Someone taking the picture for you

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 16-85 f/3.5-5.6G ED VR

05/24/2004 06:02:29 PM · #26

Originally posted by Nazgul:

what about when people take self portraits using timer?

just a bit difficult to use the timer in that particular setup coz I had to wait until the water got still from me walking across;)

#

Erm, IR remote? make sure the snooze is set to 30 mins? I really like the picture but am amongst the people that would suggest you are not the photographer because you didn't take the picture. Wackybill seemed to hit the nail on the head, if you were not in the picture and (say) stood next to the person that took the picture are you still the photographer??

rcrawford

Nikon D300

05/24/2004 06:02:34 PM · #27

If two people collaborate and have equal influence on the final photo, which account should they submit under or should that type of photo not be allowed as a entry?

05/24/2004 06:04:36 PM · #28

Originally posted by rcrawford:

If two people collaborate and have equal influence on the final photo, which account should they submit under or should that type of photo not be allowed as a entry?

Gee just go ahead and DQ that shot if its such a problem.....

bruski

Tamron SP AF 17-35mm f/2.8-4 Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

05/24/2004 06:06:21 PM · #29

Originally posted by Ecce Signum:

Originally posted by Nazgul:
what about when people take self portraits using timer?

just a bit difficult to use the timer in that particular setup coz I had to wait until the water got still from me walking across;)
#

Erm, IR remote? make sure the snooze is set to 30 mins? I really like the picture but am amongst the people that would suggest you are not the photographer because you didn't take the picture. Wackybill seemed to hit the nail on the head, if you were not in the picture and (say) stood next to the person that took the picture are you still the photographer??

The point is that he set up the shot. He composed it and framed it. Heida didn't even have to look thru the view finder. She was an assistant to the photographer, she was his shutter release.

Alecia

Canon EOS-10D

05/24/2004 06:07:57 PM · #30

Originally posted by wackybill:

Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
If it's not legal it should be. Hitting the button is the most insignifiant part of the photofraphy process. I don't know the shot I haven't notice but if he/she made the setup had the vision, and prepared everything only someone else pushed the button, he/she is the photographer the other person could be considered no more than replacement for a remote control.

Does this mean that I can visualize a shot of an animal, express this to my friend, send them to the zoo, they capture the exact shot I explained and I am the photographer and not my friend? I don't think so. The person behind the camera or in control of the shutter is the photographer.

This would also mean that because someone with the academy awards set up the stage and all of the lighting and the photography backdrop and told the movie star where to stand, that makes them the photographer and not the actual photographers behind the cameras. Doesn't quite fit.

Is it really a SELF PORTRAIT if you didn't take the portrait, your friend did. Doesn't seem quite right here either. Self portrait can be achieved in a few ways, Holding the camera at arms length pointed at ones self, photographing ones self in a reflective surface, remote, timer. The person who pushes the remote button or sets the timer is the photographer. If the person photographed did not initiate the shutter release, they are not the photographer.

This is all just opinion, of course.

no but if you went to the zoo with your friend and did everything and then told them to push the button, you would be the photographer. i dont think describing a shot and physically setting up a shot are the same thing really. because there is really no way do express your vision like that to someone else.

and the oscars thing--well no. because again, you cant really express your vision to someone else. you could tell 5 people to go take pics of the same actor in the same spot with the same lighting and backdrop--and i bet they all look different. unless of course you set up the shot yourself--and told 5 people to go press the shutter, then they would all look the same. so to me, that makes you the photograher. thats how i see it anyway.

rcrawford

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 16-85 f/3.5-5.6G ED VR

05/24/2004 06:10:27 PM · #31

Originally posted by Nazgul:

Sorry, that was a hypothetical question.

05/24/2004 06:12:50 PM · #32

Originally posted by G4Ds:

Originally posted by Ecce Signum:

Originally posted by Nazgul:
what about when people take self portraits using timer?

just a bit difficult to use the timer in that particular setup coz I had to wait until the water got still from me walking across;)
#

Erm, IR remote? make sure the snooze is set to 30 mins? I really like the picture but am amongst the people that would suggest you are not the photographer because you didn't take the picture. Wackybill seemed to hit the nail on the head, if you were not in the picture and (say) stood next to the person that took the picture are you still the photographer??

The point is that he set up the shot. He composed it and framed it. Heida didn't even have to look thru the view finder. She was an assistant to the photographer, she was his shutter release.

