DPC Voting Primer - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

06/15/2015 09:09:27 AM · #1

I retract it all

MODS please just remove the thread.

Message edited by author 2015-06-15 14:25:31.

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

06/15/2015 09:29:32 AM · #2

Says he who has a grand total of 19,331 votes cast with an average of 5.4048.

The words "Physician heal thyself" come to mind. :O)

Ray

EDIT: That was a rather quick change of heart.

Message edited by author 2015-06-15 11:08:09.

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

06/15/2015 09:33:46 AM · #3

Sorry, I forgot where I was.

Message edited by author 2015-06-15 09:38:39.

SEG

Nikon D7100

06/15/2015 10:28:48 AM · #4

Ray, you'll have to learn to quote when this happens so we can all see the original post. Lol

RyanW

Nikon D7000

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

06/15/2015 11:56:44 AM · #5

I read it before it was redacted and I think it's pretty spot-on to what Kevin had stated.
Basically to not be a jerk and low-vote; if you think of the image on its own, vote on its own merits, and not just try to skew your scores to proclaim "this image should be first" but to look at it and say "this image deserves an 8" or "this image is like 'grandma taking a picture at a party' and should be a 4".

It truly was good in its intent to not say "screw everybody else, I'm voting everybody low to hopefully elevate my teams score as a result".
It's bound to be said at the start of DPL (and it was in each TPL I've seen), and it was generally well written, Ray just pointed out that the advice is coming from someone who has the average vote cast of 5.4 over 19k votes; but in a lifetime at DPC, we all get jaded, so trying to start DPL off on a good foot shouldn't necessarily be something that people get chided over.

smardaz

06/15/2015 12:02:28 PM · #6

I sometimes hate the fact that those stats are posted on the profile pages. Should it be surprising that over the course of many years/votes that someones avg vote cast would hover around 5.4 to 5.7? Wouldn't it stand to reason that the majority of those pictures would be in the "it's ok" range and not in the "wow" category?

mindbottling

Canon EOS R6

Canon RF 100mm f/2.8 L Macro IS USM

06/15/2015 12:04:16 PM · #7

Plus, if 5.5 is "average" as the original now-deleted post indicated, 5.4 is not too far off the mark.

Personally, I appreciated the post and am dismayed that klkitchens felt the need to remove it.

SaraR

Sony Alpha a7R III

Sony FE 24-70mm f/2.8 GM

06/15/2015 12:08:08 PM · #8

Originally posted by smardaz:

And plenty in the "not good" range, too... and to save anyone the bother of looking up my average, it is 5.5971 with 104,864 votes cast! Tbh, I often feel I am over-genorous with my scoring at the lower end of the spectrum - maybe I should do something about that ;P

C_Steve_G

Apple iPhone 12

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 35-135mm f/3.5-4.5

06/15/2015 12:18:34 PM · #9

Originally posted by RyanW:

...if you think of the image on its own, vote on its own merits, and not just try to skew your scores to proclaim "this image should be first" but to look at it and say "this image deserves an 8" or "this image is like 'grandma taking a picture at a party' and should be a 4"...

I've always believed and voted in this manner.

Jon_H

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

06/15/2015 12:19:33 PM · #10

Damn it I had saved the page to read later and when I refreshed it had gone, now I'm intrigued as to what it said.

I would consider myself a low voter, if it doesn't wow me it's getting a 5 unless it's a snapshot or has some issues with it then it's going to be lower.

Those that are good shots start on a six until i have reviewed the six and above shots and scored them a seven, I then review my sevens until I don't feel the images left deserve any higher.

Sometimes there are lots of 7s sometimes not but overall I'm consistent and hopefully fair.

Message edited by author 2015-06-15 12:20:26.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

06/15/2015 12:27:08 PM · #11

As far as I'm concerned, it's to be expected that anyone who's cast a lot of votes should have an average somewhere around 5.3 to 5.7, right in the middle of the range. It makes perfect sense. That's where the "average" IS on the scale, as

mindbottling pointed out. I'm on the low end, with 150,000+ votes and a 5.3x average score given. So I don't see anything wrong with Kevin's 5.4x average...

06/15/2015 01:11:19 PM · #12

I retract it all

Message edited by author 2015-06-15 14:25:15.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

06/15/2015 01:35:16 PM · #13

I don't vote in this manner. My score can change based on other photos in a challenge. If a challenge is really stinky, and there's one photo I like, I might give that photo a 10. But that same photo might only get a 7 in a good challenge. As long as I'm consistent *within a challenge* I don't think I'm breaking the TOS.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

06/15/2015 01:36:32 PM · #14

Originally posted by klkitchens:

Done. You may disagree with this, but you'd be wrong.

I think this is the part which bothers people. This site acknowledges that people can have different values systems and different criteria about what constitutes a "good" or a "bad" picture, and that as long as everyone votes consistently the aggregate score of these varied systems constitutes a valid evaluation for the purposes of ranking the photos.

There is no point in telling someone they are "wrong" about something which is subjective, such as whether or not they like a picture; you will merely annoy and antagonize them, and make it less likely they will listen to any other points you want to make.

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

06/15/2015 01:36:50 PM · #15

I retract it all

Message edited by author 2015-06-15 14:25:03.

Mike

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

06/15/2015 01:41:09 PM · #16

how about we stop telling people how they should vote?

06/15/2015 01:41:16 PM · #17

Originally posted by klkitchens:

Given your example, we should never ever ever combine scores to a single average.

ah... another convert to the notion that art cannot be assigned a number... welcome to the Dark Side.

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

06/15/2015 01:43:27 PM · #18

I retract it all

Message edited by author 2015-06-15 14:24:54.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

06/15/2015 01:43:48 PM · #19

Originally posted by klkitchens:

Reposted... I usually save stuff offline, LOL

Kevin, there's one aspect of what you're saying in the OP that I have to disagree with:

It's your position that there's some sort of an absolute scale of horrible-to-excellent that applies to photographs as a whole, and that based on those criteria most DPC images are better-than-average. It reminds me of Garrison Keilor's "Welcome to Lake Wobegone, where all our children are above average." That's not the way I look at it.

I think that we (DPC) exist as a particular subset of the photography world, and that collectively we judge to a somewhat higher standard. There's a certain quality of work that defines OUR average, and it's higher than the average-of-all-works-on-the-internet, so to speak.

So I don't think your statement that "most of the photos should have a ton of 6 and 7 votes" holds water.

I do agree with you that if a challenge is top-heavy with excellence, one's average vote cast in that challenge should be higher. I don't think "ranking" images is what we're about, as you say, but rather "scoring" them. It's just that I think there are better ways of "scoring" than to operate on the assumption that all our children are better-than-average.

06/15/2015 01:45:10 PM · #20

I retract it all

Message edited by author 2015-06-15 14:24:07.

06/15/2015 01:45:48 PM · #21

Originally posted by klkitchens:

But when it's mathematically a fact that a 5.5 IS average

That is not a mathematical fact.

06/15/2015 01:46:11 PM · #22

I retract it all

Message edited by author 2015-06-15 14:23:59.

06/15/2015 01:46:41 PM · #23

I retract it all

Message edited by author 2015-06-15 14:23:45.

06/15/2015 01:47:48 PM · #24

Originally posted by klkitchens:

Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by klkitchens:
But when it's mathematically a fact that a 5.5 IS average

That is not a mathematical fact.

10 + 1 = 11
11 / 2 = 5.5

FACT

Unless you can disprove that.

okay, you've proven that the average of 10 and 1 is 5.5. What does that have to do with average score?