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07/16/2004 10:23:04 AM · #26 |
| I don't think private security personnel qualify as "law enforcement" for the purpose of this issue. They do not work for nor are they responsible to the state. But, I believe even police, FBI, etc., are supposed to present proper credentials upon request. |
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07/16/2004 10:24:25 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by LtHousLady:
As they teach the children in school now, "Proper ID" isn't always proper either. Kids are instructed to demand the officer call in another unit. A REAL cop is obligated to do so if you request it...a fake one is incapable of it, then you'll know. |
Good idea ... get a supposedly-credible witness on the scene ASAP. |
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07/16/2004 10:33:48 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by jonr:
Shame, I wanted to visit NY City, just to photograph there, but after 9/11, it has become a fascist state. I guess the terrorist did win after all.
Is Alaska any better? That is on my to-visit list. :)
J. |
I highly doubt that, seeing as how terrorists are planning to target glaciers and igloos for their next attack.[/sarcasm] |
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07/16/2004 11:35:25 AM · #29 |
Yeah!!! And if I go to a dam and start asking questions about structural weak points the man has no right to hassle me! And whose busness is it if I want to learn how to fly a jumbo jet but have no interest in how to land it?
Sorry folks, we are living in a different world now. You may get asked questions when you start taking a lot of pictures of something that most people (non-photog types) see as not that interesting, such as a mall.
I'd much rather they question me, as opposed to letting potential terrorist do all the homework they want without being questioned. |
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07/16/2004 11:45:15 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by awpollard:
Did they look like this... |
That would be them!
They are nicely lit at night too!
Only thing was happened wrong that night, was the security personnel did not come up and ask me what I was doing, thus eliminating the Sheriff's waking us up at 3AM.
But then again, it was pretty funny!
I also had an issue one day when I went intoa Raplh's grocery store. I was trying to find someone to ask how I could gain access to their roof, as it is all skylights. At night, they have a "moon glow" look to them. Once inside, I noticed all the fluorescent lights & their cables, plus the skylights. Strated shooting some interesting angles of them. Then the store manager came over and demanded my "film", as everything in the store is protected and not allowed to be photographed. (Guess that prevents corporate spying).
We both had a chuckle in the end over the whole deal.
If I ever get into a situation where it gets ugly, I can always hand them over my SM card. They would never know there is a CF card in the camera too! (dual card slots) I always have a 512MB CF card & a 128MB SM card in the camera. SM could be "sacrificial"....
Oh brother.
Message edited by author 2004-07-16 11:53:12.
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07/16/2004 11:54:11 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
In case you are not aware, shopping malls are private property, so your right to take pictures can be restricted if you are on mall property. |
Only private in the fact that they aren't owned by the government, thus the people. They are public in that anyone is allowed on the property. They are private in that they can 'permanently' eject someone from the premises. They are public in that they must follow local ordinances, health codes and such; such as laws prohibitting smoking in 'public areas' or businesses.
Malls are both public and private. If they required you to be a member of some 'Mall Club', to which you would pay dues and receive special priveleges; like being allowed to enter the mall, then it would be a completely private property.
If they have clearly marked and posted signage declaring photography to be against their rules. They are entitled to post that and if you wish to be there, you can't take pictures. If they approach you and say, "no photography". That's in their rights to and unless you want to leave, you should follow that request.
If it's not posted and they don't inform you that it is 'forbidden' the most they can do is ask you to leave. There is no law, that I know of, that states that if you break a mall 'rule' that you are violating any Federal, State or Local laws. |
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07/16/2004 12:20:06 PM · #32 |
I`ve been in the habit of taking pics of the local Grangemouth oil refinery where I used to work (BP).
A couple of weeks ago an article appeared in our local paper about someone who stopped their car to take a picture of a rainbow which had appeared behind cooling towers at the refinery. He was approached by security personnel who asked for his name and address.The guy got quite annoyed at this and explained what he was doing but refused to give his personal details, then drove off. He later received a visit from the police who took him in for questioning.He argued about his right to take pictures without having to hand out his personal details and was duly committed to a cell for the evening.Ultimately he was forced to comply and now faces court action for obstructing the law.
There was another case the week after.. where the police turned up at the persons door to find out who they were and why they had been photographing in the vicinity of the refinery.
I suppose it`s understandable in todays climate but it`s certainly put me off taking any more shots from what has been a very productive source in the past.
