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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Comments have to be "positive" to be "helpful" ??
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 06/30/2004 12:22:35 AM · #1
Here's what I don't get. You take the time to leave comments, and then, when I look at the results of a challenge, I find more than a few photographers who only mark a comment helpful if it was positive, and/or stroked the photographer. Maybe it's just me, but it's rubbing me the wrong way tonight. Is it just me?
06/30/2004 12:27:14 AM · #2
Well I suppose some folks don't think having their "vision" questioned is very helpful - Maybe it upsets their precarious sense of self worth?

Who knows!

I marked all my comments as helpful because at least someone took the time out of their life (which is pretty damn precious in my opinion) to say something about my work.
 06/30/2004 12:27:40 AM · #3
Yup, that really annoys me. Depending on the photo, I will generally mark anything as helpful that tells me something other than "I like it" or something like that. Sometimes I just mark them all as helpful though.
 06/30/2004 12:33:27 AM · #4
And here's my pet peeve about comments (there has been several threads on this.)

My "helpful rate" on CRITIQUE CLUB comments after the challenge has closed is TERRIBLE. I personally believe (HOPE SO) that it a a design problem and that many of the folks don't even know I have posted comments.

I'd really like to see a way that the receiver could actually mark "helpful" or "not helpful" or at least an indicator that the comment was VIEWED by the photographer. If they viewed it and didn't mark it helpful, theat would either tell you the critique/comment was no good or that they are lazy.
 06/30/2004 12:41:02 AM · #5
Originally posted by photom:
And here's my pet peeve about comments (there has been several threads on this.)

My "helpful rate" on CRITIQUE CLUB comments after the challenge has closed is TERRIBLE. I personally believe (HOPE SO) that it a a design problem and that many of the folks don't even know I have posted comments.

I'd really like to see a way that the receiver could actually mark "helpful" or "not helpful" or at least an indicator that the comment was VIEWED by the photographer. If they viewed it and didn't mark it helpful, theat would either tell you the critique/comment was no good or that they are lazy.


It's true that once a challenge ends, many users (myself included) don't go back much, if at all, to check comments. If you're critique clubbing, I'd highly recommend dropping a quick PM to the photog whenever you finish a critique to ensure that they know it's there for the reading.
 06/30/2004 12:47:20 AM · #6
Originally posted by photom:
I'd really like to see a way that the receiver could actually mark "helpful" or "not helpful"


Yes! I agree with this. I was just saying this yesterday.

I, for one, don't think that a comment has to be positive to be marked as helpful, but if someone is going to take the time to leave a comment, it would be nice for them to have something constructive to say instead of just a 'cute' or 'I like it', etc. Say you don't like the lighting, or the background or what doesn't work for you - or - what DOES work for you! What did you like about it? Give me something to work with.

This is my first challenge, and I've gotten some great comments, but I have a hard time marking a comment 'helpful' if they didn't have anything constructive to say, whether positive or negative.

BUT - I do appreciate them taking the time to say anything, so I've just been marking everything as 'helpful'. Actually, I've wavered back and forth on this and have checked and unchecked the 'not helpful' comments off and on about ten times since the start of the competition.
 06/30/2004 12:49:41 AM · #7
Both postive and negative comments are helpful. Not every picture is perfect so any help in improving a shot is helpful.

Sometimes people don't even mark them helpful. I sometimes wish that there was a button for those people so I don't even have to give them one. Instead I can concentrate on the people that want an honest opinion, good or bad.
 06/30/2004 12:52:27 AM · #8
Originally posted by faidoi:
Both postive and negative comments are helpful. Not every picture is perfect so any help in improving a shot is helpful.

Sometimes people don't even mark them helpful. I sometimes wish that there was a button for those people so I don't even have to give them one ...

Even those comments are helpful ... to you, in the writing, regardless of whether or not it's ever read by the photographer.
 06/30/2004 01:01:15 AM · #9
I think I learn more BY leaving comments. It is MY lerning process. I get to look at all the purdy picturs and then remark on what I think works or doesn't work. I then can incorporate that into my shots when I take them. For example..portraits. Soft focus works well with alot, but it is always good to have the eyes sharp. Makes me DO that when I shoot.
 06/30/2004 01:25:22 AM · #10
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
I think I learn more BY leaving comments. It is MY lerning process. I get to look at all the purdy picturs and then remark on what I think works or doesn't work. I then can incorporate that into my shots when I take them. For example..portraits. Soft focus works well with alot, but it is always good to have the eyes sharp. Makes me DO that when I shoot.


