphrasing), that he resides in the US. |
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09/09/2004 07:25:29 PM · #17 |
And yet further proof that the Bush administration has completely bungled the Iraq war, another country has requested that the administration "formally" remove its name from the coalition of the un-willing list:
Costa Rica demands it be removed from a U.S. list of countries supporting Iraq. [ link ]
After looking at the current list of the coalition of the un-willing, it's clear why US troops continue to bear the brunt of the burden in Iraq (i.e., 1,005 US fatalities).
.......................................
P.S. I'll be attending a candle light vigil for our troops tonight... after paying my respects for the fallen, I hope to have a chance to take some pics.
P.S.S. If you want to participate, please click on the link above. Note that you'll have to agree to the following:
Our vigils will be simple and dignified. We'll gather at 8:00 P.M., and stand in a circle, silently, for 45 minutes or so, holding candles -- safely away from anything that could catch fire.
Together, we'll acknowledge the sacrifice made by the 1,000 brave American men and women who have given their lives in Iraq. It is a time to silently honor our fallen soldiers, and to reflect on the situation in Iraq where 114,000 American troops are now serving, and the events and decisions that led to them being stationed there.
This is not a rally. Although we may be moved emotionally by our shared reflection and acknowledgement, this is not the place for speeches or announcements.
These ground rules are important. We ask that you only attend the event if you agree to abide by them.
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09/09/2004 07:37:21 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
Since no WMD's were found in Iraq, the Bush administration has turned to "liberation" as the main reason for invading and destabilizing Iraq.
If that were the case, and Bush is into helping less fortunate people, why isn̢۪t the Bush administration taking action in the Sudan right now?
more
more2
Secretary of State Colin Powell said Thursday that "genocide has been committed" in the Sudanese region of Darfur.
Since February 2003, 15,000 to 30,000 civilians have died and more continue to die right now. Over 1.2 million Sudanese have been displaced from their homes.
Finally though, Powell did say "genocide" so maybe now something will get done.
Although all this time, neither the Bush administration or the U.N. would call the situation genocide. A step which would authorize other nations to intervene under international law.
Maybe cause the Sudanese don̢۪t have something to offer us in exchange for our help.. like oil?
My attempt here is to shine light on what does not get covered on TV. This is the reality of what̢۪s going on now. I am sickened when I hear Bush speak of the good things he has done and the millions he liberated in Iraq while poor tribes in Africa have their men murdered in front of the women and children, while those women and children are raped.
People in Iraq were not living like this.
RonB will probably follow this post with some sort of word mince and twist around of the situation or of what I posted as he always does to defend the Bush administration. I hope you can see my message with my original post and are not 'outfoxed' by what others may say. |
I agree with you that the situation there is horrendous and that action should be taken. But your arguement/compaint makes no sense. Powell made the declaration, opening the door for action. That completely refutes your accusation that the reason the Bush administration hasn't done anything is because they don't have oil. In a situation that's been going on for a little over a year, the US is now responding. Iraq was a situation that festered for at least a dozen years (if you just count back to the first gulf war), and Bush got blasted for going in too fast and recklessly.
Honestly, I am really tempted to question your heart on this issue (since its been suggested that your heart's in the right place), because your intent is obviously less to spread the word about this attrocity and more to smear Bush. Based on my meager understanding of the issue (I skimmed a couple of the links, and will try to read them in depth later), its Islamo-facists that are the cause of this, not the Bush administration. Why don't you take them to task??? Instead you just try to pin another crisis on the back of George Bush. If you just once in a while enlightened us about something that you didn't blame on Bush, I might buy that your intent is to inform everyone about the evils of the world. But time and again you prove otherwise. You have one agenda: destroy Bush. |
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09/09/2004 07:40:37 PM · #19 |
......yes a sad picture.