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07/16/2004 12:24:36 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by louddog:
Yeah!!! And if I go to a dam and start asking questions about structural weak points the man has no right to hassle me! And whose busness is it if I want to learn how to fly a jumbo jet but have no interest in how to land it?
Sorry folks, we are living in a different world now. You may get asked questions when you start taking a lot of pictures of something that most people (non-photog types) see as not that interesting, such as a mall.
I'd much rather they question me, as opposed to letting potential terrorist do all the homework they want without being questioned. |
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It's actually not that different a world, though our American perception of it has changed.
And there's a big difference between the examples you give and taking pictures. Do you really think terrorists would set up tripods and make a public production of taking pictures, when it's so easy to be sneaky? Well, maybe really stupid ones would.
What's really NOT different is law enforcement harassing US citizens because they're brown. Seems to me that is more what this news story is about.
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07/16/2004 12:25:10 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by louddog:
Yeah!!! And if I go to a dam and start asking questions about structural weak points the man has no right to hassle me! And whose busness is it if I want to learn how to fly a jumbo jet but have no interest in how to land it?
Sorry folks, we are living in a different world now. You may get asked questions when you start taking a lot of pictures of something that most people (non-photog types) see as not that interesting, such as a mall.
I'd much rather they question me, as opposed to letting potential terrorist do all the homework they want without being questioned. |
The story of what happened to the gentleman of mixed race in Seattle goes beyond security issues into dangerous civil rights violation territory. This man was clearly profiled because of the color of his skin since there were other people photographing the Locks.
I think author Sherman Alexie put it very well in this interview.
The world is the same place it was on 9/10. The U.S. has changed, but we still live in the same exact world. We are no more threatened than we were before. But it's politically convenient for politicians to make us feel afraid, so it can justify all sorts of economic and political actions.--Sherman Alexie
Another quote from a different article. The context is him explaining to Bill Moyers about his insomniac night time strolls.
In the middle of the night, when you're ambiguously ethnic, like me, when you're brown, beige, mauve, siena, one of those lighter browns in the Crayola box. You have to be careful of the cops and robbers, because nobody's quite sure what you are, but everybody has assumptions.
Last September 16th, I was walking in downtown Seattle when this pick-up truck pulls up in front of me. Guy leans out the window and yells, "Go back to your own country," and I was laughing so hard because it wasn't so much a hate crime as a crime of irony. Sherman Alexie from
NOW with Bill Moyers transcript
I forgot to mention for clarification that Alexie is a Spokane/Coeur d'Alene Indian.
Message edited by author 2004-07-16 12:27:58.
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07/16/2004 12:36:36 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by louddog:
Yeah!!! And if I go to a dam and start asking questions about structural weak points the man has no right to hassle me! And whose busness is it if I want to learn how to fly a jumbo jet but have no interest in how to land it?
Sorry folks, we are living in a different world now. You may get asked questions when you start taking a lot of pictures of something that most people (non-photog types) see as not that interesting, such as a mall.
I'd much rather they question me, as opposed to letting potential terrorist do all the homework they want without being questioned. |
In the case of your first paragraph, I would damn well expect such requests/training to be looked into by the proper authorities at least a little.
We are not living in a 'Different World' this is the same world as before. This nation is slowly approaching Police State status.
If we let that happen, then one day we will find no privacy. We will find every action each and every one of us takes questioned.
How would you enjoy being stopepd and questioned about why you bought Aluminum Foil, 2-Liter Soda Bottles, Carrots, Milk, Hot Dogs, Ice Cream, Butter and "The Works" Drain Cleaner? How would you enjoy being stopped for 45 minutes being questioned about that?
You don't think there is anything wrong with that list? Those items aren't dangerous you say? You are wrong to assume that. Everyone that buys those things has the potential for creating a midly dangerous chemical bomb using just three of items of the list. Because this world is 'Different' now, we should stop everyone that buys those items and question them.
We should stop everyone that buys charcoal and lighter fluid too. Same thing with those dangerous fiends that purchase Fireworks. Model Rocketeers should also be stopped and questioned everyday. All of those things should be suspect activities now. I mean, the world is 'Different' now, right?
Message edited by author 2004-07-16 12:39:32. |
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07/16/2004 12:40:22 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by cmangis:
Originally posted by louddog:
Yeah!!! And if I go to a dam and start asking questions about structural weak points the man has no right to hassle me! And whose busness is it if I want to learn how to fly a jumbo jet but have no interest in how to land it?
