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 06/24/2004 02:19:01 PM · #1
I am getting alot of "what is this a picture of, I can't make it out" comments, but the picture on my screen is quite clear. Is there a setting that varies that much on people's monitors that an image would be unrecognizable on one and clear on another? Even at different monitor resolutions I can still clearly see the image. The comments indicate that they can't even figure out what the picture is of due to the quality, but it varies from person to person, and some can see it fine. Help?
 06/24/2004 02:23:00 PM · #2
I don't think we can really get a good answer until the challenge is over, unfortunately. We'd have to know which picture, and that would defeat the purpose! All I have personally noticed is that my monitor at work is darker and gives a gray overcast to everything. No other monitor I use is like this. I was horrified when I saw one of my pictures on this monitor the first time!
 06/24/2004 02:32:16 PM · #3
Summer, Just looked at your profile - and your Choices picture looked fine on my monitor. I've voted on all of the Newspaper Challenge and there were no pictures that I couldn't tell what they were.

Monitors do differ a lot. I've had comments that colors are too bright and then comments that colors are too dull. If I can, I try to check what my pictures look like on my husband's monitor at work and on my daughter in law's computer to see if they look the same as on mine.
 06/24/2004 02:36:48 PM · #4
Could it be that since you know what it is, it looks clear to you, while someone else may not be able to tell what it is just by looking at it?
 06/24/2004 02:42:55 PM · #5
I had some difficulty with this on my choices entry. I intentially shot the image in low morning light to mute the colors a bit and got several comments that the picture was "too dark." I guess it's possible some just don't consider the meaning of the low light before making criticisms, but I think it's likely that some people just have their monitors turned too low. The photo definitely wasn't too dark on the three computers I viewed it on.



I understand your frustration. :( I guess darker, muted photos just don't work very well online -- too much variation in what the viewer sees.
 06/24/2004 02:46:46 PM · #6
A couple of things you can do, first check the histogram of your photo. I see a lot of photos that donĂ¢€™t use the top end of the range of pixel values, making the photo dark. On a good monitor you can still see the photo and it might in fact look pretty good but on a monitor that is not set right they can lose the lower levels and so the image more or less disappears. Another useful thing to do is check out what your image looks like if you use the level controls and slide the black level slider up a bit, say to a value of 50 or so. This will show you what you image might look like on a monitor that is not calibrated correctly.

It will be a lot easy to address this once the challenge is over and you can share your photo with us.
06/24/2004 02:49:10 PM · #7
Originally posted by turquoise919:
I had some difficulty with this on my choices entry. I intentially shot the image in low morning light to mute the colors a bit and got several comments that the picture was "too dark." I guess it's possible some just don't consider the meaning of the low light before making criticisms, but I think it's likely that some people just have their monitors turned too low. The photo definitely wasn't too dark on the three computers I viewed it on.



I understand your frustration. :( I guess darker, muted photos just don't work very well online -- too much variation in what the viewer sees.

It looks fine, but at the bottom, where the darker shirt hangs over the edge is a bit dark. Not so dark to lose detail, but darker than the rest of the composition. If the darker shirt had been the middle one, I do not think it would have mattered as the lighter shirts whould have given it better contrast.

David
 06/24/2004 02:55:07 PM · #8
Originally posted by airatic:
I am getting alot of "what is this a picture of, I can't make it out" comments, but the picture on my screen is quite clear. Is there a setting that varies that much on people's monitors that an image would be unrecognizable on one and clear on another? Even at different monitor resolutions I can still clearly see the image. The comments indicate that they can't even figure out what the picture is of due to the quality, but it varies from person to person, and some can see it fine. Help?

Not picking on them, but I wonder if they were Mac users. The Mac's 1.8 gamma makes images prepared on a PC (with their 2.5 gamma) look quite a bit darker. 2.2 gamma has been settled on as a good compromise between the two, and the PC monitors are starting to be calibrated to that instead of the 2.5 gamma but Macs are still at the same 1.8 gamma.

David
 06/24/2004 02:58:34 PM · #9
Originally posted by turquoise919:
I had some difficulty with this on my choices entry. I intentially shot the image in low morning light to mute the colors a bit and got several comments that the picture was "too dark." I guess it's possible some just don't consider the meaning of the low light before making criticisms, but I think it's likely that some people just have their monitors turned too low. The photo definitely wasn't too dark on the three computers I viewed it on.



