photo shoot - DPChallenge Forums

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

08/23/2004 07:23:34 PM · #3

Uhhhhmmm, yeah.

In my experience being nervous has to do with expectations. Expecting too much from yourself or thinking that others will expect something out of you when you don't think you can produce it leads to nervousness (IMO).

The more I shoot with models the more that I find that I am a relatively inexperienced photographer who is just beginning to scratch the surface of artistic expression and just now learning how to enhance a composition with light. As I begin to accept the things that I can do at an acceptable level I become less concerned with missing out on all the stuff I haven't mastered yet. Sure, I don't have a studio sometimes I come back in from a photoshoot and am disgusted with my work. Of course, I'm reminded that my review (or even the review of other photogs) isn't pertinent to what models or even magazines like. Sometimes the stuff I think is gonna be crap because of a shadow or because of a bad composition may be exactly what someone else likes because to them they see the subject's eyes or hair or tattoo or whatever. I think its important to realize what pressures you place upon yourself and understand that while its important to have goals about your work, those goals aren't what everyone else sees or even how they evaluate your work.

Having said that the first step is "all in your head", I will also admit that part of the trouble is actually working with the model. Just like photographers are at different places in learning to compose shots and express themselves visually, models are at different places in showing expressions or hitting poses. Some models hit poses the first time they're in front of a camera and some don't. Some people truly emote in front of the lens and some just try to find a pose. The best thing you can do to help yourself when working with a subject is to not put him or her off; don't make the experience bad. Be gracious even if you decide to tell the model that you just don't feel like you're working towards a mutual goal. Models won't necessarily remember little tricks of lighting and posing that you may show them but they will remember how you interact with them and that can either become good word of mouth or a point of contention. Do an honest job of trying to put the model (and parent or chaperone) at ease, treat them with respect and you'll find that they usually want to cooperate with you to produce good work even if you can't offer them thousands of dollars or fame.

When it comes to posing the model and composing the shot the first thing to do just to get a few frames under your belt would probably be some headshots. Fill the frame with the model's face. Keeping the model inside the frame tends to be more of a traditional photo; breaking the outline of the model tends to give the feeling that the subject is "larger than life" and can give more of an organic, intimate feeling to the photo. Take your time before a shot and decide if a particular pose looks realistic or if it just looks too uncomfortable to be believable. One of the keys of portrait work is to separate the subject from the background. This can be accomplished through shallow depth of field which is generated by using wide open f-stops. Often depending on my distance from a model I'll shoot at f/1.8 or 2.8 just because I can. If I have to resort to f/4, I'll try to move them farther from the background and lessen my distance from the model so that the depth of field is still shallow enough to separate the subject from the environment. A little flash or reflector (white posterboard or foam-core board) can work wonders on lightening up the shadows that will inevitably show up in outdoor work. Learning to master the user of a reflector will take you a few outings but its actually not too difficult.

That's a short list. The main thing is to remember that if this is the first of many, you don't have to conquer the world; its just supposed to be fun trying. Hope you enjoy your set and share those shots with us.

Kev

parrothead

Canon EOS-40D

08/23/2004 07:50:37 PM · #4

Hey Kevin
I really enjoyed that decription, and I feel the same about model shots. What I really wanted to kow was a bit more about One Model place, and how that works? I have a few aspiring models that are interested in braodening their exposure, and that seems interesting? And helpful info?

dacrazyrn

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

08/23/2004 08:01:23 PM · #5

Hey Kevin, thanks for answering her question. More things to think about.

When I did my FIRST (and only so far) model shoot, I did what Kevin has mentioned (can't remember where I read it at) about doing head shots first. It helps get rid of the jitters. You are closer and they will probably see your hand shake just a touch. If you have a small CF card, use that, and think off it as practice for these. Then put in your regular card "for real."

Definitely think about the lighting. You can get in a hurry as I did and (even though I wanted the backlighting), forgot to use the flash, to fill in some. SOme came out okay, but most of them the shadows had no detail (in the hair).