Sorry folks, we are living in a different world now. You may get asked questions when you start taking a lot of pictures of something that most people (non-photog types) see as not that interesting, such as a mall.
I'd much rather they question me, as opposed to letting potential terrorist do all the homework they want without being questioned. |
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It's actually not that different a world, though our American perception of it has changed.
And there's a big difference between the examples you give and taking pictures. Do you really think terrorists would set up tripods and make a public production of taking pictures, when it's so easy to be sneaky? Well, maybe really stupid ones would.
What's really NOT different is law enforcement harassing US citizens because they're brown. Seems to me that is more what this news story is about. |
*********
BINGO!!! What this story is really about is profiling and the govt is doing that without question now in the name of the war on terrorism. But almost all of the people they have taken in are innocent and have not a thing to do with terrorism. |
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07/16/2004 12:46:51 PM · #37 |
| I just returned from a day or two in NY city and I can tell you it seems like everyother person is carrying around a camera and taking pics of all sorts of landmarks. The case of this photography student is bias at it's worst. |
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07/16/2004 01:26:27 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by louddog:
Yeah!!! And if I go to a dam and start asking questions about structural weak points the man has no right to hassle me! And whose busness is it if I want to learn how to fly a jumbo jet but have no interest in how to land it?
Sorry folks, we are living in a different world now. You may get asked questions when you start taking a lot of pictures of something that most people (non-photog types) see as not that interesting, such as a mall.
I'd much rather they question me, as opposed to letting potential terrorist do all the homework they want without being questioned. |
The reason that those terrorists attacked highly symbolic targets of our country (money- the twin towers, military-the pentagon, government-the white house or capitol saved by brave citizens) was not to destroy our way of life with a single blow, but in an attempt to get us to destroy ourselves with our reaction to their ongoing acts of terror.
The officer from homeland security has a job to do and he will see it through to the best of his ability. Some how his superiors have determined that a bulky SLR is a better tool to gather information for terrorist attacks than an easily hidden P&S. I think his superiors are wrong.
I as a citizen of these United States have a job to do also, and that is to do my utmost to preserve those rights granted to me by the constitution, from all enemies foreign and domestic, which can sometimes include agents of my own government. If I am willing to surrender my rights, they will not be granted to my childrenâs generation, they will end with mine. I'm not espousing violent opposition, I am espousing the path of Thoreau and King, to stand up to injustice where ever you see it. As a well connected white man who has a lot of lawyer friends, they will not get me to give them more than the law allows them to have. If they arrest me for not bending to illegal demands, the resulting lawsuit would be very entertaining.
Benjamin Franklin said âAny man who was willing to trade his freedom for security deserved neither.â Those founding fathers were smart guys.
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07/16/2004 02:09:22 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by cmangis:
Do you really think terrorists would set up tripods and make a public production of taking pictures, when it's so easy to be sneaky? Well, maybe really stupid ones would. |
Wouldn't that be the perfect disguise? Would you have really thought students in flight school would hijack a plane and crash it?
Not all terrorist have signs on their forehead. |
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07/16/2004 02:14:43 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by cmangis:
What's really NOT different is law enforcement harassing US citizens because they're brown. Seems to me that is more what this news story is about. |
If 10 white guys in China blew up a building all white guys would be suspects. If a few prison guards abuse prioners they are all suspect. If a few priest molest young boys they are all suspect. It's the way it is. Maybe it sucks, but that's life.
Also, is asking a few questions and asking for an ID harassing??? It didn't get ugly until he refused to cooperate. And contrary to what he wrote, he was never detained. Had he attempted to walk away he might have been, but he never was detained.
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07/16/2004 02:18:27 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by melismatica:
The story of what happened to the gentleman of mixed race in Seattle goes beyond security issues into dangerous civil rights violation territory. This man was clearly profiled because of the color of his skin since there were other people photographing the Locks. |
I've been picked up by police twice because I matched the profile of a suspect. Once for murder, and once for assult. I cooperated and everything ended fine. Had I not cooperated I'm sure things would have gotton ugly.