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09/09/2004 07:45:58 PM · #20 |
And just to follow up on the real cause of all these miseries, Islamo-facism: Never a word about that in your post. Never a mention of the Islamic monsters who joyfully tortured and murdered hundreds of school children and their families last week. No mentions of the aniversary of 9/11 coming up when Islamic terrorists killed thousands in one day. No mentions of the bus bombings in Isreal by Islamic Palestinian terrorists last week. Lets post some of those numbers instead of hammering on the number of soldiers who gave their lives in Iraq, just to remind everyone of what it is we're fighting for.
Your always so eager to find some way to spin everything and blame it on Bush, you ignore the true faces of evil around the world. What a hypocrit you are. |
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09/09/2004 08:00:50 PM · #21 |
The member, like all of us has a right to his opinions. However, he preaches to the choir and there is another side to the story. I have the same right to say that he speaks for the looney left and here are my reasons.
The object of the Iraq war was not to liberate. Liberation is only an after effect. You point out our injustice in Iraq...Are you saying they were better off with Sadam in power?
The true reason for the war was to create a vacuum. What does a vacuum do? It funnels the terroist to Iraq, it attracts them like magnet. It pulls on their resources. Iran sends them, Syria sends them. You know the same terroist that did 9/11 and lately the attack on the Russian children. There is a serious infestation and if you really say you care, then you want the scum that attacks the innocent to be confronted.
Whether you like it or not the current administration has cut in sharply into the resources of these sub-humans criminals and their activities have been hampered some what. But this is a war and no country is safe.
I know, the Liberal is quick to identify with pain and human suffering because it makes them feel better. Feelings do not solve many problems. Yes, war scares Liberals because they simply believe that wars are not needed to solve global problems. This is because the leftish professors concentrated more on their socialistic agenda and their hatred for the this country, instead of teaching history.
You take America for granted not realizing that all force must be met with a greater force to defeat it, otherwise you have conquest. We liberate, but show me what country in the last hundred years,we have subjugated and then made it ours?
I know your frustration but the problem is much above your comprehension because you are blindly attacking and making rediculous accusations from the looney left's talking points.
You should be equally outraged at the islamic militants did to those children and you should be happy that the current administration is bringing the war to them.
Genocide is another phenomena that baffles the men of good of will...it is very sad and further proof that not all men are honorable. But why would you beat on the administration for another problem which we did not create. And yes, we are ready to die to stop genocide. But when the world is on fire....which fire do you put out first.
Message edited by author 2004-09-09 20:06:20. |
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09/10/2004 01:11:35 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
Since no WMD's were found in Iraq, the Bush administration has turned to "liberation" as the main reason for invading and destabilizing Iraq.
If that were the case, and Bush is into helping less fortunate people, why isn̢۪t the Bush administration taking action in the Sudan right now?
more
more2
Secretary of State Colin Powell said Thursday that "genocide has been committed" in the Sudanese region of Darfur.
Since February 2003, 15,000 to 30,000 civilians have died and more continue to die right now. Over 1.2 million Sudanese have been displaced from their homes.
Finally though, Powell did say "genocide" so maybe now something will get done.
Although all this time, neither the Bush administration or the U.N. would call the situation genocide. A step which would authorize other nations to intervene under international law.
Maybe cause the Sudanese don̢۪t have something to offer us in exchange for our help.. like oil?
My attempt here is to shine light on what does not get covered on TV. This is the reality of what̢۪s going on now. I am sickened when I hear Bush speak of the good things he has done and the millions he liberated in Iraq while poor tribes in Africa have their men murdered in front of the women and children, while those women and children are raped.
People in Iraq were not living like this.
RonB will probably follow this post with some sort of word mince and twist around of the situation or of what I posted as he always does to defend the Bush administration. I hope you can see my message with my original post and are not 'outfoxed' by what others may say. |
Here's my "word twist"
The Bush Administration HAS called the situation in Darfur genocide:
"We have concluded that genocide has taken place in Darfur. We urge the international community to work with us to prevent and suppress acts of genocide,'' Bush said in a statement.
"Only outside action can stop the killing," Bush added.
Bush's statement followed similar comments from Powell, who testified before the U.S. Senate's foreign relations committee.
Now all we need is confirmation from Amnesty International and the U.N. - both of whose pronouncements are viewed by the left as more important than those of the Bush administration.
