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08/04/2004 02:10:51 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by jenesis:
Like accidently pushing the "10" vote instead of the Forward arrow....
I can't tell you how many times I've done that, then had to go back and fix it.... Sorry 'bout that. :) |
I think you missed mine and accidentally hit the Forward arrow. ;-) |
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08/04/2004 02:37:25 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by caba:
Originally posted by Bassie:
I think my score suffered because of the ewwww factor for this picture. My worst finish yet at 291st place.
As for the Frame Picture by ConcreteDonkey, I thought it was hilarious. Not a picture I'd hang on my wall but one to show friends for a laugh. Keep up the great work Concrete! Btw, you have some excellent pictures in your profile. |
I liked this image, it made it into my top 10 list for this challenge. I'm not supprised at the low score with the way people vote. My blue moon shot is getting the same treatment, lot of good comments and low scores, they either love it or hate it. Won't stop me from thinking outside the box. |
Ditto that! Now I'm not saying I don't have a lot to learn but I like the 'outisde the box' stuff - both my attempts and others' - when I see one that has been executed well, I reward that photographer with a high score. And I also try to give people credit for their creativity even if their technical merit is a little lacking. I figure if they have the balls to 'put it out there' then I should at least give their image more than a passing glance. It might get a low score but I do try to explain those votes when I leave them.
One more little tidbit - when I'm pissed off about my score, or something going on in my life, or generally in a pissy mood, I don't vote. It's not fair to everyone else.
Well, now that I've bored every one to tears.... |
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08/04/2004 02:51:12 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by Rooster:
Yeah, the guy gives out a lot of 1's but not all his comments are bad. He does seem a bit on the racist side to me with some of his comments & the pics he likes & dislikes but that's his opinion & his right. There are no limitations on how many 1s a voter can give or how someone can offer a comment. The sarcasm is weak & if I got a comment from him, I would just over look it.
Plus, think of it this way, the dude has not entered a challenge & his average score is a 2.9. This is not someone that is here to learn or offer advice as per the purpose of this community. He's obvious just a joker. |
I read through all his comments, and while he seems to have a rather narrow idea of what he likes, I did not find anything in his comments to even suggest racism. Could you enlighten me on what it is you found recist?
David
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08/04/2004 05:56:10 PM · #54 |
I too agree. The voting is pretty bad.
My photo came in 41st, there where a lot of good photos in the contest but from the comments I really though my rating would of been higher.
My Photo
Some of the images really didn't even fit into the contest. Although everyday objects can subjective, but a chrome Gazing ball on the beach is not an everyday object. It was a nice photo though.
Does anyone else feel like this or is it just me. |
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08/04/2004 06:21:09 PM · #55 |
| Being in or near the top 40 out of 363 submissions isn't too shabby. :-) I do kind of agree with you about the gazing ball thing though. Although it is a wonderful shot. |
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08/04/2004 06:29:11 PM · #56 |
| It's debatable whether that gazing ball is an everyday object, but I suppose if everybody recognizes it, then it qualifies. With only three people voting that shot below a 4, I'd say most folks agree. I didn't enter this challenge, so I can neither complain nor celebrate. |
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08/04/2004 06:51:36 PM · #57 |
Someone should write a tutorial on how to vote since no one can seem to get it right.
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08/05/2004 12:50:06 AM · #58 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
It's debatable whether that gazing ball is an everyday object, but I suppose if everybody recognizes it, then it qualifies. With only three people voting that shot below a 4, I'd say most folks agree. I didn't enter this challenge, so I can neither complain nor celebrate. |
I personally have never seen a gazing ball before. Didn't even know such a thing existed. It didn't stop me from voting high because a ball in general is an everyday object. Same goes for the baseball mentioned above. It didn't matter to me that it had an autograph on it nor did it necessarily matter that it was a base-ball. After reading some of the debate here I'm surprised nobody quibbled over what brand toothbrush people were photographing. |
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08/05/2004 01:21:08 AM · #59 |
Originally posted by louddog:
Someone should write a tutorial on how to vote since no one can seem to get it right. |
Firstly, I mean no disrespect to you, but I'd like you to consider another perspective. Saying no one can get it right is like saying no one voted right in an election. Or that the price of a share of stock moved the wrong direction because no one bought or sold right.