I understand your frustration. :( I guess darker, muted photos just don't work very well online -- too much variation in what the viewer sees.


This is a great example, on my monitor everything is very clear, however much of the detail in this image is in the lower pixel values and as a result if viewed on a monitor where the black level is not set right the detail will disappear. Looking at the histogram of this image there is a bit of room at the top end i.e. it could be brightened without blowing out the highlights. The choice is then to give up some of the mood the darker photo is going for in exchange for a photo that is more forgiving on a range of monitors or going with the lower levels knowing that some will score it low due to faults in their monitors.

For myself I always make sure my photo is using the full range of values, but this is a personal choice.

06/24/2004 02:59:07 PM · #10
"Not picking on them, but I wonder if they were Mac users. The Mac's 1.8 gamma makes images prepared on a PC (with their 2.5 gamma) look quite a bit darker. 2.2 gamma has been settled on as a good compromise between the two, and the PC monitors are starting to be calibrated to that instead of the 2.5 gamma but Macs are still at the same 1.8 gamma."

David [/quote]

I would have to agree with this. All of the imaging work I do is on a Mac. Then a I submit the images and view it the rest of the time on PC's. There is quite a difference in the two. Sometimes I have to resubmit images two or three times until I get the image to look decent on both computers.

Message edited by author 2004-06-24 14:59:29.
 06/24/2004 03:10:13 PM · #11
Originally posted by scottwilson:

This is a great example, on my monitor everything is very clear, however much of the detail in this image is in the lower pixel values and as a result if viewed on a monitor where the black level is not set right the detail will disappear. Looking at the histogram of this image there is a bit of room at the top end i.e. it could be brightened without blowing out the highlights. The choice is then to give up some of the mood the darker photo is going for in exchange for a photo that is more forgiving on a range of monitors or going with the lower levels knowing that some will score it low due to faults in their monitors.

For myself I always make sure my photo is using the full range of values, but this is a personal choice.


Thanks for the tips here. :) I still have a lot to learn on the photoshop end of digital photography.
 06/24/2004 04:17:04 PM · #12
Yeah, these tips should help me customize my entries so everyone can enjoy (or berate) them on equal footing. It will be interesting to see what happens when I start working on a Mac myself... :)

Context: I am forced to use a PC due to work, but I am in the process of obtaining my dream computer for other uses (PowerMac G5 dual 2.5 GHz, 8 GB etc etc etc)
 06/24/2004 05:04:06 PM · #13
Summer, I just PMed you back. I think probably for most everyone the issue with the quality was the size. Use the 640 maxium pixels to your advantage, that way people on smaller resolutions as well as large can view your picture easily. I'm viewing at 1024x728 and it looks really small to me. I was viewing at 800x600 up until a few days ago and I even switched back to that for a minute to check your photo, it's still small.

*hugs*
It's NOT a bad photo, but it's just not it's best currently.

Congrats on getting the new computer (whenever you do)! I've been in the mode of "Macs are evil" for quite awhile, but now that I've been doing lots of graphics work, I've been wondering if that might not be a better direction for me to go. *shrugs* We'll see.

Message edited by author 2004-06-24 17:04:50.
 06/24/2004 05:12:31 PM · #14
I know that the moniter you use makes a huge differance in the look of a picture. My friend has his computer set up next to mine and when he viewed my pics, they looked 10x better than on mine. So now I just adjust the color and contrast to all my pics until they look good on mine and I know they will look great to anyone that has a better moniter than mine.

Message edited by author 2004-06-24 17:20:02.
 06/24/2004 06:18:05 PM · #15
Originally posted by Ami Yuy:
I've been in the mode of "Macs are evil" for quite awhile...


**cough-choke-gasp-cough-cough** Geez, Ami, warn me before you say something like that! I have never seen that phrase reversed before. Summer, see if you can find a 2-for-1 sale so you might help this poor, misguided soul. ;-)
 06/24/2004 06:26:07 PM · #16
I have sometimes in the past thought about trying a Mac, but pricing and lack of affordable upgrades, software, etc. puts me off.
At the present time I know of NOTHING a Mac can accomplish that cannot be done as well on a PC....at lower cost.
 06/24/2004 06:34:02 PM · #17
Lol, well, I have no idea how it started, but somewhere along in Junior High I was told that Macs were evil and it's just gone downhill since.

