In search of pocketable, high-quality, go anywhere

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

04/25/2014 11:53:29 AM · #1

I have a trip coming up and i'll be going to an unsafe region where i know expensive equipment get snatched easily and very likely. So i don't want to carry my primary DSLR and lenses - i am not a pro so can't afford to buy everything over. A while ago i had sold my Canon EOS M and now am realizing it would be the PERFECT camera for this trip. I don't have to carry a dedicated camera bag/weight for it either - a big plus. Just need the 22mm pancake lens and it vanishes in your pocket, takes DSLR quality pics and looks like an ordinary point & shoot; people don't really pay attention to it.

When i sold it earlier, i had decided to buy into Fujifilm MILC system - X-T1 was a dream. But when i actually looked into it, the cost of camera body and lenses is equal to my main DSLR body/lenses. It has to be a replacement and not a supplement - for me.

Then i looked into the Fuji X100 and even X20 as they recently came up on forums here but even used X100 is like $650 and does not seems to do a better job than the EOS M which has same APSC-C size sensor (almost). BUT the EOS M still can be had with its superb 22mm/f2 pancake lens NEW for about $350.

So i pretty much have decided to buy another EOS M/22mm kit but a shout out to all who might think there is a better option? Price is a big factor (i could lose it during my trip) as well as the image quality...

Message edited by author 2014-04-25 11:54:58.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

04/25/2014 12:02:01 PM · #2

Look into the Sony RX100; the original (not the "II" version) is less expensive, has outstanding image quality including great low-light performance, and is even more pocketable than the EOS M.

04/25/2014 12:30:24 PM · #3

Thanks Fritz for reminding me of Sony RX100 - i had very favorable view of it when i first read about it.

Just checked on Amazon, RX100 (1st gen) is $550 for new and used for ~~$350~~ $430+ :(

So i came back to same question: If i am paying $400+ for a used RX100, why not buy a new EOS M w/22mm pancake for less?

Message edited by author 2014-04-25 12:35:34.

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

04/25/2014 12:33:09 PM · #4

Indoor, natural light shot from EOS M (i posted this in an earlier Fuji thread):

I have a feeling people really put EOS M way down - its truely, very underrated. Yes its slow to autofocus and you can't shoot your kids soccer game with it but for family/portrait/landscape shots - its perfectly fine. For me to capture street scene out there and/or landmarks, it would do as well.

Message edited by author 2014-04-25 12:37:57.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

04/25/2014 12:36:08 PM · #5

Originally posted by MEJazz:

So i came back to same question: If i am paying $400+ for a used RX100, why not buy a new EOS M for same price?

Good question... I think both are potentially valid choices, but the RX100 does seem to have an advantage in flexibility (has built-in 3.6x zoom (28-100mm equivalent) and still manages to be more compact than the EOS-M.

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

04/25/2014 12:42:05 PM · #6

Originally posted by kirbic:

the RX100 does seem to have an advantage in flexibility (has built-in 3.6x zoom (28-100mm equivalent) and still manages to be more compact than the EOS-M.

Yes, zoom would be nice to have...

Mike

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

04/25/2014 01:00:30 PM · #7

Originally posted by MEJazz:

its smaller than the eos M and focuses faster.

i took a trip to Vegas and used this camera exclusively, pm me if you want the link to the hi-res images to see its ability.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

04/25/2014 01:21:29 PM · #8

Although I would question the relative image quality purely based on the sensor size:

The 1" sensor in RX100 is almost one quarter the size of APS-C sensor in EOS M - does this not indicate EOS M has better low-light/low-noise/high-ISO and overall better image quality?

Neil

Fujifilm X-T30

04/25/2014 01:25:04 PM · #9

The RX100 is still my favorite camera. I just wish it had a viewfinder.

It's made me a fan of Sony and Zeiss.

And this is really really tempting me. Smaller than your SLR, but not a true compact. But at this price, it's competitive with the RX10 while being a APS-C sensor.

A6000 with 16-70 F4 lens, for $1,346.00. If you consider the lens at full price, you're paying $346 for the camera.

//www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1038726-REG/sony_alpha_a6000_mirrorless_digital.html

Price only good through tomorrow.

Note this is not "compact" like the RX100, but much smaller than your SLR.

Message edited by author 2014-04-25 13:27:16.

Mike

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

04/25/2014 01:35:27 PM · #10

Originally posted by MEJazz:

Although I would question the relative image quality purely based on the sensor size:

The 1" sensor in RX100 is almost one quarter the size of APS-C sensor in EOS M - does this not indicate EOS M has better low-light/low-noise/high-ISO and overall better image quality?

maybe...

iso 3200, sony rx100

i say it can hold its own with an aps-c. read reviews too, high ISO performance was the main reason i went with this camera.

Message edited by author 2014-04-25 13:37:07.

chazoe

Nikon Z7 FX

Nikon MF Micro-Nikkor 85mm f/2.8D PC

04/25/2014 01:49:56 PM · #11

Sounds like you have your mind made up. I don't understand the point of the thread other than espousing the supposed greatness of the eos m.