Ok, maybe I'm not thinking along the right lines here? but if he set up the shot and framed it why did Heida have to press the shutter more than once? surely the picture would have been the same on every exposure? I really think we are nit picking on this one.

W.R.Miller

05/24/2004 06:13:06 PM · #33

Originally posted by G4Ds:

Originally posted by wackybill:

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
I seem to remember this discussion coming up once before. As I remember it, the consensus was this:

If the person pushing the button is essentially acting as a remote control with a pulse (strictly taking commands from the photographer without any creative input of their own whatsoever), then it is ok. If they are making any decisions as to camera settings and/or composition at the time of exposure, then it is probably not.

Again, this is not an official ruling, just my recollection.

-Terry

Who would be responsible for camera (hand) shake in this situation? The person instructing or the person holding the camera or pushing the button? I would say it's the person holding the camera or pushing the buttons fault, the photographer.

That's why you put it on a tripod when you set up the shot.

Pushing the shutter even while set on tripod can still cause shake.

UNCLEBRO

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

05/24/2004 06:13:36 PM · #34

I think the shot should stand (it's a great shot too), but maybe the rules need to be changed to accommodate this loophole and avoid any future disputes.

birgir

Canon EOS-10D

05/24/2004 06:13:40 PM · #35

Originally posted by Ecce Signum:

Originally posted by G4Ds:

Originally posted by Ecce Signum:

Originally posted by Nazgul:
what about when people take self portraits using timer?

just a bit difficult to use the timer in that particular setup coz I had to wait until the water got still from me walking across;)
#

Erm, IR remote? make sure the snooze is set to 30 mins? I really like the picture but am amongst the people that would suggest you are not the photographer because you didn't take the picture. Wackybill seemed to hit the nail on the head, if you were not in the picture and (say) stood next to the person that took the picture are you still the photographer??

The point is that he set up the shot. He composed it and framed it. Heida didn't even have to look thru the view finder. She was an assistant to the photographer, she was his shutter release.

Ok, maybe I'm not thinking along the right lines here? but if he set up the shot and framed it why did Heida have to press the shutter more than once? surely the picture would have been the same on every exposure? I really think we are nit picking on this one.

Maybe he changed position for each shoot?

bruski

Tamron SP AF 17-35mm f/2.8-4 Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

05/24/2004 06:14:15 PM · #36

Originally posted by wackybill:

Originally posted by G4Ds:

Originally posted by wackybill:

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
I seem to remember this discussion coming up once before. As I remember it, the consensus was this:

If the person pushing the button is essentially acting as a remote control with a pulse (strictly taking commands from the photographer without any creative input of their own whatsoever), then it is ok. If they are making any decisions as to camera settings and/or composition at the time of exposure, then it is probably not.

Again, this is not an official ruling, just my recollection.

-Terry

Who would be responsible for camera (hand) shake in this situation? The person instructing or the person holding the camera or pushing the button? I would say it's the person holding the camera or pushing the buttons fault, the photographer.

That's why you put it on a tripod when you set up the shot.

Pushing the shutter even while set on tripod can still cause shake.

That's why you need to be careful.

05/24/2004 06:15:04 PM · #37

Originally posted by rcrawford:

Originally posted by Nazgul:

Originally posted by rcrawford:
If two people collaborate and have equal influence on the final photo, which account should they submit under or should that type of photo not be allowed as a entry?

Gee just go ahead and DQ that shot if its such a problem.....

Sorry, that was a hypothetical question.

well my friend that wasnt the case ......
If you think I am using HeiÃ°aÂ´s skills to get high scores for myself in here you are all terribly wrong.

That beeing my highest score and all that beats me and I am far from all that happy with that photo!

W.R.Miller

05/24/2004 06:15:53 PM · #38

Originally posted by rcrawford:

If two people collaborate and have equal influence on the final photo, which account should they submit under or should that type of photo not be allowed as a entry?

The person who actually initiates the shutter release. I have seen many times when people thank other for setting up their shots and thank them for setting up their lighting. No problem with that. Just because someone plants a beautiful flower that I take a picture of that doesn't make them the photographer because they planted the flower and set it there for me to shoot.

W.R.Miller

05/24/2004 06:16:35 PM · #39

Originally posted by Nazgul:

There is no problem. Just a friendly discussion.

