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08/30/2004 04:59:28 PM · #1 |
I was going to put this in the forum that started me thinking about this, but decided that, even though it was a response, it belonged here in the Rant section.
Using toys shows a lack of creativity?
I'm sorry, but to me a sweeping, blanket statement like that shows a lot more lack of creativity in the speaker than the people it was aimed at.
If your requirement for a good picture includes no use of toys, why don't you just skip voting on any of those offending shots? It seems your mind was made up before seeing any of them anyway.
I've notice something going on at this site in the last year that I have been here that is similar to government. The government seems to think it must justify its existence by making new laws all the time, refining existing ones and adding more to complicate codes by which we live. It seems that many of the voters here are under the impression that they need to constantly refine and burden the way they vote so that definitions of "Meeting the Challenge" get narrower each week. There are many more threads now on trying to define how a picture will fit the topic (and before the entries are even seen) than there were even 6 months ago.
Most voters are sensible people who use "On/Off topic" in their voting without getting nit-picky. I'm very loose in my interpretation even though it is a part of how I score a shot. Hey, how about trying something new?
VOTE ON EVERY SHOT AS IF IT WERE THE ONLY ENTRY IN THE CHALLENGE!
So what if you have already seen 8 flower shots? Does that mean you have to start lowering your vote on flower shots? Just because several people have similar ideas, does not make any individual one (or the group) uncreative. Don't vote down all shots of cats or dogs or flowers or toys just because you don't like that subject. In fact, if I have a personal bias against a subject, I give those shots extra time and work harder to give them a fair shake in my judging.
I feel that I need to go back and change my votes on all shots with toys in them to 10's just to try and counter some of the vitriol and prejudice I see here. But then again, I can't. That would show a lack of integrity.
And, YES. I am doing very poorly with my entry. And, NO. I am not complaining about it (it̢۪s just my tough luck). I'm complaining about what I see as a "Better than thou" leaning that appears to be gaining ground at this site. As for me, I have actually raised my average vote per shot in the last few months. I realized I was starting to fall into this trap and hope I can avoid it in the future.
drg
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08/30/2004 05:07:04 PM · #2 |
Personally, I don't think all toy shots are uncreative by any means. However, after looking at (and voting on) all of the images in the Fairytales challenge, I only saw 3 that I scored higher than 5. None of these used toys, so for this challenge I would say I didn't see a lot of creativity in the photographs that used toys.
I agree that such a sweeping statement is useless. I just wish somebody would have proved that statement false in this challenge. |
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08/30/2004 05:09:04 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by drgsoell:
I was going to put this in the forum that started me thinking about this, but decided that, even though it was a response, it belonged here in the Rant section.
Using toys shows a lack of creativity?
I'm sorry, but to me a sweeping, blanket statement like that shows a lot more lack of creativity in the speaker than the people it was aimed at.
If your requirement for a good picture includes no use of toys, why don't you just skip voting on any of those offending shots? It seems your mind was made up before seeing any of them anyway.
I've notice something going on at this site in the last year that I have been here that is similar to government. The government seems to think it must justify its existence by making new laws all the time, refining existing ones and adding more to complicate codes by which we live. It seems that many of the voters here are under the impression that they need to constantly refine and burden the way they vote so that definitions of "Meeting the Challenge" get narrower each week. There are many more threads now on trying to define how a picture will fit the topic (and before the entries are even seen) than there were even 6 months ago.
Most voters are sensible people who use "On/Off topic" in their voting without getting nit-picky. I'm very loose in my interpretation even though it is a part of how I score a shot. Hey, how about trying something new?
VOTE ON EVERY SHOT AS IF IT WERE THE ONLY ENTRY IN THE CHALLENGE!
So what if you have already seen 8 flower shots? Does that mean you have to start lowering your vote on flower shots? Just because several people have similar ideas, does not make any individual one (or the group) uncreative. Don't vote down all shots of cats or dogs or flowers or toys just because you don't like that subject. In fact, if I have a personal bias against a subject, I give those shots extra time and work harder to give them a fair shake in my judging.
I feel that I need to go back and change my votes on all shots with toys in them to 10's just to try and counter some of the vitriol and prejudice I see here. But then again, I can't. That would show a lack of integrity.
And, YES. I am doing very poorly with my entry. And, NO. I am not complaining about it (it’s just my tough luck). I'm complaining about what I see as a "Better than thou" leaning that appears to be gaining ground at this site. As for me, I have actually raised my average vote per shot in the last few months. I realized I was starting to fall into this trap and hope I can avoid it in the future.
drg |
I was starting to fall into it myself, and I'm trying to change. As for the toy entries, I thought there were a number of very well thought out entries using toys.. toys are a subject, just like anything else. Either you use them well, or you don't. I voted accordingly.
Great post. It really articulated some of the things I've been thinking on lately. I like your analogy of Government. I'd used "civilization" in the past to explain what goes on with sites like this once membership starts rising. "Too many cooks spoil the broth" as some would say, although I think that in the end, it all evens out.
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08/30/2004 05:17:49 PM · #4 |
Actually, posts similar to this show up very frequently. People will vote how they vote. You can't please everyone... Take the shots that you like and don't worry about your scores.
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08/30/2004 05:18:04 PM · #5 |
Good point, well said!
I have not entered very many challenges whilst I have been here, most of the time because I think the shot may be marked down for not meeting the challenge. I try to meet the challenge 100% and not use tenuous links or use the title to make the connection. I don't get much time to go out and shoot specifically for a challenge
As for the use of toys? well, if its well shot and meets the challenge it should not lose marks because its a toy and not a 'real' model.
Woody is your friend :)
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08/30/2004 05:19:58 PM · #6 |
I have just finished my initial round of voting that i'll fine tune.
My feeling is that a lot of the toy shots rely on the design of the toy itself to make the impact and those I am marking down.
But several photographers have used a toy as a prop within their image, in the same way someone might use a human model in theirs. They have designed a setting into which that toy was placed - the setting, lighting and composition decisions add something so that the image is more than just an image of the toy itself. Those I'm scoring more highly.
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08/30/2004 06:02:50 PM · #7 |
I agree with what Kavey said,
"They have designed a setting into which that toy was placed - the setting, lighting and composition decisions add something so that the image is more than just an image of the toy itself."
No offense to anyone, but an army figurine doesn't really fit into the Fairy Tales I'm familiar with.
Some people just used toys because they are small.
Some people put a little more effort into their photos, instead of just submitting a snap shot.
And I totally disagree with the thought that people are "vote(ing) down all shots of cats or dogs or flowers or toys just because you don't like that subject."
I love dogs and toys and cats and flowers, but if it doesn't meet the challenge or if it's just a snap shot, then why should you vote it higher? If the challenge was "cats" would you vote high on an excellent photo of a cookie? I hope not.
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08/30/2004 07:08:43 PM · #8 |
I did not say or imply that everyone was voting down because of subject, just a small minority. (I have seen posts from people saying that is exactly what they did, so it DOES happen).
As I said, I'm sure that most people CAN see around a large number of similar shots and vote each on it's own merit. Those are the judges that keep me here. I'm glad they seem to outnumber those who are narrow in their interpretations.
I know and understand that each person has their own way of judging and would also be upset if someone told me my voting methods suck.
I also never meant that a shot should be voted higher because you like the subject any more than it should be voted lower because you don't like the subject. Photo quality is still the major focus of voting. But, again, each person has their own priorities in voting and that's the way it should be.
drg |
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