04/25/2014 01:52:29 PM · #12

Cool, yes image quality depends on glass, sensor, image pipeline, processing etc. and it seems like Sony has optimized all to achieve very high quality in a very compact form factor. No doubt Sony is the frontrunner for compact/MILC camera excellence. You guys have introduced me to new gear to salivate over now...

Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

04/25/2014 01:56:15 PM · #13

Originally posted by chazoe:

Sounds like you have your mind made up. I don't understand the point of the thread other than espousing the supposed greatness of the eos m.

Yes, i have made up my mind - simply because i need sort of a "disposable" camera at the moment. And sorry, it does sound like i am advocating EOS M a lot but the fact is its the VALUE proposition of it that i am trumpeting.

The point of this thread was to explore any other available option that i might have not known about and people here have come up with one very good one - the RX100. It only falls short on value part of the equation - not quality or practicality or innovativeness etc.

Ann

Olympus OM-D E-M1

04/25/2014 06:23:53 PM · #14

Originally posted by MEJazz:

All things being equal, sensor size matters. In the real world, however, all things are not equal. The EOS M is a fine camera, and is probably just fine for your needs. The RX 100 is better in many ways, but expensive, so it may not be what you want.

Generally, if you want DSLR-like performance, you have to pay DSLR-like prices. With the tiny cameras, you pay a premium for all that miniaturization as well.

Alex_Petrini

Sony Alpha a7R III

Sony FE 24-70mm f/2.8 GM

04/25/2014 06:33:50 PM · #15

If I had Canon I would have no doubt - Eos M. Bigger sensor and you already have the lenses :)

Olyuzi

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

04/25/2014 06:58:39 PM · #16

Another high quality and very pocketable combo is the Panasonic GM-1 with 12-32 kit lens (24-64 35mm equv). The lens is slow but very sharp and covers wide angle to standard, is tiny as well as stablized. The camera body unbelievably small has some nifty features, such as a silent electronic shutter (mechanical shutter too), max shutter speed of 1/16,000 sec, focus peaking if you're into manually focusing, a durable mag alloy body, and highly accurate and speedy autofocus. Low light autofocus is supposed to work well to -4EV. Price is about double of what you would pay for the M with lens.

04/25/2014 07:32:02 PM · #17

The Panasonic looks like a Fuji X100 - retro, rangefinder style. Yes that would be out of budget. Also i had a Lumix TZ5 once and was never happy with its JPEG output; it over-process to make skin tones look 'plasticky'.

04/25/2014 07:46:25 PM · #18

Originally posted by Ann:

Generally, if you want DSLR-like performance, you have to pay DSLR-like prices. With the tiny cameras, you pay a premium for all that miniaturization as well.

Agreed. Though in case of EOS M it does give you DSLR quality with its DSLR sensor; maybe not the DSLR speed. And the only reason its in the running (and winning) is because it got such a bad-rep that Canon have essentially dropped it to 30% of original MSRP. At that price it becomes a very viable option.

Another shot from EOS M and 22mm/f2 pancake lens:

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

04/25/2014 07:54:48 PM · #19

Originally posted by Alexkc:

If I had Canon I would have no doubt - Eos M. Bigger sensor and you already have the lenses :)

I don't see the point of using the EF/EF-S lenses on EOS-M. The whole point of EOS-M is to make the DSLR pocketable and with any of full-size lenses, it no longer remains that. If i am taking out a 24-105 or even a prime like 35mm/f2 IS; i might as well mount it to a Rebel/60D/6D body to balance it well. That's just my point of view. I know many people have bought the adapter and use their existing lenses on it.

Message edited by author 2014-04-25 20:49:05.

Olyuzi

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7

04/25/2014 10:58:00 PM · #20

Yes, Panasonic has gotten criticism for their poor jpeg quality but have improved since the days of the TZ5. I shoot RAW only so don't really know by how much. Another option in the m43rds camp for the same price as the Canon is the Olympus E-PM2 with double lens kit. Will give you the maximum focal flexibility (28-300mm 35mm equiv) in a very small package, although will be bulkier than the M and 22 alone. Slow lenses and you'll probably want to add a fast pancake prime later for dark scenes but I can vouch for the 40-150, it's a phenomenal consumer grade lens with excellent image quality. The E-PM2 also did very well in DXO marks for whatever that's worth, and Olympus camera bodies now sport Sony sensors so they are capable low light tools.

Legacy manual focus lenses can be had cheaply and can provide good low light options with cheap adapters. Something to consider with any of these mirrorless cameras.

eta: The E-PM2 has in-body image stabilization so all of your lenses are stabilized. Also, jpeg quality is excellent.

Message edited by author 2014-04-25 23:09:59.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/26/2014 12:38:11 PM · #21

I saw a new RX-100 for $399 shipped earlier this week, but can't find it now. B&H is selling the Canon G1 X with a 16GB SanDisk Extreme and LowePro bag for $549 today only, which would give you zoom, a tilting display and optical viewfinder, but it's somewhat bulky for a P&S camera. Considering the EOS M is $438 at B&H with a flash, 16GB card, shoulder bag and more, it may be hard to look elsewhere.