Average results - how do you rate them?

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

08/01/2004 04:33:18 PM · #1

I've been a member a resonable time now but my challenge entries are few and far between. After making a few silly mistooks I have an average of 4.9945 after 6 challenges. Below average but then again I don't consider it all that bad since I was truly scared of a) joining and b) entering challenges.

DPC has taught me much about photography (especially how to spend money on kit rather than food or clothes). I had become too critical of my own pictures and wouldn't submit to challenges if I felt it would lower my average score, and thus have teetered just below a 5 for over a month.

I have woken up to not worrying too much about my challenge average and submitted to Macro IV with a picture that I like rather than think will take my tally over 5. Expect to see me entering more challenges, I'm sure that will help me improve faster than holding back and only submitting every so often. I know I'm drivelling now but hope you get what I mean?

KaDi

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

08/01/2004 04:50:33 PM · #2

Well, with the risk of once again resurrecting the "How I score" threads and alerting "the math guy"...

5.5 should be average. But it clearly isn't when the challenge winner scores well below a 10. That is why looking at your percentage placement is instructive. (Congrats, Andi, in getting a perfect 50% on your last entry!)

Average, to me:
Average snapshot = 5 (Tries to do more than a snapshot = 6, or more)

Average photo that does not meet the challenge = 2 (Really, really good photo that ignores the challenge = 4)

Average winner by my vote = 8 (Hey, why should I be the one to bust the curve?)

My average # of photos finishing below the 50th percentile (so far) = 52.58%

08/01/2004 05:02:15 PM · #3

Thanks for that Lily, just looking at my results I have had 2 92nd places and 1 93rd place (differings percentiles) but what are the chances of that happening? As for a ribon I think I'll make my own :)

moodville

Nikon D100

08/01/2004 05:08:46 PM · #4

At the end of the day your average score doesnt really mean much. It can, however, be used for personal growth within DPC (not to be confused with personal growth in photography) or lack thereof. If your average is 4.9 and you score a 5.5 then you have improved on your average or if your average is 4.9 and your average increases to 5.1 then it's showing better scores on average.

Submitting images without a care for your average is fine but can be just as bad as submitting images hoping your average doesnt decrease. If you dont think your image would get at least your average score then perhaps posting it in the forums for critique may mean better feedback as oftentimes low-scoring images do not receive as many comments.

Tamron SP AF 17-35mm f/2.8-4 Di LD Aspherical IF for Nikon

08/01/2004 05:26:30 PM · #5

Thanks Moodville and I fully understand. I'm not suggesting I'll be submitting any old picture to all challenges, moreover I'll try to take pictures to submit to more challenges than I do already.

I do submit many pictures to the forum for critique, imho they are mainly good pictures that would score well in a challenge but unfortunately there is never a 'current' challenge that fits my picture.

I have just deleted many pictures from my portfolio that 6 months ago I thought were good, today they are seen as average by me. The challenge aspect of dpc is really testing me but if I knuckle down to seeing, then entering a challenge I'm sure I'll improve in leaps and bounds.

Node

Nikon D300

08/01/2004 05:31:43 PM · #6

Originally posted by Ecce Signum:

I have woken up to not worrying too much about my challenge average and submitted to Macro IV with a picture that I like rather than think will take my tally over 5. Expect to see me entering more challenges, I'm sure that will help me improve faster than holding back and only submitting every so often. I know I'm drivelling now but hope you get what I mean?

Hi Andy. Well I could not even tell you what my average is to tell you the truth. To me its not a true indication as is does not reflect on the performance Vs Challenge as the average of all votes received is different in each challenge.

My Goal is to increase my percentage. I have not been here long but my chocolate result was my best even though it was not my highest scoring result.

My method is simple as I do not have the a lot of time, I have an idea, I try and capture that idea and use different methods so I can challenge my own skills, I am also learning PS Elements so I tend to experiment here a lot too (love the undo button) and submit the photo that is the result of all of this even if I don't like something about it.

I have often found that I know something is wrong but can't put my finger on it. Its great when someone makes a comment on your photo pointing out a problem and it suddenly becomes obvious to you. Its a method of learning that I use.

In the end the idea is to enjoy, learn and grow. Did I mention enjoy!
:) Bob

Dyslexic

Canon EOS-40D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

08/01/2004 05:50:57 PM · #7

I agree that you should always submit a picture that you like instead of one that you think will score higher. Of course, that's just my opinion. The opinion that this site is all about trying win is equally valid, even though I don't share it.

Statistically speaking, it doesn't matter what the average is. I tend to give lower scores than most people, but I always vote on every submission when I do vote. That way my scoring system affects everyone equally. I also tend to not to get too hung up on whether or not a picture meets the challenge. I'm open to both literal and abstract interpretations, which is more important for fair voting than the scoring system I use.

I've noticed a lot of people set goals for themselves of trying to improve their averages. If you insist on using your score to measure your performance, you should be more concerned with percentile than averages. Percentile puts your score in a context, that is, relative to everyone else's score. Averages are just meaningless numbers without context.

graphicfunk

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

08/01/2004 05:53:32 PM · #8

This is a topic filled with many misconceptions. Let us examine some facts. Many well exposed and well composed images do not even reach the mid mark. This you can easily verify by perusing the challenges. There are many voters that for some reason punish severely shots which to them create an ambiguity in their thinking as it relates to the challenge. And some are not avid readers, so when you try a concept dealing with literature and the arts, you may bomb. A perfect example of this was in the challenge words where a member did a wonderful rendition of Orson Wells 1984. It was well done, I figured it would have ended very high. I would have been proud to make such a submission.

To answer you directly: When photography is practiced as an art, you will discover that the learning curve is never linear and there are no instruments or photo-clubs to measure your improvement. This is an inward strugle of self expression and you may go one way for a while and then perveresly turn on a dime to explore something new to you. The only experience you carry forward is camera technique, whatever that may be. The better your technique, the quicker will you realize success when you experiment with ideas.

When you submit work to DPC, there is no guarantee that it will truly measure your talent unless you have a couple of hundred challenges under your belt. You must remember that when Mozart introduced a set of new quartets, they were dismissed as substandard. So, in your trials and tribulations you will tend to push the envelope in many wrong directions and some in the right directions. Read the comments and you will find that some viewers or members did get your message. This is all you want for now. Do not be affraid that your score will go down, if you are persistent it will eventually crawl back.

Like I said earlier, many a well exposed and well composed shots winds up in the cellar, but do not be guilty of making an entry that is badly exposed or one breaking all laws of composition. If they are so harsh with the former, imagine their reaction to the latter.

The most important thing to keep in mind, is that in DPC you have the chance to enter the realm of the competition. In doing so, you will learn how others solve a similar problem. Look carefully at all the entries and when you see that you have been trumped, let that teach you that you must learn to work with more attention. Perhaps you need inspirational material or more technique, whatever...just decide to get it. Above all, enjoy what you are doing and remember, you do not simply want to record, you want to create. So if you like a mug and decise to phorograph it, ask yourself: How can I really make this interesting. The presentations holds the key.