Do be a bit assertive! I have a hard time with that anyway, but my model would not give up this unnatural pose, even though I tried to get her to move out of it sudtley (she liked the shots though).

I am now working on remembering to FILL THE SHADOWS some more!

Oh yeah!! Off to get me that new SB-800 flash to increase the remembering! (C:

Hey, Kevin....Thanks again for all the pointers in my forum post

By the way....the finished pics she chose out are HERE, if you want to look.

PS CS editing instruction/learning obtained from The Art of Photographing Women by Kevin Ames

Chiqui

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II

Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

08/24/2004 02:29:01 AM · #6

Thanks for the reply Kevin. So, how exactly does TFP work? How many prints do you give the model? Do you give her/him your favorite shot/s or does the model pick what she/he wants? Where do you print the shots you'll give the model? Do you tell the model this is your first time? So many questions.....!

June

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

08/24/2004 07:36:01 AM · #7

With TFP you have to spend your time editing the photos and printing them. That's worth something (see story below) so I normally work it like this:

1 proof CD with all images cut down to around 150-200kb. No editing is done to these images so they may look a little dark or light or they may have a color cast and all of them come out a little blurry since no USM.

Model selects 12 poses from the shoot. I've checked with others who have more years of experience and a professional photographer with a studio and an established career with print or fashion modeling will generally give 2 prints per session. My closest market is Atlanta so you may find differences in larger markets.

I then print ten 5x7's and two 8x10's for them.
I also burn all 12 images to a CD in both 5x7 and 8x10 sizes so that they can take the CD to Wolf Camera, Ritz Camera, Wal-Mart, Costco, etc and reprint the images anytime they want.

In my experience models can find it daunting to select 12 photos out of a CD of 750 images so I also offer to select the poses and suggest what I think is a good set for them.
I have printed shots from Shutterfly, a few from DPCPrints, Wolf Camera but I find most often that people like the results from the Canon i960 printer I have at home. The colors tend to be more vibrant and closer to real life. The photos are guaranteed to last for over a decade and no model will have a particular photo in his/her book for that long (nor will an agency) so you don't run into the same problem with archiving them as if you were printing them for the model to hang on the wall.

As a time-saver to me I offer TFCD as well but I've only had one model choose that and it didn't seem to work out at well. The model originally wanted TFP but during the shoot realized how much we were shooting and how I was changing some of the lighting and composition and so decided to take all the images on CD. With TFCD I simply perform a minor bulk edit to all images, burn them to CD and mail the CD's to the model. Because I don't edit the levels, saturation, burn or dodge anything, etc I warn the models about what they will have to do to produce a photo like the ones I produce. I explain why they get all the photos and why models who choose TFP only get 12: because it can be time-consuming to edit a dozen photos for someone's portfolio. If the model assures me that he/she knows or can find someone to help them edit the photos then I write on the model release form how they chose to be compensated and that they agree to perform all the edits to the photos. Back to my example, I mailed two CD's worth of 6 megapixel images to the model and got a phone call the next week asking why when she took the photos to Wal-Mart to have them printed their machine wanted to default to 4x6 format. I reminded the model that the photos would have to be edited both for production quality effects and for sizing otherwise it would be difficult to determine how any printing machine would choose to handle the images. The model was happy with the images I had edited to put into my gallery but didn't understand what it would take to edit the output of the 10D into a print quality image for a portfolio. Now as much as I'd like to help someone, my time is worth something to me, my family and the other models I work with so I have to draw a line somewhere. If a model wants TFP then that means that I'll spend several hours in front of the computer editing shots not just to my taste but for the model's book. It's not just all about what I do on location or in a studio, it also includes me producing a final quality photo that they can be proud to take to a casting call or leave with an agency.