Same here...I would hope to help others, but I gain as well by leaving comments.

If you have gotten one of my comments, it will always have a "I might have..." or "I would have..." which means I actually studied the picture. I try to feel what the photographer is trying to convey then recompose the shot as I might have shot it. Whether or not the subject matter was appealing I will try to recompose the shot in my head.

This helps me to appreciate subjects that do not really move me. Other times it helps me to define what it is that I actually like and how to improve my own shots.

I'm am still having a problem deciding to comment or not on some shots that IMO just flat out shouldn't be in any challenge type environment or if the person really tried and is in dire need of help. If I knew that the effort was being put in I would gladly offer my opinion.

ED: Omited word.

Message edited by author 2004-06-30 01:26:29.
 06/30/2004 01:31:11 AM · #11
I appreciate what awpollard just wrote. Let me add something to that. When you come across a really awful picture, does it run through your mind that this might be the first submission by a real newbie and if you list all the things wrong with the picture, you'll crush their initial enthusiasm, but, on the other hand, it might be a smart-aleck entry from someone who's trying to win the brown ribbon for one reason or another?

It's tough sometimes trying to decide who you're writing the comment for. When I comment on a picture that, in my mind, deserves a 1, it's tricky. I like awpollard's system of putting "I might have..." in the comment and I'm going to try that.
06/30/2004 01:53:29 AM · #12
Originally posted by boomer:
When you come across a really awful picture, does it run through your mind that this might be the first submission by a real newbie and if you list all the things wrong with the picture, you'll crush their initial enthusiasm, but, on the other hand, it might be a smart-aleck entry from someone who's trying to win the brown ribbon for one reason or another?


This is why I've decided NOT to comment on pics that are 1's, 2's, nor will I comment on 9's or 10's. Most of the time, these pics we can see what is wrong or good on them without having to leave the ubiquitous comment: out of focus, too small, etc... or the great photo, wow, etc... Instead I'm trying to comment on the pics that I am voting 4 or 5. These are pictures that people have put reasonable time and effort into, and they are the ones that can use a couple of small pointers (not that I'm an expert) to help raise them up. I mean the majority of us here get the 4's and 5's, and wouldn't we like to receive some comments and help on our photos to get them up into the 6's? Or do we just comment on the 1's, 2's, 9's and 10's because there are fewer of them and we feel better by saying we commented on 'all' of a single rating. Who's with me?? Who's going to comment on the middle ground?
06/30/2004 02:00:36 AM · #13
Both positive and negative shots can be helpful, and also unhelpful. Just because someone leaves a comment that they believe will 'improve' a shot it does not necessarily be what the photographer had in mind and therefore not very helpful. There are also comments such as 'I like the X' that can tell the photographer that an element stood out enough for someone to like and therefore if that was an intention then it succeeded.

I do think that some people only mark the positive comments, but a lot of people dont mark any so in the end they're not really worth much, and certainly not something to base your worth on.
 06/30/2004 09:19:58 AM · #14
It bothers me a little if someone doesn't mark my comment as helpful, especially when I see others that are marked helpful saying the same thing as mine in a more "sugar-coated" way. But what really makes me mad are the photographers who, challenge after challenge, never find anything helpful in anyone's comments. Makes me wonder if they even care enough to read what other people have to say about their photo. If they mark some as helpful but not yours, at least you know they have read them.
 06/30/2004 09:25:46 AM · #15
I mark most comments helpful, that is if they are on the photo involved not the Title, positive or negative...

I´ve learned a great deal from comments that offer something to improve my work, and I dont like to call that kind of comments negative at all.
 06/30/2004 06:29:42 PM · #16
I mark all comments as helpful. If somebody took the time to comment I appreciate it. However, my favorites are the ones that offer a suggestion for improvement, preferably couched in respectful language. Ann
 06/30/2004 06:33:12 PM · #17
Originally posted by photom:
And here's my pet peeve about comments (there has been several threads on this.)

