Australians need gun control! - DPChallenge Forums

01/26/2014 04:19:32 PM · #101

Originally posted by bohemka:

Originally posted by see:
To add, USSR thought they could beat the US military, but not a populous of gun toting Americans.

Are you sure this was a general and not the screenwriter of Red Dawn?

I have no idea if see has this right or not, but what I do know is that it's likely to be at least somewhat true.

Take a look at several modern wars - the 'military' so to speak was disassembled within days, but we've spent quite a few years attempting to 'deal' with armed populace who just won't comply.

Interesting possibility for sure - but this wouldn't affect my position on the subject either way.

Message edited by author 2014-01-26 16:20:49.

01/26/2014 04:21:31 PM · #102

Once again, I just feel like I need to say thank you to everyone - this conversation has been going magnificently for the last couple of days. Bravo!

see

Canon PowerShot S95

01/26/2014 04:55:41 PM · #103

Originally posted by bohemka:

I am still searching for the interview, I wonder if Red Dawn was inspired by the article.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

01/26/2014 05:30:31 PM · #104

Originally posted by see:

To add, USSR thought they could beat the US military, but not a populous of gun toting Americans.

You might be thinking of some variation of this.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f2.8D

01/26/2014 05:57:19 PM · #105

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

let's assume guns and suicide are linked. I am now asking you how would you stop suicides with some form of gun control that would pass constitutional muster (mainly meaning you cannot BAN them because that will never happen).

Again, plenty of examples abound worldwide, including Australia. There is no negative correlation between gun ownership and and homicide or suicide rates committed by other means. Interfering with impulse is the key, and measures like gun purchase waiting periods, secure storage and trigger locks can have a big impact. As explained by Dr. Dan Reidenberg, executive director the national suicide prevention group of SAVE, â��If people go to the Golden Gate Bridge and encounter a barrier, they donâ��t go to the Bay Bridge and try there.â��

David Ey

Nikon D80

01/26/2014 06:01:31 PM · #106

You say that as if it is fact when you have no idea if it is or not.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

01/26/2014 06:06:06 PM · #107

...

Message edited by author 2014-01-26 18:19:04.

MattO

Nikon D4

01/26/2014 06:08:39 PM · #108

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by MattO:
My brother committed suicide and used a gun to kill himself. Do I blame the gun? No I don't, had he not used a gun another method would have been found.

First off, I'm sorry for your loss, but most studies of suicide seem to indicate that this really isn't so in a majority of cases, that many if not most suicides are impulsive rather than carefully planned, and that the easy availability of handguns is a major factor in their ability to carry out the act -- it takes a lot more work to drive to a bridge or train station than to grab a pistol out of a drawer ...

The fact of the matter is, that the trouble my brother got himself into he was going to do it one way or another. The gun was the easy way out, but that doesn't mean had that choice not been there that he would not have done it.

I live in an area where I am in contact and work with several police agencies, Fire dept. and EMS units. The suicide rate by handguns or shotguns is far lower than drug overdoses or suicide by laceration, or even hangings. Hand guns are/were readily available to many of the patients/victims in these cases but they chose another method.

Nikon MF Micro-Nikkor 85mm f/2.8D PC

01/26/2014 06:38:24 PM · #109

Not that it matters greatly, but I would choose a gun for suicide as only a last resort. Far too unreliable, and I'd really rather not live through such an attempt.

Inert gas, blood loss, OD, car into rock outcropping @ 100+mph - hell, there's a TON of reliable ways to kill oneself, but a handgun is a really poor choice. (not that the suicidal are well known for their awesome decision making...)

see

Canon PowerShot S95

01/26/2014 06:49:10 PM · #110

Over the last 12 years the Government has been playing Wac-A-Mole with our 1st and 4th Amendments. Now law abiding citizens are now are finding it difficult to budge even a inch on even logical adjustments, for fear of what else are we giving up.

chazoe

Nikon Z7 FX

01/26/2014 07:00:23 PM · #111

Originally posted by see:

Excellent point. Both of our two previous administrations have been so hell-bent on carving away our freedoms it is mind boggling to me that people would be so willing to give away more. Especially the one right most responsible for our protection against anarchy or government control.
I know that sounds whacky but I honestly believe the founding fathers gave us the second amendment rights so we could protect ourselves from the government as much as from criminals.

Message edited by author 2014-01-26 19:00:52.

see

Canon PowerShot S95

01/26/2014 07:10:16 PM · #112

Originally posted by chazoe:

Originally posted by see:
Over the last 12 years the Government has been playing Wac-A-Mole with our 1st and 4th Amendments. Now law abiding citizens are now are finding it difficult to budge even a inch on even logical adjustments, for fear of what else are we giving up.

Excellent point. Both of our two previous administrations have been so hell-bent on carving away our freedoms it is mind boggling to me that people would be so willing to give away more. Especially the one right most responsible for our protection against anarchy or government control.
I know that sounds whacky but I honestly believe the founding fathers gave us the second amendment rights so we could protect ourselves from the government as much as from criminals.