In the end, it really boils down to what you and the model work out. I like shooting TFP with people who can't afford a $300-2500 bill for photos so that they can "break into" a business where they probably won't end up making a living. Realistically I have a niche look that I tend to produce but it isn't consistently edgy enough for full-time models to seek me out if they want to add to their book. I shoot a good "beauty" or "natural" photo that can at least give them one clean, clear shot to show themselves but I don't shoot much right now that shows their range or even their form. That doesn't mean that what they get from me doesn't have value and sometimes it becomes difficult to define at what point I've done enough and at what point I can afford to give more. I have some models for whom I'll blur the line consciously and some that its a "once and done" just because once they have some of my shots they don't really need any others. Sometimes it has to do with how diligently a model works with me and sometimes it has to do with how much effort a model's family puts into it. Modeling is a serious business for some and just a distraction for others. I like the part I get to play in it now and I am working to expand my experience and build a base of models that know me and respect my work.

I have told models on several occasions that something is my first. I was hesitant at first but I find that once you feel comfortable about how professionally you are going to approach something and you realize that any skill like working with a model to produce the highest quality shot you can is going to take years to really hone down to the point where you have a signature style then you'll find that you begin to exude that confidence. Once you let a model know that you are going to get some shots that he/she will be proud of and then you begin to follow through on that commitment by taking several shots, changing the composition, changing the lighting, considering the work that you're producing; well, then the model begins to trust your professionalism and it becomes easier to trust each other and get into a groove together. Originally I did that by shooting hundreds of photos. Recently I've been shooting less and less and producing shots that are closer to what I envision before I press the shutter release.
I try to "warn" models that this is my first time taking whatever kinds of photos they want but that I'm going to work to get the shot they want and more often than not what I hear is that they like my other work and they trust that I'm going to work with them to produce good shots.

Well, that's another ton o' typing. Gotta get ready and head to the world of programming so I can keep on shooting for fun. I'm taking a camera club out this afternoon to shoot some nature photos at a local park. Wish me luck.

Kev

peecee

Canon EOS-5D

08/24/2004 09:35:31 AM · #8

Fascinating Kevin,
thanks for sharing.

09/09/2004 03:17:48 PM · #9

Kevin, thank you for taking the time to explain the TFP to us. Being inspired by some of the work with models produced for this site, I joined one-model-place and within 2 days I had 6 experienced models wanting to work with me based on the photos on my Web site - I thought I would get to photograph inexperienced models so we both would be learning. I'm a bit nervous - you wonder if the model is going to look at you like you're an idiot if you use a certain lighting pattern or backdrop, etc. But, I'm a big girl and I'll handle it :) Sunday I will be getting my feet wet with two inexperienced girls, one 16 and one 4 that came from the one model place site.

Question - what type of contract do you sign before the session. The model release and what else?

The 4 year old is coming with her mother but the 16 year old will be coming alone but said her guardian will sign the model release and she'll bring that. Do you see any problems with that arrangement?

Gil P

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

09/09/2004 04:18:35 PM · #10

I do pretty much the same, exept I'll do at least 1 or 2 Edited shots..since many people don't know the potential of spot editing (and my friend neatimage!). This way I can "show" them on what Not to judge a shot unacceptable.

I also erase all shots I consider "usless", then, in a way I copied off Martin Perrault aka DrJones), I make a folder called "selection" with about 25% of the shots and from that I make another folder called "top 10" with my top ten favorites.

I shoot in raw so it's a issue since I also have to give a copy of the reader.

Message edited by author 2004-09-09 16:19:57.

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II

09/09/2004 05:03:51 PM · #11

Jo Ann,

Congrats on your upcoming shoot. I'm sure you'll have a blast and take some awesome shots. Please post some here for us to enjoy.

