Thumbnails not visible until you have voted

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

07/26/2004 10:24:10 PM · #51

What if the thumbnails were visible only until you click a "begin voting" button to go to the first fullsize image?

-Terry

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

07/26/2004 10:24:58 PM · #52

Drew, I'd agree that it would take more effort than it's seemingly worth to do the image ID thang. I see no reason we couldn't implement the suggestion, as well as have a "view challenge" page.
Perhaps when we click on the link to the challenge, we are still presented with the same thumbnail page, but must click on a "vote now" link to begin the (random) voting process?

drewmedia

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

07/26/2004 10:25:07 PM · #53

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

What if the thumbnails were visible only until you click a "begin voting" button to go to the first fullsize image?

Good suggestion. That'd keep me happy if the idea were adopted.

ellamay

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

07/26/2004 10:28:29 PM · #54

I like the idea and agree the whole image id thing seems a bit extreme, if someone wants to see them THAT bad, well let em' I say : )

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

07/26/2004 10:53:04 PM · #55

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

What if the thumbnails were visible only until you click a "begin voting" button to go to the first fullsize image?

That's a reasonable compromise, but I still don't think that viewing restrictions are really warranted. I would hope that the incidence of voting from thumbnails is very low, and that those people are either looking out for themselves or voting for a friend/relative. In either case, I doubt that seeing the full image would change the results.

I often vote in batches because a spend a LONG time looking at each image, and tend to leave extensive comments. Very often, I will pick a few images to vote on from thumbnails, but I do vote on all of them eventually and I look at each one at full size. I agree that some thumbnails are more eye-catching than others, but I don't think it influences my voting in any way, and I appreciate the occassional hidden gem. Hiding the thumbnails would just annoy me.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

07/26/2004 11:07:23 PM · #56

Based on previous threads on the subject there are actually quite a few folks who pick & choose from the thumbs. The voting statistics also show that this is quite prevalent; photos that happen to make for attractive thumbs get significantly higher vote totals.
The fact that one can pick & choose totally negates the randomization of the order that images are presented. Though I wish we did not need a change, there is, IMO, ample evidence that a change is required. Note the "IMO".

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

07/27/2004 12:28:01 AM · #57

If you vote on all the images anyway, what purpose does randomization serve? Even if I only saw the photos in a sequence, the fact that I (and many others) usually go back and adjust scores later yields the same situation. Photos that draw attention to themselves will always get higher vote totals (and higher comment totals) as long as 100% voting isn't a requirement.

As noted earlier, I'm not really against the concept, as long as there is some way to view the whole gallery before/without voting. I just have a hard time believing that forcing sequential votes will have a significant impact. I usually vote sequentially anyway since the alternative takes too much back-and-forth clicking.

DefyTime

Canon EOS-7D

07/27/2004 12:42:54 AM · #58

I'm in, hopefully this will bring more good votes my way and not the opposite. I agree with the ability to view the thumbnails but when voting starts it becomes completly random and disables voting from the thumbnails. Hope it works in the right way and we don't get tons of random votes just so they can get to the ones they like.

suemack

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

07/27/2004 01:08:00 AM · #59

Agree - random voting would be great! I'd like the 'look at 'em all' before voting option too, cos for each challenge I go through all the thumbnails, have a look as soon as I get home from work on day 1. I vote over several days through the challenge when there's some free time......am on dial-up ;)

sue

whiteroom

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

07/27/2004 02:40:53 AM · #60

nah, dont like the idea, takes too long over here to open each one,
only if the images were smaller, not fill the whole screen.
i have a dsn line and it still doesnt help.

jcordina

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

07/27/2004 02:50:02 AM · #61

I had suggested this some time ago here. I totally agree with the idea. Just large photos on voting and you can modify the rating only on those you voted. Maybe after voting the required percentage all the thumbnails should become visible, allowing those who wish to stop voting to see all the challenge entries (We already discussed how tiring it is for voting on 300 plus photos)

jcordina

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

07/27/2004 02:58:19 AM · #62

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

This is not about the effort involved to click, but rather about ensuring a random distribusion for the images each voter rates.

-Terry

To ensure this, its not that difficult. Once voter number one starts voting, the system takes the photo list, randomises the list and stores them on the server. Then voter number one gets allocated the first 20%. Anyone who happens to be voter number 2, gets the second 20% and so on until the fifth voter. On the sixth voter, the list is randomised again and the process repeats. This guarantees a random normal distribution.

David.C

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

07/27/2004 03:26:16 AM · #63

As stated in at least one previous thread, I like the idea. However, there is one point that was brought up that I would like some clarification on.

When voting on an image, the voter has the option to skip the image and move on to the next one. No vote is registered, and that image will be displayed again later if it is randomly choosen from those that have not been voted upon. It was stated earlier in the thread that the fate of this option has not been decided. I would like to know what is likely to happen to this option.

I like being able to skip images that hit me in a way that I am just not sure about them (either the subject matter strikes a bit too close to home or something), but by coming back to them later I am better able to fairly vote on them. I would suggest the 'skip' option be left in place, but that only the images voted upon be shown on the thumbnail page as it seems to have been decided. In other words, I would like to keep the skip functionality intact, working the way it does now, and leaving the image in the 'not voted upon' list. This way the benefit of the proposed change is maintained, as well as the functionality that currently exists.