DPC is a perfect example of a perfect market. Evryone has access to exactly the same information at exactly the same time. They express their informed opinion in exactly the same way. And the voters (collectively) are exactly right exactly all the time. We may not share the view of the market. The market may be full of voters with unequally distributed taste, talent or ability to discriminate. But it is perfect.
This doesn't mean the voters can't become more knowledgeable or that the mechanism can't be improved. It surely can.
My simple advice is, "don't fight the problem. If you're unhappy with the decisions of Mr. Market, take and present better photos."
I am grumpy with the performance of my last two submissions. But their performance is my fault for not seeing flaws others saw, for not thinking hard enough about composition, for choosing a subject that fit the challenge less well than others, for being satisfied with post processing too soon. But not the fault of the voters who can't seem to get it right. |
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08/05/2004 01:27:53 AM · #60 |
Originally posted by Digital Quixote:
Originally posted by louddog:
Someone should write a tutorial on how to vote since no one can seem to get it right. |
Firstly, I mean no disrespect to you, but I'd like you to consider another perspective. Saying no one can get it right is like saying no one voted right in an election. Or that the price of a share of stock moved the wrong direction because no one bought or sold right.
DPC is a perfect example of a perfect market. Evryone has access to exactly the same information at exactly the same time. They express their informed opinion in exactly the same way. And the voters (collectively) are exactly right exactly all the time. We may not share the view of the market. The market may be full of voters with unequally distributed taste, talent or ability to discriminate. But it is perfect.
This doesn't mean the voters can't become more knowledgeable or that the mechanism can't be improved. It surely can.
My simple advice is, "don't fight the problem. If you're unhappy with the decisions of Mr. Market, take and present better photos."
I am grumpy with the performance of my last two submissions. But their performance is my fault for not seeing flaws others saw, for not thinking hard enough about composition, for choosing a subject that fit the challenge less well than others, for being satisfied with post processing too soon. But not the fault of the voters who can't seem to get it right. |
Very well said.
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08/05/2004 01:30:56 AM · #61 |
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Most of the people here are either closet panty sniffers or cross-dressers at heart. |
Why ya gotta call me out like that?
But on a serious note. This is a community site. The community is kinda like someone's brain. It sifts through all the images presented to it and sorts them into a (for the brain) logical order. There's no way to change the sort order without changing the brain. You can't change the brain without recruiting or elimating members to make the brain think like you want it too. You can't change it, so live with it...
Edited for clarity...
Message edited by author 2004-08-05 01:34:46.
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08/05/2004 01:35:40 AM · #62 |
Originally posted by TooCool:
You can't change it, so live with it...
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And better. Thanks, TC!
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08/05/2004 01:36:08 AM · #63 |
Originally posted by Digital Quixote:
Originally posted by louddog:
Someone should write a tutorial on how to vote since no one can seem to get it right. |
Firstly, I mean no disrespect to you, but I'd like you to consider another perspective. Saying no one can get it right is like saying no one voted right in an election. Or that the price of a share of stock moved the wrong direction because no one bought or sold right.
DPC is a perfect example of a perfect market. Evryone has access to exactly the same information at exactly the same time. They express their informed opinion in exactly the same way. And the voters (collectively) are exactly right exactly all the time. We may not share the view of the market. The market may be full of voters with unequally distributed taste, talent or ability to discriminate. But it is perfect.
This doesn't mean the voters can't become more knowledgeable or that the mechanism can't be improved. It surely can.
My simple advice is, "don't fight the problem. If you're unhappy with the decisions of Mr. Market, take and present better photos."
I am grumpy with the performance of my last two submissions. But their performance is my fault for not seeing flaws others saw, for not thinking hard enough about composition, for choosing a subject that fit the challenge less well than others, for being satisfied with post processing too soon. But not the fault of the voters who can't seem to get it right. |
Here, here! Well said.
That said, the votes do tend to be lower than the 5.5 average of the voting scale. I haven't run the numbers to know for certain, but it looks like the average of all challenges is somewhere around 5.2, but has ranged well down into the 4's. So getting in the mid to upper 4's or mid to lower 5's puts you squarely in the middle area, where the vast majority will alwasy be. That is not to say any specific individual will stay there indifinitely, but that the largest number of participants will always be crowded around the average. The worst part is that very little of interest happens there. It is an area of few comments (for the most part) and those comments that are received are usually rather dull in themselves. The occasional contriversial shot falls in this range, defying the above statements, but they do not number that many.
yeah, i'm just thinking aloud. :p
David
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08/05/2004 01:37:42 AM · #64 |
Originally posted by Digital Quixote:
My simple advice is, "don't fight the problem. If you're unhappy with the decisions of Mr. Market, take and present better photos."
