Cha-cha-cha-changes... - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

06/04/2004 10:32:55 AM · #1

I just uploaded my deep depth of field shot and the color changed DRAMATICALLY from when I had the document open in Photoshop. I've never had a problem with this before! It lost almost all of the depth and saturation- any ideas?

I used an old point-and-shoot (Kodak DX3500), could that have something to do with it? Don't know why it would, but it's the only large change I made.

Konador

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

06/04/2004 10:35:55 AM · #2

You have to make sure you are in Adobe RGB in Photoshop I think

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR DG IF-ED

06/04/2004 10:40:00 AM · #3

Originally posted by Konador:

You have to make sure you are in Adobe RGB in Photoshop I think

I am in RGB mode- not a duotone this time ;-)

Pedro

Nikon D200

06/04/2004 10:41:20 AM · #4

Originally posted by Konador:

You have to make sure you are in Adobe RGB in Photoshop I think

That would account for the colour, but I'm not sure if it could affect the depth, which is a focus characteristic. Silly question, but are you sure you uploaded the right file? It wouldn't be the first time someone did that. :)

KarenB

Canon EOS-70D

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

06/04/2004 10:42:11 AM · #5

This has happened to me on occasion. I do not know the answer to "why?".
Try lightening a bit (maybe with curves), and try uploading again.

06/04/2004 10:43:54 AM · #6

Opening an untagged image in Photoshop treats it as though it were in your working color space (depending on your color settings). It's likely your working space is Adobe RGB. Of course, it could be something completely different, but clearly it's not sRGB.

There are a number of ways for you to approach this issue, but probably the easiest for you at the moment is to simply convert (Image->Mode->Convert to profile) the image to sRGB prior to saving for upload to dpc.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

06/04/2004 10:53:05 AM · #7

Originally posted by dwoolridge:

I just tried it- no change. I'm sure I'm looking at the same file- I have photoshop open next to DPC. Any other ideas?

Thanks for the help- Amanda

Konador

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

06/04/2004 10:55:40 AM · #8

can you take a screenshot of the side-by-side, and upload to your profile so we can see?

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

06/04/2004 10:59:01 AM · #9

Originally posted by Konador:

can you take a screenshot of the side-by-side, and upload to your profile so we can see?

Um..... nope, cause it's for the Deep DOF challenge! Erm, I can see if I have similar issues with another photo from the same camera.....

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

06/04/2004 10:59:07 AM · #10

Originally posted by Jesuispeure:

Originally posted by dwoolridge:
Opening an untagged image in Photoshop treats it as though it were in your working color space (depending on your color settings). It's likely your working space is Adobe RGB. Of course, it could be something completely different, but clearly it's not sRGB.

There are a number of ways for you to approach this issue, but probably the easiest for you at the moment is to simply convert (Image->Mode->Convert to profile) the image to sRGB prior to saving for upload to dpc.

I just tried it- no change. I'm sure I'm looking at the same file- I have photoshop open next to DPC. Any other ideas?

Thanks for the help- Amanda

Open the copy of final image that's on your hard drive both in your browser and in Photoshop and display them side-by-side. Do the colors match? I suspect they do not, and this would indicate that your color space is in fact the culprit.

06/04/2004 11:02:43 AM · #11

Originally posted by Jesuispeure:

I just tried it- no change.

When you say no change, do you mean that:
1. after converting to sRGB in Photoshop, it still looked the same in photoshop
2. after converting to sRGB, saving, then uploading to dpc, it still looked incorrect (different from photoshop)
?

06/04/2004 11:15:02 AM · #12

Originally posted by dwoolridge:

Originally posted by Jesuispeure:
I just tried it- no change.

When you say no change, do you mean that:
1. after converting to sRGB in Photoshop, it still looked the same in photoshop
2. after converting to sRGB, saving, then uploading to dpc, it still looked incorrect (different from photoshop)
?

It still changed when entering it onto DPC after saving it to sRGB. Here's a different photo from the same camera that did the same thing. Upper left photo is Photoshop, lower right DPC. Sorry for the clutter in the background- 'tis late here and I'm not super fast with the computer.

06/04/2004 11:33:04 AM · #13

What is your RGB working space (Edit->Color Settings)?

When the convert dialog comes up, what is the Source Space profile? (And what are your conversion options: Engine, Intent, etc.?)

06/04/2004 02:35:43 PM · #14

Originally posted by dwoolridge:

What is your RGB working space (Edit->Color Settings)?

When the convert dialog comes up, what is the Source Space profile? (And what are your conversion options: Engine, Intent, etc.?)

Hmm... I don't see a color settings choice either highlighted or grayed under edit. When I choose to convert the color profile it comes up as Working RGB.