David

frumoaznicul

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

07/27/2004 03:51:10 AM · #64

Originally posted by frisca:

i agree with both the suggestions made here, but ask about the folks on dialup who may feel that each photo loading is time consuming and this method prevents them from looking at the photos in the challenge that interests them.

I'm on dialup and I agree with the suggestion of eliminating thumbs. Even if it takes long time to download and most of the time I don't even get to vote nor see half a challenge, I never care about the tumbnails, I never even look at them. I vote as much as I can whatever comes in line. I belive nobody seriously can make a honest judgeing on such a small thing. I also belive there are people that are not voting a challenge only partial, and are picking from thumbnails what to vote, and that's not a good thing. My experience is that many shots where the thumbnails look promissing dissapoint me when I look at them, and I seen many excellent shots where the thumbnail didn't look so good.

Kavey

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

07/27/2004 05:28:07 AM · #65

Originally posted by drewmedia:

I don't like the idea unless there's still a way to view the challenge entries as a whole. I try to vote when I can, and I only vote when I know I'll be able to vote 20%+, but I always look at the new challenge entries as soon as I can. It's part of what makes the site fun for me. If the no-thumbnail suggestion does take hold, that'll mean having a separate page for viewing the challenge thumbnails at a glance. If that's what it takes, that's what it'll take... but again, I don't want to go to nothing.

This was one of my points - that losing access to that thumbnail page alltogether is punishing those who vote fairly but enjoy seeing the challenge as a whole in that way. Hence I suggested above still having a separate thumbnails page but one where the thumbnails were not links to the fullsize images - so one couldn't vote from that page nor quickly use it to go to the individual images and vote. No cherry picking.

Originally posted by drewmedia:

I also think it's a bit ridiculous to think someone is going to right click to get image IDs and keep a separate window open for voting -- but if you're really that paranoid about it, we'll encrypt the IDs. Again, though, I don't think that's an issue.

Exactly. Again, this is what I expressed above. I just don't think it's an issue. Someone is THAT desperate to vote just on those they have chosen from thumbs (in a new system where thumbs aren't part of the voting pages) that they right click to get the thumb image ID, copy it, open another window with part of a link ready and paste in the image ID to bring up the cherry picked image in full size? I just don't buy it. And if there are people who do this (once we have separated thumbs from voting pages) - are we really talking about more than one or two people?

Message edited by author 2004-07-27 05:31:49.

coolhar

Canon PowerShot Pro 90 IS

07/27/2004 05:40:34 AM · #66

Is it possible to monitor how often voters are using the skip button? Not an individual but all voters combined. If so, perhaps the change to no-thumbs-til-voted-upon could be implemented and see if there is a big change in the use of the skip button. If use goes up significantly then the skip button has to go.

Kavey

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

07/27/2004 05:54:15 AM · #67

Another good point re that skip button made above.

Sometimes I use it when I encounter an image that throws me and I want to come back to it when in a different mood or whatever. I use the skip button then but I always do come back to the image later.

I also find occasions were an image simply doesn't load, even with a CTRL F5 refresh. In those cases I surely shouldn't be entering a vote just to move on to the next image? That's crazy!

frumoaznicul

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

07/27/2004 05:54:28 AM · #68

Originally posted by coolhar:

I think a result of that should be seen in a bigger difference between views and votes.

07/27/2004 06:48:02 AM · #69

Originally posted by goodman:

nah, dont like the idea, takes too long over here to open each one,
only if the images were smaller, not fill the whole screen.
i have a dsn line and it still doesnt help.

Are you saying you rate based on the server-generated thumbnails and not on the full images; that is, you don't look at the full-size image when voting?

If so, please don't do that as it is explicitly against the rules: "Users may adjust their votes directly from this thumbnail-view page only after casting an initial vote for an image -- it is unfair to vote on the quality of a photograph based solely on a server-generated thumbnail of that image."

-Terry

Message edited by author 2004-07-27 06:53:34.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

07/27/2004 06:51:34 AM · #70

Originally posted by jcordina:

The entries are displayed in a different, random order for each user. The problem comes in when users "shop" the thumbnails, choosing to vote on the images whose thumbnails they find interesting. Certain types of images receive a significantly higher vote count than others because of this. This suggestion would prevent that and assure that the images each user rates are selected at random.

-Terry

notonline

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

07/27/2004 07:10:51 AM · #71

here's a brain fart... why not not show score for all non members until they have voted 50% and then only update once a day until they have voted 75-100% of the challenge.

PaulMdx

Canon EOS-1D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

07/27/2004 07:11:56 AM · #72

Originally posted by notonline:

here's a brain fart... why not not show score for all non members until they have voted 50% and then only update once a day until they have voted 75-100% of the challenge.

I think that might encourage speed voting.

suemack

07/27/2004 08:13:00 AM · #73

Originally posted by notonline:

here's a brain fart... why not not show score for all non members until they have voted 50% and then only update once a day until they have voted 75-100% of the challenge.

Would unduly penalize the peops on dial-up.....it can be an almost impossible achievement voting on 75-100% when there are 250-300 images in a challenge. And, I'd hate to see the images made smaller to allow easier, quicker viewing.

sue