05/24/2004 06:17:05 PM · #40

Originally posted by birgir:

Originally posted by Ecce Signum:

Originally posted by G4Ds:

Originally posted by Ecce Signum:

Originally posted by Nazgul:
what about when people take self portraits using timer?

just a bit difficult to use the timer in that particular setup coz I had to wait until the water got still from me walking across;)
#

Erm, IR remote? make sure the snooze is set to 30 mins? I really like the picture but am amongst the people that would suggest you are not the photographer because you didn't take the picture. Wackybill seemed to hit the nail on the head, if you were not in the picture and (say) stood next to the person that took the picture are you still the photographer??

The point is that he set up the shot. He composed it and framed it. Heida didn't even have to look thru the view finder. She was an assistant to the photographer, she was his shutter release.

Ok, maybe I'm not thinking along the right lines here? but if he set up the shot and framed it why did Heida have to press the shutter more than once? surely the picture would have been the same on every exposure? I really think we are nit picking on this one.

Maybe he changed position for each shoot?

Erm, from the rock? how could he frame the shot from so far away?. Well, I think it was a great shot 'whomsoever took it'

Message edited by author 2004-05-24 18:17:32.

bruski

Tamron SP AF 17-35mm f/2.8-4 Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

05/24/2004 06:17:53 PM · #41

Originally posted by wackybill:

Originally posted by rcrawford:
If two people collaborate and have equal influence on the final photo, which account should they submit under or should that type of photo not be allowed as a entry?

The person who actually initiates the shutter release. I have seen many times when people thank other for setting up their shots and thank them for setting up their lighting. No problem with that. Just because someone plants a beautiful flower that I take a picture of that doesn't make them the photographer because they planted the flower and set it there for me to shoot.

You are right, you are the photographer because you composed and framed the shot. The guy who planted the flower could have pushed the shutter, but you are still the photographer of that image.

Message edited by author 2004-05-24 18:21:00.

faidoi

Pentax K10D

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

05/24/2004 06:19:01 PM · #42

Originally posted by Nazgul:

I think this only proves that you were being gentlemenly(is that a word) and not making Heida wade out to the rock :)

05/24/2004 06:19:18 PM · #43

You people are too much:p

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

05/24/2004 06:20:01 PM · #44

Originally posted by faidoi:

Originally posted by Nazgul:

well my friend that wasnt the case ......
If you think I am using HeiÃ°aÂ´s skills to get high scores for myself in here you are all terribly wrong.

That beeing my highest score and all that beats me and I am far from all that happy with that photo!

I think this only proves that you were being gentlemenly(is that a word) and not making Heida wade out to the rock :)

lol or Heida beeing too much of a lady ;)

birgir

Canon EOS-10D

05/24/2004 06:21:43 PM · #45

If it is a point and shoot camera then the one who pressed the button is the photographer but in this case then Nazgul set the shutterspeed, aparture, iso and every thing, he even put the camera on a tripod so this shoot is his.

05/24/2004 06:26:52 PM · #46

Originally posted by birgir:

Now, do we really need another element in this discussion? the dSLR could have been on automatic? In this particular shot I'm in favour of saying the 'photog' was the person that 'framed' the image but in a picture with movement (of any sort) surely it is the person that released the shutter that can claim any fame?

05/24/2004 06:28:24 PM · #47

Originally posted by Ecce Signum:

Originally posted by birgir:
If it is a point and shoot camera then the one who pressed the button is the photographer but in this case then Nazgul set the shutterspeed, aparture, iso and every thing, he even put the camera on a tripod so this shoot is his.

Now, do we really need another element in this discussion? the dSLR could have been on automatic? In this particular shot I'm in favour of saying the 'photog' was the person that 'framed' the image but in a picture with movement (of any sort) surely it is the person that released the shutter that can claim any fame?

could have been this could have been that ........

It was not on automatic I assure you!

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

05/24/2004 06:35:29 PM · #48

Originally posted by Nazgul:

could have been this could have been that ........

It was not on automatic I assure you!

Would have been a real bummer if somebody else forgot to set the date correctly :)

Great shot, well deserved place and I guess we should close the topic?

nborton

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

05/24/2004 06:40:20 PM · #49

there should be a rule change that states:

"Your right index finger, and only your right index finger may take the shot. You may not use your toe (on either foot), or any other finger on your right or left hand. In the event that you don't have a right finger, you may not submit to dpc. Secondly, if you use a timer or a remote to take the picture, you can not submit under your profile name. You will have to make a second account with a creative username based on your camera model. At which point your first account will be erased due to violating the two user rule. Also, one should only use the right eye to compose the shot through the viewfinder. The use of the left eye is grounds for suspension from the site."