I'm sorry- this is quite techincal for me! Thanks for your patience

06/04/2004 02:45:01 PM · #15

I guess for your version of PS it might be under Edit->Preferences. From there you should be able to find your color settings.

06/04/2004 02:53:57 PM · #16

I'm using a Mac- that probably changes the program slightly.

According to the Color Settings I'm in Web Graphics Defaults and the RGB is sRGB IEC61966-2.1. The conversion options are Engine: Adobe ACE and Intent:Relative Colorimetric.

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G IF-ED VR

06/04/2004 03:04:48 PM · #17

Try this... look under the View menu for Proof Setup. Macintosh RGB should roughly match what you're seeing after uploading to DPC. Windows RGB will be what the same photo looks like to PC-users (the majority on this site, I think). Macs and Windows use different gamma settings, so the same image will appear darker on a PC than a Mac.

flip89

Nikon D700

06/04/2004 03:08:53 PM · #18

I have had the same problem (not only in DPC but in other sites as well). I'm sure it's a working space problem and scalvert's suggestion I remember worked.

Also try to saturate (image -> adjustments -> hue/saturation) to about +10 to +20. I find that also helps.

06/04/2004 03:09:11 PM · #19

Originally posted by scalvert:

BINGO! That changed the image to what it looks like on DPC! THANKS!!!

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

06/04/2004 03:23:34 PM · #20

Happy to help. Note to Mac users... be sure to preview your entries in Windows RGB before submitting, since that's what most of the voters will see. I aim for a slightly lighter look on the Mac preview, so the image isn't too dark for the PC folk (they don't call it "The Dark Side" for nothing).

Message edited by author 2004-06-04 15:30:10.

Nusbaum

Fujifilm X-T1

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

06/04/2004 04:45:02 PM · #21

I had the same problem and eventually decided to change the gamma on my mac to '2.2'. I know this is sacrilege for many mac users, but I actually found the suggestion on he web site for a team that specializes in mac workflow. There was a long technical discussion about the differences between the gamma settings, but in the end I just took the recommendation and I have had fewer color problems with both web and print work.

Message edited by author 2004-06-04 16:45:47.

dacrazyrn

Nikon D300

06/04/2004 05:50:14 PM · #22

Originally posted by scalvert:

Don't do this!! You do not have to preview in Windows. You need to preview in the Monitor choice. I have used Apple/Mac since 1982 (still hate hearing this stuff). Yes the gamma is different between the 2 (unless you change them), but what matters is the profile for the MONITOR. It is the color space for the Web. Web is 216 colors. Most others are lots more, that is why you get the color change.
Open your final edited pic. Dulicate the whole pic (flatten image or make sure not just a layer) and name it whatever. Select the duplicate and the do proof setup and choose monitor. Place the 2 so you can view them side by side. Now make adjustments to the copy until it looks like your other one. Save For Web...you are done.

06/04/2004 08:20:56 PM · #23

Web color only matters for GIFs. With JPEG, you're working with millions of colors, not 216. My understanding is that your gamma setting has a significant effect on your monitor profile. Change that gamma setting and you'll get very different results when proofing for your monitor. The purpose of the Macintosh RGB and Windows RGB proof setups is to see how an image will look on the different platforms. This is simply my understanding of how it works- I don't pretend to be an authority on the matter.

06/05/2004 07:23:23 AM · #24

Originally posted by dacrazyrn:

All the Monitor RGB proof does is dump the raw image data to your monitor without conversion. If your monitor is calibrated to D65/2.2, then things will mostly work out when you throw it up on the web. Otherwise, you're happy and maybe your PC (or Mac or other) users aren't.

Unfortunately, Macintosh RGB and Windows RGB profiles also just dump your image data to the targeted profile. If you save your image after doing edits in that state, make sure you dump your profile too. For DPC, that happens anyway. I prefer having a web proof entry that shows my image after converstion to sRGB. I suppose most people don't actively do conversions when editing JPEGs though.

The fact is, macs have approximately a gamma of 1.8 (i'm not sure what their WP is though on average), newer PC CRTs/LCDs are around gamma 2.2 (WP usually around D65 although upwards of 9300K is not uncommon), and older PC CRTs are probably closer to gamma 2.5 (WP maybe 6500K?). Good luck trying to find a suitable single version of your photo that looks "correct" for everone other than you.

Look at what Bill Atkinson is doing on his site. With Little CMS maybe we'll get a browser that can deal with this once and for all. Alternatively, the back-end could do appropriate/standard conversions (on the fly if necessary). To the future!

Message edited by author 2004-06-05 07:24:01.