Have my civil rights been violated? How dare the police pick me up and accuse me of something just because I match a description!!! And by the way, both times I was really detained. |
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07/16/2004 02:29:36 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by louddog:
Originally posted by cmangis:
Do you really think terrorists would set up tripods and make a public production of taking pictures, when it's so easy to be sneaky? Well, maybe really stupid ones would. |
Wouldn't that be the perfect disguise? Would you have really thought students in flight school would hijack a plane and crash it?
Not all terrorist have signs on their forehead. |
Actually, that would be one of the most moronic diquises to use. People with Tripods and High-End Photographic equipment always draw more attention then those that carry P&S cameras.
On a recent trip to a zoo, I had zoo volunteers help me locate birds to photograph without me even asking for assistance. One little old lady approached me at least 5 tiems and even 'dragged' me back into the aviary just to get a few shots of some birds that I might have missed.
While in the butterfly exhibit, there were two guys with P&S digital cameras and their families that took special notice of me and my gear. I caught one guy glancing my way with 'Camera Envy' more then once. If asked anything, I would have quickly answered everything that I could.
If you were a terrorist and wanted to get pictures of places for your evil plans, you wouldn't make yourself stick out like a sore thumb. You wouldn't want to make yourself memorable. You wouldn't want to make yourself look like someone that people would want to walk up and talk to, especially people that are enthusiasts about what you are attempting to pass as, since those people will figure out you don't know jack and take an even greater interest in you then you could imagine.
If you were a terrorist, you would get a point and shoot, act like a tourist, quickly snap a few images and quickly be on your way. The shorter the time you spend in one place, the better, since that greatly reduces the risk of being caught.
Any 'one' that has read a spy novel, watched a James Bond film or played hide and go seek as a child should know that. |
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07/16/2004 02:30:35 PM · #43 |
A police officer or a security guard asking questions and asking for ID is not that big of a deal. Cooperate and walk away while continuing to enjoy your freedom.
If you have an example of the police harrasing someone because of their shopping list, please share it with us so we can be outraged together.
If you have an example of a freedom that you lost, please share it(other then bringing nail clipers on to an airplane).
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07/16/2004 02:43:01 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by Nelzie:
Originally posted by louddog:
Originally posted by cmangis:
Do you really think terrorists would set up tripods and make a public production of taking pictures, when it's so easy to be sneaky? Well, maybe really stupid ones would. |
Wouldn't that be the perfect disguise? Would you have really thought students in flight school would hijack a plane and crash it?
Not all terrorist have signs on their forehead. |
Actually, that would be one of the most moronic diquises to use. People with Tripods and High-End Photographic equipment always draw more attention then those that carry P&S cameras.
On a recent trip to a zoo, I had zoo volunteers help me locate birds to photograph without me even asking for assistance. One little old lady approached me at least 5 tiems and even 'dragged' me back into the aviary just to get a few shots of some birds that I might have missed.
While in the butterfly exhibit, there were two guys with P&S digital cameras and their families that took special notice of me and my gear. I caught one guy glancing my way with 'Camera Envy' more then once. If asked anything, I would have quickly answered everything that I could.
If you were a terrorist and wanted to get pictures of places for your evil plans, you wouldn't make yourself stick out like a sore thumb. You wouldn't want to make yourself memorable. You wouldn't want to make yourself look like someone that people would want to walk up and talk to, especially people that are enthusiasts about what you are attempting to pass as, since those people will figure out you don't know jack and take an even greater interest in you then you could imagine.
If you were a terrorist, you would get a point and shoot, act like a tourist, quickly snap a few images and quickly be on your way. The shorter the time you spend in one place, the better, since that greatly reduces the risk of being caught.
Any 'one' that has read a spy novel, watched a James Bond film or played hide and go seek as a child should know that. |
I'm really glad you don't work for homeland security. I'm sure a good terrorist could mastermind an attack that will do maximum damage based on a few quickly taken snap shots. No need to monitor traffic paterns no need for detailed analysis of the structures... You are so right. Why would a terrorist want to sit out with a tripod to photograph and monitor an area all day under the disguise of a photo student... What a stupid idea. The FBI should just put out a memo that says ignore anyone with a tripod because per "spy novel" and "james bond" thinking a good terrorist wouldn't carry one. |
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07/16/2004 02:46:16 PM · #45 |
"Cooperate and continue to enjoy your freedom"? Looks like we read different articles. The homeland Security officer said that it was illegal to photgraph federal property. He is in short, making up the law to suit his needs. The courts have set limits as to when it is proper for an officer to force someone to produce ID. There must be evidence of or reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. I saw none here. Again officers are paid to enforce the law, not make it up.