I am grumpy with the performance of my last two submissions. But their performance is my fault for not seeing flaws others saw, for not thinking hard enough about composition, for choosing a subject that fit the challenge less well than others, for being satisfied with post processing too soon. But not the fault of the voters who can't seem to get it right. |
I see we were thinking the same thing. You did it much more eloquantly!
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08/05/2004 01:41:04 AM · #65 |
I agree with Quixote. Whatever the system each entrant is subject to the same treatment. The major fault can be found with the photographer. You must be able to capture the collective mood. Your picture can not be just averaged well focused and well exposed. No, to hold a respectable standing in any challenge requires superior composition with above average presentation. All the rest that falls off may be attributed more to the photographer than to the voter.
Possibly the worst we do to ourselves is to give our entry a value. No, no. This will not work because otherwise why be here. It is not your call. As Don Quixote points out that destiny rests with the open market.
I too at the start complained about the voting system, but then it dawns on me that what the voting machinery dishes out, it does so for all because the voting is blind from its source.
Yes, there are many imperfections and sometimes the collective vote will be enamored with certain subjects or emotions and this pushes a wrong image all the way up, but in the long wrong the consistency of the members, provided they hang around enough, is evident in their average.
Best not to second guess the voting block and concentrate on presenting a better image next time around. I see no better way to improve and hone one's talent. |
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08/05/2004 01:42:03 AM · #66 |
Originally posted by Britannica:
It is an area of few comments (for the most part) and those comments that are received are usually rather dull in themselves. The occasional contriversial shot falls in this range, defying the above statements, but they do not number that many.
yeah, i'm just thinking aloud. :p
David |
Most of the comments are actually quite positive, which is wonderful. But for the poor scores, they don't always tell you much. I think that people are scared away by the the folks who are hurt or angered by the comments unfortunately, but understandably).
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08/05/2004 01:46:27 AM · #67 |
[quote=graphicfunk] I agree with Quixote. Whatever the system each entrant is subject to the same treatment.
Sorry - this is my last post - but I agree with that.
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08/05/2004 02:27:01 AM · #68 |
Originally posted by Digital Quixote:
DPC is a perfect example of a perfect market.... My simple advice is, "don't fight the problem. If you're unhappy with the decisions of Mr. Market, take and present better photos." |
I actually think it's far from perfect - and because a photo does not do well in the eyes of the majority doesn't mean it is arbitrarily a worse photo. Using this analogy McDonalds should be presumed to be the best food in the world!
I think what you may mean to say is: 'If being rated low bothers you, then go and take some shots that appeal more to the masses."
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08/05/2004 10:36:31 AM · #69 |
Good news, that user has been indefinitely suspended! That's probably why my score went up :)
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08/05/2004 10:58:23 AM · #70 |
Originally posted by Digital Quixote:
Originally posted by louddog:
Someone should write a tutorial on how to vote since no one can seem to get it right. |
Firstly, I mean no disrespect to you, but I'd like you to consider another perspective. Saying no one can get it right is like saying no one voted right in an election. Or that the price of a share of stock moved the wrong direction because no one bought or sold right.
DPC is a perfect example of a perfect market. Evryone has access to exactly the same information at exactly the same time. They express their informed opinion in exactly the same way. And the voters (collectively) are exactly right exactly all the time. We may not share the view of the market. The market may be full of voters with unequally distributed taste, talent or ability to discriminate. But it is perfect.
This doesn't mean the voters can't become more knowledgeable or that the mechanism can't be improved. It surely can.
My simple advice is, "don't fight the problem. If you're unhappy with the decisions of Mr. Market, take and present better photos."
I am grumpy with the performance of my last two submissions. But their performance is my fault for not seeing flaws others saw, for not thinking hard enough about composition, for choosing a subject that fit the challenge less well than others, for being satisfied with post processing too soon. But not the fault of the voters who can't seem to get it right. |
Perhaps it is a perfect market, but we can adjust how the images are presented to the market to help improve the selection process. For example, if individuals cherry picking images based on thumbnails and only voting on the images that interest, or disgust, them could skew the results, the voting process could be adjusted to only present full size images until voting is complete. I don't know that cherry picking your 1s or 10s from thumbnails could skew the results, but it is the best example I could think of.