My "helpful rate" on CRITIQUE CLUB comments after the challenge has closed is TERRIBLE. I personally believe (HOPE SO) that it a a design problem and that many of the folks don't even know I have posted comments.

I'd really like to see a way that the receiver could actually mark "helpful" or "not helpful" or at least an indicator that the comment was VIEWED by the photographer. If they viewed it and didn't mark it helpful, theat would either tell you the critique/comment was no good or that they are lazy.
I got a "Critque Club" comment the other day and would never have known it was there if the commenter hadn't sent me a private message to let me know he commented on my picture. It was very useful too. So a quick message to the received is a good idea. Ann
 06/30/2004 07:03:28 PM · #18
I don't think you should feel obliged to mark comments helpful if they're not. "Nice" is nice, but not helpful, and ""What??" is not nice, and equally unhelpful.

I only mark a comment helpful if it offers me something I can work with (either for the shot in question or in the future), regardless of whether it's good or bad.

So "I love the way you framed the shot here" is helpful, and "I can't see the image clearly enough, work on your focus and DOF" is also helpful.

__
I think what the term should be is "if a comment is not *constructive*, it's not helpful"

Message edited by author 2004-06-30 19:04:35.
 06/30/2004 07:21:28 PM · #19
Originally posted by coolhar:
Makes me wonder if they even care enough to read what other people have to say about their photo. If they mark some as helpful but not yours, at least you know they have read them.

Well put! There are few 'big names' I could mention who seem to be quite self-centred in this department...
 06/30/2004 07:52:02 PM · #20
I try to keep my "helpful comment rate" at about 66%. I figure for all the various reasons listed here, I'll make myself crazy if I worry about comments that don't get marked helpful.

Though I try hard, what is obvious to a neutral observer of my photos is rarely obvious to me. I assume lots of others are the same, so not leaving comments on the 1s, 2s, and 3s seems counter productive to me, as those are the shots that need the most well meaning help.

For the Critique club members: keep up the good work. Many people don't realize they can scan their comments received pretty easily just by clicking the link. Once I learned that, I found myself going back over old photos more and more. So thanks to the CC.
 06/30/2004 08:45:42 PM · #21
I mark all as helpful.Its better than not getting any!
 06/30/2004 09:04:34 PM · #22
*sighs* I have 5 comments on my "Extraordinary" shot and all of them say something about the content of the photo, but nothing about the actual photo... And no, none are marked as helpful. -_-
 07/03/2004 08:48:08 PM · #23
Some of the critical comments I've recieved have been the most helpful.
!!!!!!!!!!

Another perspective always helps.
 07/09/2004 11:38:03 AM · #24
I'm not sure how to take a comment if it is wrong. For instance, the comment was "oversharpened" but I didn't sharpen the picture at all. Or the color did not meet the challenge, but on my monitor(s) it did. In otherwords, I think the commenters' monitors are different than the ones I use, so what they saw was different than the picture.
I did not find the commments negative, but can't mark them as helpful, either.

About commenting - I'm new to the forum and I am learning, so don't feel comfortable commenting all of the time - if I have something to add sometime, I will. I prefer to avoid the "cute" and other nebulous comments and don't want to comment for comment sake. Or should I, is this helpful? I also didn't know that comments were a usual thing and - apparently, based on this discussion - something that peopl really used or thought were worth reading / doing.

And, no comment has to be "negative" even though it points out areas for improvement or ways to get the desired effect - or even the commenters opinion about the photo. The comment doesn't have to worded in a negative way, nor does the reader need to take it in a negative way. We don't know how much time or effort was put into the picture - perhaps it was a "there at the right time" photo, perhaps it one that took hours to shoot and days to manipulate. If it is posted, you are in effect, putting to the public, and in this forum asking for comments. But we can play nice.

I would appreciate critical comments on my photos.
 07/09/2004 01:27:59 PM · #25
off course comments should be helpful, help you improve or onderstand what you did well and what not. But I also find a compliment or a witty remark about the picture nice to read. It is satisfying if people take time to remark on your picture, is shows they have put some time in viewing it and thinking about it. So i disagree with people who say that all the "nice", "cute", "love it" comments are useless.
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