The joke here is that while I may not be allowed to photograph a building I can go down to the building inspection department and pull up the plans of any building that has been issued a permit.
It's a bit like the fact that finger nail clippers are no longer allowed onto airflights, but I could carry on a ceramic pig sticker or a bottle of sarin.
We always seem to be fighting the last war. How about a tiny bit of common sense?
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07/16/2004 02:50:55 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by louddog:
Originally posted by Nelzie:
Originally posted by louddog:
Originally posted by cmangis:
Do you really think terrorists would set up tripods and make a public production of taking pictures, when it's so easy to be sneaky? Well, maybe really stupid ones would. |
Wouldn't that be the perfect disguise? Would you have really thought students in flight school would hijack a plane and crash it?
Not all terrorist have signs on their forehead. |
Actually, that would be one of the most moronic diquises to use. People with Tripods and High-End Photographic equipment always draw more attention then those that carry P&S cameras.
On a recent trip to a zoo, I had zoo volunteers help me locate birds to photograph without me even asking for assistance. One little old lady approached me at least 5 tiems and even 'dragged' me back into the aviary just to get a few shots of some birds that I might have missed.
While in the butterfly exhibit, there were two guys with P&S digital cameras and their families that took special notice of me and my gear. I caught one guy glancing my way with 'Camera Envy' more then once. If asked anything, I would have quickly answered everything that I could.
If you were a terrorist and wanted to get pictures of places for your evil plans, you wouldn't make yourself stick out like a sore thumb. You wouldn't want to make yourself memorable. You wouldn't want to make yourself look like someone that people would want to walk up and talk to, especially people that are enthusiasts about what you are attempting to pass as, since those people will figure out you don't know jack and take an even greater interest in you then you could imagine.
If you were a terrorist, you would get a point and shoot, act like a tourist, quickly snap a few images and quickly be on your way. The shorter the time you spend in one place, the better, since that greatly reduces the risk of being caught.
Any 'one' that has read a spy novel, watched a James Bond film or played hide and go seek as a child should know that. |
I'm really glad you don't work for homeland security. I'm sure a good terrorist could mastermind an attack that will do maximum damage based on a few quickly taken snap shots. No need to monitor traffic paterns no need for detailed analysis of the structures... You are so right. Why would a terrorist want to sit out with a tripod to photograph and monitor an area all day under the disguise of a photo student... What a stupid idea. The FBI should just put out a memo that says ignore anyone with a tripod because per "spy novel" and "james bond" thinking a good terrorist wouldn't carry one. |
******
So then why didn't the authorities detain all of the other people that were at this location that the photo student was at and id them and interrogate them? |
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07/16/2004 02:54:04 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by louddog:
A police officer or a security guard asking questions and asking for ID is not that big of a deal. Cooperate and walk away while continuing to enjoy your freedom.
If you have an example of the police harrasing someone because of their shopping list, please share it with us so we can be outraged together.
If you have an example of a freedom that you lost, please share it(other then bringing nail clipers on to an airplane). |
I asked how you would enjoy being harrassed for such a shopping list. That is the sort of thing that happens in Police States, which this nation is approaching with acts such as The PATRIOT Act. That was a rhetorical situation and something that could very well happen if we, the people, don't defend our civil rights.
We have lost the freedom to setup and take images of non-secret government buildings, such as Post Offices, etc., bridges and other high traffice monuments without being harrassed by either Police, Federal Agents, Security Personal or 'Concerned' Citizens.
Prior to 9/11 and The PATRIOT Act, the police had to have a reasonable suspicion prior to stopping anyone for questioning. Which means you, I or anyone could have taken pictures of virtually anyplace without being approached by anyone.
In August of 2001, you could have setup your camera and tripod across from City Hall, the Police Station and taken pictures and *MAYBE* someone would have asked what you were doing (Out of curiousity) and left it at that.
In October of 2001, if you went back to do the same thing you would have been almost guaranteed to have been approached by Police or other government agents and stopped, asked not only for your ID, but a number of extremely accusatory questions.
That's a freedom that is lost. They don't just ask you for your ID, they ask you everything they can think of. They intimidate you in order to provide 'reasonable suspicion' (because you look 'scared') to search you or bring you in for further questioning.