Ron
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09/11/2004 12:51:09 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by RonB:
Now all we need is confirmation from Amnesty International and the U.N. - both of whose pronouncements are viewed by the left as more important than those of the Bush administration.
Ron |
Who "needs" them before action can be taken? Bush??
That's a funny one, LOL, Ron, a kneeslapper! :D
Along with the Geneva Convention, the above two entities are in Bushes' Top Five Completely Irrelevant List.
How much money would you like to wager that Bush will act to end the Sudan situation? ;D
Message edited by author 2004-09-11 12:52:07. |
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09/11/2004 02:08:31 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by gingerbaker:
Originally posted by RonB:
Now all we need is confirmation from Amnesty International and the U.N. - both of whose pronouncements are viewed by the left as more important than those of the Bush administration.
Ron |
Who "needs" them before action can be taken? Bush?? |
NOW, Yes. Unless, that is, he is willing to fight the same forces that have been bombarding him with criticism for "going it alone" in Iraq. Bush is in the unenviable position that no matter what he does, it's wrong - wrong to take "unilateral" action; wrong to wait on U.N. approval.
Originally posted by gingerbaker:
That's a funny one, LOL, Ron, a kneeslapper! :D
Along with the Geneva Convention, the above two entities are in Bushes' Top Five Completely Irrelevant List. |
You have absolutely no evidence that any of the above is true. None at all. To give you the benefit of the dobut, I'll assume that what you meant to say is that, in your OPINION, it would SEEM that... "
Originally posted by gingerbaker:
How much money would you like to wager that Bush will act to end the Sudan situation? ;D |
No money - I already gamble quite enough - I bet my tax dollars that food stamps will be used to buy food; that grants to artists will be used to produce art; that politicians ( e.g. Senators and Presidents ) will actually work at doing the jobs we pay them to do.
Apart from taking unilateral military action, what 'act' could Bush take that he hasn't already taken? And that kind of action, in today's political environment, could not possibly occur.
But I will predict that either a) The Sudanese government will reign in its terror squads ( the Janjaweed militia ) very soon, or b) Bush will continue to press the U.N. for a declaration of genocide and it's resulting sanctions. Barring that declaration, which seems likely, I predict that Bush will seek congressional approval to send in U.S. troops to secure the peace in the Darfur region, unilaterally if necessary, to protect those being raped and murdered, and to repatriate those who fled the region to avoid being attacked. Mind you, I believe that the Congress will deny that approval unless the U.N. does declare sanctions - after all, they are politicians first and foremost. And Africa is a long way from Washington.
Ultimately, the responsibility for genocide in Sudan falls to the people of all of the democratic nations if action is NOT taken. It is they who vote into office representatives that would rather see Africans die than risk losing a vote in the next election.
To paraphrase Kerry's speech the other day, too many legislators are like those in the story of the good Samaritan - they talk of helping the weak and the poor and the oppressed, but quickly cross to the other side to avoid having to actually get involved.
Ron
Message edited by author 2004-09-11 14:10:58. |
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09/11/2004 05:47:48 PM · #25 |
MadMordegon....
On 8-8-04 in a thread titled "Never Forget" on page 1, I posted 2 reply's including references to Sudan. It is now a month later, the international community STILL has not acted, and young girls are still being mutilated and raped.
I am disapointed that it has taken a month to get your interest and even more disheartened that you do not hold the international community including the UN accountable for these continued atrocities. The primary discussions so far have been TALK but no action. "We condemn the violence". "We call for an end to the fighting". "We demand the Sudanese Govt cease supporting the Janjaweed". "We demand the parties disarm". In the meantime, every day, every night, every hour, young girls are being mutilated and raped as a means to CRUSH the will of the "resistence". Husbands are forced to watch as their wives are gang raped in the center of the village. Girls legs are hacked off so that they cannot run away, then repeatedly raped. A million or more expected to be murdered by years end if not already.
I predicted a month ago that the UN would still be TALKING, and they still are. I've seen this before.
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