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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Cropping Only Challenge
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 09/06/2004 10:34:18 AM · #1
Ok, lets get back to the basics, no tone adjustments, no hue or saturation, just good old fasion picture taking. Lets see what we can do with f stops and shutter speed. So I sugest a challenge were the only editing alowed is cropping. What say you?

Travis
 09/06/2004 10:35:17 AM · #2
I like it. Free Study?
 09/06/2004 10:39:13 AM · #3
how do you prove that no color or contrast adjustments have been made?
 09/06/2004 10:39:40 AM · #4
I think even cropping should be disallowed, like in the 'Past' challenge.
 09/06/2004 10:42:56 AM · #5
Originally posted by longlivenyhc:
how do you prove that no color or contrast adjustments have been made?


Maybe the Honor system, or maybe the judges could determine.

Not real sure on that one.
 09/06/2004 10:43:26 AM · #6
Originally posted by Travis99:
Ok, lets get back to the basics, no tone adjustments, no hue or saturation, just good old fasion picture taking. Lets see what we can do with f stops and shutter speed. So I sugest a challenge were the only editing alowed is cropping. What say you?

Travis


That should be a good one for the masters to handle. I know i wouldn't want to touch it. ( i need my PS )
 09/06/2004 10:51:50 AM · #7
Definitely a good idea - I'm up for it. I really liked the Past challenge.

Oh, you might want to allow rotate. :-)
 09/06/2004 11:14:01 AM · #8
i think if there was a challenge like that, then cropping should absolutely be dis-allowed.
Ansel Adams once said "you don't need a zoom, you need to walk closer" or something like that. same with cropping. If you need to crop, you need to shoot it right the first time.

(I crop all the time)

but if we do a back to the basics challenge, then the final image should be straight from the camera.
 09/06/2004 11:29:24 AM · #9
I like the idea of no cropping. Levels and USM only to equalize cameras a bit. Free study topic would work best I think.

That's one thing I came to this site to learn better--in camera composition, rather than post-editing composition.
 09/06/2004 11:35:57 AM · #10
Originally posted by ericlimon:
i think if there was a challenge like that, then cropping should absolutely be dis-allowed.
Ansel Adams once said "you don't need a zoom, you need to walk closer" or something like that. same with cropping. If you need to crop, you need to shoot it right the first time.

(I crop all the time)

A figure that if I crop the photo, I have at least recognized what the flaws in the original were, take what remedial steps are possible, and learned for future shots.

Adams was a great hiker, but as I recall from my childhood you can't get a closer view of Half Dome from the Glacier Point area without a zoom ...

... And trying to get closer to take this would have made the train conductor mighty upset ... (not to mention the osprey)


Message edited by author 2004-09-06 11:38:37.
 09/06/2004 11:52:26 AM · #11
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Oh, you might want to allow rotate. :-)


Only 90 degrees rotation then to change from portrait to landscape, or vice versa, no arbitraty rotation to straighten a horizon.
 09/06/2004 11:53:25 AM · #12
Originally posted by nshapiro:
I like the idea of no cropping. Levels and USM only to equalize cameras a bit. Free study topic would work best I think.

That's one thing I came to this site to learn better--in camera composition, rather than post-editing composition.


I can see the point of USM, but why levels ? Any camera should allow good exposure, shouldn't it ?
 09/06/2004 12:44:34 PM · #13
Ok no cropping, no ajusting, just rotate. No levels no curves, picture from the camera-resize-rotate(if needed) submit. Thats it.
 09/06/2004 12:48:02 PM · #14
Originally posted by willem:
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Oh, you might want to allow rotate. :-)

Only 90 degrees rotation then to change from portrait to landscape, or vice versa, no arbitraty rotation to straighten a horizon.


Oh yeah good point - that was what I meant!
 09/06/2004 12:49:40 PM · #15
this challenge would be interesting....maybe make it a month long challenge?
 09/06/2004 12:52:32 PM · #16
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Originally posted by willem:
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Oh, you might want to allow rotate. :-)

Only 90 degrees rotation then to change from portrait to landscape, or vice versa, no arbitraty rotation to straighten a horizon.


Oh yeah good point - that was what I meant!