Why don't you go to your local big city police station, one that looks half-way pretty and setup across the street and see what happens. Bring a few friends, especially any that are slightly brown colored. I would love to hear about what happens. |
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07/16/2004 02:57:12 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by louddog:
Originally posted by melismatica:
The story of what happened to the gentleman of mixed race in Seattle goes beyond security issues into dangerous civil rights violation territory. This man was clearly profiled because of the color of his skin since there were other people photographing the Locks. |
I've been picked up by police twice because I matched the profile of a suspect. Once for murder, and once for assult. I cooperated and everything ended fine. Had I not cooperated I'm sure things would have gotton ugly.
Have my civil rights been violated? How dare the police pick me up and accuse me of something just because I match a description!!! And by the way, both times I was really detained. |
I'll take your word that this you speak the truth, but in your case, you were not racially profiled. It is not okay for police or a security guards to question a person simply because of the color of their skin. There were other people documenting the Locks at the time this gentleman was being questioned, yet no one was else was being questioned or photographed by federal agents.
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07/16/2004 02:57:31 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by louddog:
If you have an example of the police harrasing someone because of their shopping list, please share it with us so we can be outraged together. |
How about what books they took out of the library?
According to the USA Patriot Act, this is allowed. And we wouldn't have heard about it, because it is a federal crime to tell anyone if the government DOES go looking.
How about these examples of "good deeds" perpetrated by our government under this act?(1)
⢠8,000 Arab and South Asian immigrants have been interrogated because of their religion or ethnic background, not because of actual wrongdoing.
⢠Thousands of men, mostly of Arab and South Asian origin, have been held in secretive federal custody for weeks and months, sometimes without any charges filed against them. The government has refused to publish their names and whereabouts, even when ordered to do so by the courts.
⢠The press and the public have been barred from immigration court hearings of those detained after September 11th and the courts are ordered to keep secret even that the hearings are taking place.
⢠The government is allowed to monitor communications between federal detainees and their lawyers, destroying the attorneyclient privilege and threatening the right to counsel.
⢠New Attorney General Guidelines allow FBI spying on religious and political organizations and individuals without having evidence of wrongdoing.
⢠President Bush has ordered military commissions to be set up to try suspected terrorists who are not citizens. They can convict based on hearsay and secret evidence by only two-thirds vote.
⢠American citizens suspected of terrorism are being held indefinitely in military custody without being charged and without access to lawyers.
So, chances are, you could be monitored, examined, tracked and you wouldn't even know it.
How's that for rights being violated?
(1) ACLU flyer: "The USA PATRIOT ACT and Government Actions that Threaten Our Civil Liberties" |
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07/16/2004 03:03:59 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by louddog:
I'm really glad you don't work for homeland security. I'm sure a good terrorist could mastermind an attack that will do maximum damage based on a few quickly taken snap shots. No need to monitor traffic paterns no need for detailed analysis of the structures... You are so right. Why would a terrorist want to sit out with a tripod to photograph and monitor an area all day under the disguise of a photo student... What a stupid idea. The FBI should just put out a memo that says ignore anyone with a tripod because per "spy novel" and "james bond" thinking a good terrorist wouldn't carry one. |
You still don't get it?
While Agent "What's his Name" was harrassing the guy that stood out for having a camera and tripod, there was a person sitting their ALL day painting with an Eazel, who apparently wasn't harrased. That person could have been noting traffic patterns and yadda-yadda.
Besides there are dozens of effective ways to 'monitor' an area without sticking out or sitting in one place all day long.
You want a traffic analysis?
If you have a team of people that's pretty easy. Rent a few seperate cars and drive through an area, several times a day. Heck all you have to do is live in an area for 6 months and you will learn the traffic patterns just by being there long enough. (Remember the terrorists of 9/11 had been in the US in some cases nearly to more then 2 years.)
How do 'quick shots' with a P&S add together to show off 'weak points' in a building/bridge?
Go back often, dressed differently, but still looking like a tourist. Send your 'buddies' there as well and take different shots each trip. Stagger your trips and nobody will be the wiser. (If you recall, the terrorist plot of 9/11 wasn't planned over the course of two weeks, but over the course of SEVERAL years.)
Is there anything else you want to add? Keep in mind that terrorists can and will take years to complete their tasks. As another posted related, you could easily obtain the plans to buildings and other structures all over the place by hitting city halls across America. |
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