I guess the best indication of that is it's the 2nd amendment rather than the 10th..

01/26/2014 09:52:52 PM · #113

Originally posted by see:

The 4th Amendment is dead, any notion otherwise is completely foolish.

Probably deserves a medal though, since it died in the war on drugs.

Stagolee

Kodak Easyshare C180

Canon EF 50mm f1.2L

01/27/2014 02:48:20 AM · #114

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Requirements for registration, training, insurance, legal liability, etc., are all areas where we could do more to ensure that guns are limited to those able to possess and use them responsibly without conflicting with the 2nd, even under the current (distorted IMO) interpretation.

But, Paul. Seriously. How is registration, training, insurance, or legal liability going to prevent the impulse of grabbing the gun to blow your own head off? We're specifically talking suicide prevention. The conversation started off about gun control because of a mass shooting. I mentioned that the correlation between # of guns and murders is pretty non-existent. You countered that suicides are correlated and inferred that I wasn't being caring. For the sake of the argument I will concede and say, fine, let's assume guns and suicide are linked. I am now asking you how would you stop suicides with some form of gun control that would pass constitutional muster (mainly meaning you cannot BAN them because that will never happen).

Do you get my point? You seem to have hitched yourself to suicide prevention, but I'm not sure what your endgame would be.

If you have a look at the key points in the Australian model you will see that the mental health issue of a gun owner or applicant is taken into account.

â�¢ minimum standards for the refusal or cancellation of licenses, including criminal convictions for violent offenses in the past five years, unsafe storage of firearms, failure to notify of a change of address, and â��reliable evidence of a mental or physical condition which would render the applicant unsuitable for owning, possessing or using a firearmâ��

I think you will also find that the majority of suicides or at least a high contributing factor of many suicides are associated to mental health issues! No link of stats to back this up but I believe this is a known fact.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

01/28/2014 04:26:38 PM · #115

Maybe we should take MattO's advice and go back to arguing about AAPL. Down 8% today...

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

01/28/2014 04:50:56 PM · #116

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Maybe we should take MattO's advice and go back to arguing about AAPL. Down 8% today...

Just picked up .09 :-)

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

01/28/2014 05:28:14 PM · #117

I think we should stop confusing the stock market with "the economy," and start applying the same tax rules to short-term capital gains as to other forms of gambling ... and to tie it back in to the thread topic, a couple of lines from the song "Pretty Boy Floyd"

Some will rob you with a six-gun
Others with a fountain pen

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

01/28/2014 05:42:23 PM · #118

If we could then somehow also tie in criminalized marijuana, legalized abortion, and the increasing frequency of same-sex marriage, we'd have us a thread! :)

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

01/28/2014 05:44:37 PM · #119

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

If we could then somehow also tie in criminalized marijuana, legalized abortion, and the increasing frequency of same-sex marriage, we'd have us a thread! :)

OK, you've just made me have to go photograph a sign ... watch this space. :-)

In the meantime, now that pot's legal in Washington, how long do you think this sign will last?

Message edited by author 2014-01-28 17:48:32.

cowboy221977

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

01/28/2014 06:06:31 PM · #120

I haven't been paying attention to this thread but I would like to add one thing

Just remember....Gun Free Zone = Criminal safe zone

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

01/28/2014 06:18:23 PM · #121

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

I haven't been paying attention to this thread but I would like to add one thing

Just remember....Gun Free Zone = Criminal safe zone

Why? I could just run the criminal over with my car, or beat him with a pipe, or carve him up with my knife.

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

01/28/2014 06:29:28 PM · #122

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

I haven't been paying attention to this thread but I would like to add one thing

Just remember....Gun Free Zone = Criminal safe zone

You should move next door to me Cowboy, I promise you will be safe.

Unfortunately though, you will have to register all your handguns, obtain a convey permit and will not be allowed to possess any automatic weapons. You will be ok with hunting rifles, but there are certain limitations on those also.

Truth be told my friend, I feel much safer here than I would living were you are... and I don't even lock the door to the house. :O)

Ray

Message edited by author 2014-01-28 18:30:32.

chazoe

Nikon Z7 FX

Nikon MF Micro-Nikkor 85mm f/2.8D PC

01/28/2014 06:38:47 PM · #123

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
I haven't been paying attention to this thread but I would like to add one thing

Just remember....Gun Free Zone = Criminal safe zone

You should move next door to me Cowboy, I promise you will be safe.

Unfortunately though, you will have to register all your handguns, obtain a convey permit and will not be allowed to possess any automatic weapons. You will be ok with hunting rifles, but there are certain limitations on those also.

Truth be told my friend, I feel much safer here than I would living were you are... and I don't even lock the door to the house. :O)

Ray

I live in a town in Western Colorado with more houses with guns in them than without and I never lock my door. I leave my keys in my truck and have even left my garage door open all day while at work.

I feel safer here than I would feel living where you live. Prove my feelings wrong.