I have the model (or in the case of a minor, the model's parent/guardian) sign a model release form. You can see my basic one at //www.kevinriggs.com/model%20release.pdf. I have these printed in duplicate with the back page in canary yellow, carbonless paper. They're gummed together at Kinko's. When we finish a shoot I write what the model should expect to receive from the session in the margin (1 proof CD of all frames shot, 1 final CD with 12 poses in both 8x10 and 5x7 format, ten 5x7 prints to leave with agencies and two 8x10's to put into their book). I ask the model to fill out the information and then ask either the model or parent/guardian to sign the release form. They get the yellow, carbonless copy and I have the original. I usually post up to a dozen images from the shoot the very same day so that they can see how a slightly retouched photo looks. That way when they receive their proof CD and the images look less sharp or they notice that they had a pimple that wasn't covered well or something like that, they can see just how I can clean up the image for them. So far this works well for me. I, too, have a couple of sessions this weekend. I'm shooting 2 models I've never worked with before; 1 Saturday morning (going for the early morning lighting) and 1 Sunday afternoon. Hopefully we can share shots with each other and have fun discussing the good points and the bad points of model portraiture.

Good luck,

Kev

Chiqui

Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

09/09/2004 05:10:29 PM · #12

Well, if I want to get a couple models for when I go home, I guess I'll have to join one model place. However, it seems like a waste of money to me since I live in Italy and the only time I'll use it is for those sessions I wanna do in Miami.

June

09/09/2004 05:32:41 PM · #13

Originally posted by KevinRiggs:

Kevin, I'm so happy you saw this! I'll be sure to post the photos here -- I'm a show-off, you know.

Thank you so much for the information and for your generosity.

Jo Ann

Message edited by author 2004-09-09 17:36:51.

09/09/2004 06:03:29 PM · #14

Originally posted by chiqui74:

June,

If you just want to browse but don't want a portfolio on OMP they used to have a Bronze membership that didn't cost anything. If they have done away with that option then you could just open a Silver account ($9.95 per month) for one month. Frankly, you might find that it would be just as profitable for you to just try and make local contacts when you get back stateside. There should be no end to models down in Miami and unless you were wanting to drop $50-150/hour on a professional model I don't know that you'd find what you want on OMP in such a short amount of time.

Kev

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 16-85 f/3.5-5.6G ED VR

09/09/2004 06:44:05 PM · #15

Originally posted by KevinRiggs:

Originally posted by chiqui74:
Well, if I want to get a couple models for when I go home, I guess I'll have to join one model place. However, it seems like a waste of money to me since I live in Italy and the only time I'll use it is for those sessions I wanna do in Miami.

June

June,

If you just want to browse but don't want a portfolio on OMP they used to have a Bronze membership that didn't cost anything. If they have done away with that option then you could just open a Silver account ($9.95 per month) for one month. Frankly, you might find that it would be just as profitable for you to just try and make local contacts when you get back stateside. There should be no end to models down in Miami and unless you were wanting to drop $50-150/hour on a professional model I don't know that you'd find what you want on OMP in such a short amount of time.

Kev

I got a one-year bronze membership for $10.00. It's working for me so far.

cbeller

Nikon D300

09/09/2004 07:03:47 PM · #16

I just upgraded my OMP account to Silver ($50/yr). I couldn't stand only having 5 photos in my profile. :-)

OMP is definately keeping me busy.

09/13/2004 08:54:16 PM · #17

Here are the first two images from my first model's shoot yesterday. The b & w might just be my favorite because I love the way her face is lit, the detail in the dress, and it is candid. This is Keeyana and she was wonderful to work with -- I think I took about 200 photos and there are some terrible ones because of the photographer - most unrecoverably dark but most are salvageable. She really enjoyed working with me too and wants to come back. BTW, do you know how darn heavy and awkward a 9 ft roll of seamless is? I had to have a friend pick it up and the store for me (doesn't fit in a Corolla) but that was the easy part - sometimes I wish there was a man around the house :)

Here's Keeyana..

09/13/2004 11:12:46 PM · #18

Left you a comment on both the shots. Very nice work. I love that 2nd shot. Good anticipation or heads-up work noticing and firing off a frame to catch that look.

Yeah, the paper is a PITA isn't it.

Kev