I think it's an interesting idea, but it's sort of akin to asking a film photographer to hand in a negative for judgement. there is always some amount of post processing. ESPECIALLY with black and white. Ansel may not have had photoshop, but he definitely was a hell of a printer. I'm pretty sure he worked on his prints for a long time and didn't just whip his negative on an enlarger and walk away. Digital photography isn't about taking a shot right out of the camera. neither is film.
 09/06/2004 01:06:11 PM · #17
I will agree, photoshop is a great tool. But the better the pictures come out of the camera, the better the will come out of photoshop. So this is a challenge to take better picture, not to see who can enhance the the best. Photography contest, not Photosop contest.
 09/06/2004 01:09:33 PM · #18
Originally posted by Travis99:
I will agree, photoshop is a great tool. But the better the pictures come out of the camera, the better the will come out of photoshop. So this is a challenge to take better picture, not to see who can enhance the the best. Photography contest, not Photosop contest.


I agree...
 09/06/2004 01:14:27 PM · #19
Originally posted by willem:
Originally posted by nshapiro:
I like the idea of no cropping. Levels and USM only to equalize cameras a bit. Free study topic would work best I think.

That's one thing I came to this site to learn better--in camera composition, rather than post-editing composition.


I can see the point of USM, but why levels ? Any camera should allow good exposure, shouldn't it ?


I was basing that on the fact that in doing my new camera research, some cameras do less preprocessing. And when I had my G2 and I always shot RAW, you have to do levels, and in fact would have to do the saturation and gamma adjustments that weren't done in camera. (So maybe those are needed too--or people will have to shoot JPEG!)
09/06/2004 01:14:50 PM · #20
Originally posted by Travis99:
I will agree, photoshop is a great tool. But the better the pictures come out of the camera, the better the will come out of photoshop. So this is a challenge to take better picture, not to see who can enhance the the best. Photography contest, not Photosop contest.


right, but according to what standard? a photog who takes a picture in sRGB will have a brighter, more colorful output than someone who takes one in Adobe, etc... I mean, I'm all for the challenge if that's what people want, but personally I wouldn't want to submit work that was unoptimized, dull, and not representative of my final output as an artist. To me it seems a bit like taking away a major step in the process of creating a photograph. Like I said before, it has little to do with photoshop. The same would be said for film. Photoshop is the digital darkroom. Would Ansel Adams' pictures be the same if had someone else do his darkroom work? I highly doubt it.
 09/06/2004 01:18:02 PM · #21
It would be interesting. Usually I don't crop. If I crop it is just a minor or I want the picture to be a square.

Photoshop? What is that? Well, I use Paintshop but usually just contrast and brightness (that is what I was used to do in the darkroom) and sometimes sharpening and levels but not very often. This lack of post processing is perhaps the reason for my score!
 09/06/2004 01:24:19 PM · #22
Should in camera effects like b/w and sepia be allowed and could the judges tell if the shot was cropped in camera?
 09/06/2004 01:26:31 PM · #23
Originally posted by hanlomba:
I think it's an interesting idea, but it's sort of akin to asking a film photographer to hand in a negative for judgement.

Someone on DPC mentioned a film photography club before where they had a competition to shoot a roll of consumer film and get it developed at a local processors.. Nothing wrong with a challenge..
 09/06/2004 01:34:38 PM · #24
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Originally posted by hanlomba:
I think it's an interesting idea, but it's sort of akin to asking a film photographer to hand in a negative for judgement.

Someone on DPC mentioned a film photography club before where they had a competition to shoot a roll of consumer film and get it developed at a local processors.. Nothing wrong with a challenge..


hehehe...have you ever gotten a roll of film developed at a few different local processors? The outputs will vary greatly depending on which location developed them...again...the printing process (darkroom) is a major portion of photography
 09/06/2004 02:23:08 PM · #25
The pixelation of the image at the sensor produces soft focused, low contrast, low saturation images. These need to be adjusted for, and the best way to adjust for them is in post processing. Not allowing for post processing out of camera makes a challenge like this very camera oriented -- not photographer oriented.

I would be turning back on my in-camera sharpening and contrast to try and get a more dramatic image, but I am not going to fool myself with thinking the in-camera post-processing in my near point and shoot Olympus is on par with what is available in the better cameras.

Also, RAW images are not in a colorspace yet, and there are precedents to viewing any adjustments to a RAW image as being in-camera. Even saying a RAW image must be converted using the as shot exposure, contrast and such doesn't help a lot. As has been mentioned, the choice of which colorspace to convert it to for the final image can have a dramatic effect on the image.

I agree the effect of the image should come from the light captured by the camera and not post-processing, but a challenge of straight from the camera shots is not displaying the ability of the photographer as much as it is that of the camera.

David
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