My grandmother has a Mac and I ABSOLUTELY hate her computer, confusing to use and the mouse...well give me my two buttons because next time you lose my work I will destroy you! My friend's family got a Mac (heaven know's why, they don't need it) and it's been nothing but trouble for them. Shuts down wrong constantly, loses their work, none of the files are compatible with other computers...

But as Gordon said, they can do everything a PC can, to my knowledge, if better in some areas, oh well, I will stick with what I know and like. ^_^
 06/24/2004 06:45:03 PM · #18
Hi Air,
It certainly could be a monitor issue. If you are creating your work on a mac as I am, it could be too dark on a PC monitor, especially if the PC has an old funky monitor like the one on my computer at work. Images I create at home that look like dynamite on my mac at home look muddy and hard to make out on my PC at work. This may be what is happening to you.
Ann
 06/24/2004 06:46:41 PM · #19
Originally posted by Ami Yuy:
Lol, well, I have no idea how it started, but somewhere along in Junior High I was told that Macs were evil and it's just gone downhill since.

My grandmother has a Mac and I ABSOLUTELY hate her computer, confusing to use and the mouse...well give me my two buttons because next time you lose my work I will destroy you! My friend's family got a Mac (heaven know's why, they don't need it) and it's been nothing but trouble for them. Shuts down wrong constantly, loses their work, none of the files are compatible with other computers...

But as Gordon said, they can do everything a PC can, to my knowledge, if better in some areas, oh well, I will stick with what I know and like. ^_^
text

Way back, Apple started donating their older models (the ones that they couldn't sell) to schools. Two big potential payoffs for that 'charity': 1) Big tax write off, and 2) children using the computers in school would learn to live with the limitations of the beasts and not complain. The thought was they would grow up to be died-in-the-wool Apple users, and in some cases that was correct. There is a class of folks that will not even consider using a PC, thinking that in some magical way their clunky old Apple is superior.
06/24/2004 06:54:18 PM · #20
Originally posted by airatic:

Not picking on them, but I wonder if they were Mac users. The Mac's 1.8 gamma makes images prepared on a PC (with their 2.5 gamma) look quite a bit darker. 2.2 gamma has been settled on as a good compromise between the two, and the PC monitors are starting to be calibrated to that instead of the 2.5 gamma but Macs are still at the same 1.8 gamma.

David

Actually I think it is the other way around. Mac images look brighter on a Mac and darker on a PC. As a Mac user with an at home PC as well I often take a look at the images on my PC to check them out. You can do this with another Adobe program that's linked to PS. (I forgot the name... hate these senior moments...) It lets you look at the Mac and the PC versions of your image and tweek it to look okay on both. Ann
 06/24/2004 06:57:50 PM · #21
Originally posted by ElGordo:
There is a class of folks that will not even consider using a PC, thinking that in some magical way their clunky old Apple is superior.

Why be rude? I am a long time PC user who got a Mac when I was in design classes. Now I have both. I like both. I love my Mac and especially its amazing huge display and being able to reach behind stuff and get other stuff. The PC is okay too. There is room in this world for both. Ann
 06/24/2004 07:03:33 PM · #22
LOL!!! Knew I would get a rise out of someone! Don't take it so hard, you know what works best for you and if a Mac is the answer then go with it!
 06/24/2004 07:21:29 PM · #23
Oh no! Not a Mac/PC debate!

06/24/2004 08:41:05 PM · #24
Originally posted by ElGordo:
At the present time I know of NOTHING a Mac can accomplish that cannot be done as well on a PC....at lower cost.


iTunes, iPhoto, iDVD, Rendezvous (all free)... heck, even the latest Mac version of Microsoft Office is supposedly superior to the PC version. I few years ago, I might have agreed about the cost issue, but since you can now get a speedy eMac for $799 (that's not stripped down like entry-level PCs), cost is not really an issue. Mac users in general are famously loyal for good reason (although they throw the bundled 1-button mouse in the garbage). OS X Panther is probably the LEAST trouble-prone OS out there, and there are Mac equivalents to any class of software you can think of... except viruses. For those, you'll need a PC. ;-p

Digistoune, DUCK!

BTW- Mac users can easily preview how their images look on a PC by choosing "Windows RGB" in Photoshop's View>Proof Setup menu. No need to actually touch one (-shudder-).
 06/24/2004 08:51:33 PM · #25
scalvert: for Proof Setup, PC users can check Macintosh RGB.
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