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08/05/2004 04:10:31 PM · #71 |
HELP WITH VOTING PLEASE!
I think I have been fair to the photos I have voted on. If I missed the mark on any, I want to take the time to apologize to the photographer. I have been registered for a while now but just started voting. I have not submitted a photograph to date. I want to get my voting process fine tuned before I enter any photos of my own. I think understanding how to vote is very important. I would like to tell you how I vote and get your opinion to see if I am doing it right. All replies would be helpful.
First I vote giving photos a 5, 6, or 7. Based on if the photos meet the challenge, Quality, Creativity, and technique. After I have voted on all photos I then go back and bump up or down. I may go through the process three times before I am happy with the way I voted. I believe that NO photo submitted should get a 1 or 2 (unless the photo is aimed at degrading someone or a group, etc.). At least the photographer took the time to submit his/her photo. I want to be fair to all. Please tell me if this is a good way of voting. If not please give me your advice. Thanks to all that enter each challenge and thanks for any advice.
Scott
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08/05/2004 04:23:32 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by SDW65:
HELP WITH VOTING PLEASE!
I think I have been fair to the photos I have voted on. If I missed the mark on any, I want to take the time to apologize to the photographer. I have been registered for a while now but just started voting. I have not submitted a photograph to date. I want to get my voting process fine tuned before I enter any photos of my own. I think understanding how to vote is very important. I would like to tell you how I vote and get your opinion to see if I am doing it right. All replies would be helpful.
First I vote giving photos a 5, 6, or 7. Based on if the photos meet the challenge, Quality, Creativity, and technique. After I have voted on all photos I then go back and bump up or down. I may go through the process three times before I am happy with the way I voted. I believe that NO photo submitted should get a 1 or 2 (unless the photo is aimed at degrading someone or a group, etc.). At least the photographer took the time to submit his/her photo. I want to be fair to all. Please tell me if this is a good way of voting. If not please give me your advice. Thanks to all that enter each challenge and thanks for any advice.
Scott |
Scott I took a look at your ave vote cast and with that and what you said I think you are right on. |
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08/05/2004 04:33:34 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by Imagineer:
Originally posted by Digital Quixote:
DPC is a perfect example of a perfect market.... My simple advice is, "don't fight the problem. If you're unhappy with the decisions of Mr. Market, take and present better photos." |
I actually think it's far from perfect - and because a photo does not do well in the eyes of the majority doesn't mean it is arbitrarily a worse photo. Using this analogy McDonalds should be presumed to be the best food in the world!
I think what you may mean to say is: 'If being rated low bothers you, then go and take some shots that appeal more to the masses." |
Very well said, Imagineer. |
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08/05/2004 04:41:11 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by SDW65:
HELP WITH VOTING PLEASE!
I think I have been fair to the photos I have voted on. If I missed the mark on any, I want to take the time to apologize to the photographer. I have been registered for a while now but just started voting. I have not submitted a photograph to date. I want to get my voting process fine tuned before I enter any photos of my own. I think understanding how to vote is very important. I would like to tell you how I vote and get your opinion to see if I am doing it right. All replies would be helpful.
First I vote giving photos a 5, 6, or 7. Based on if the photos meet the challenge, Quality, Creativity, and technique. After I have voted on all photos I then go back and bump up or down. I may go through the process three times before I am happy with the way I voted. I believe that NO photo submitted should get a 1 or 2 (unless the photo is aimed at degrading someone or a group, etc.). At least the photographer took the time to submit his/her photo. I want to be fair to all. Please tell me if this is a good way of voting. If not please give me your advice. Thanks to all that enter each challenge and thanks for any advice.
Scott |
You are doing just fine. You are using placeholders and then adjusting. That is a very fair way to do it. |
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08/05/2004 04:45:56 PM · #75 |
I'm working on getting the "Sag" score histogram on my challenge entry...
1 - 40
2 - 20
3 - 10
4 - 5
5 - 1
6 - 1
7 - 5
8 - 10
9 - 20
10 - 40
The perfect balance of art and technique.
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