Model / Product Shoot - looking for advice

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/18/2013 05:40:03 PM · #26

A brief update and request for more advice on the model shoot, which is my main concern here - I increased the scheduled time to a full, 8 hour day. My client is doing all the clothing prep the day before the shoot. He will also be there to assist and organize. To answer a previous question - these shots are utilitarian - not artistic. They are standard catalog shots.

So my current concerns are:
Lighting - I am much more comfortable with continuous lighting than strobes. And since these are posed shots, I am hoping that will be fine. I am out of my element with strobes and have found it very hard to control all the factors and there won't be time to figure things out. On the other hand, if there is a downside to continuous lighting that I am not seeing...

Backdrop - I think solid white is the way to go, but many of the products are white - still, most of the mfr model photos have a white bkg. Thoughts?

Equipment - I'm convinced my 7D and 24-105 f4L is plenty sufficient. Anyone disagree (and want to give me their 5DMKIII or 1DX)? :) Any concerns?

Here is the studio space:

Floor Area: 20 ft x 34 ft Height: 14 ft
Lighting: Natural Lighting Available

20 feet x 34 feet with large windows facing east. It includes a door for complete privacy and blackout curtains to help you control studio light for your photo needs. The floor is gray vinyl and the ceiling height is 14 feet.

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

11/18/2013 07:56:56 PM · #27

You should put those models in beefcake poses on the couch! LOL!

Seriously, I can't give you any advice but a bump so that maybe someone who can spots the thread.

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

11/18/2013 08:48:54 PM · #28

Gorgeous space, Ken!!!! is that the set you'll be using, or was that just there when you visited?

In terms of space, you have ample room for what you need.

Re: white backdrop - if you place the model at least 5 feet from the bg, the bg will appear gray/dark gray - enough of a difference to make any white garment stand out. Plus, depending on how you light it, you may be able to get a nice gradient as well.

Re: continuous lights - if you don't use LEDs, you're going to cook your models. If there is no other choice, turn the lights off between outfits. Consider having a fan nearby.

re: equipment - also take your 70-300 with you. It will make it easier to get that nice blurred bg, if that's what you're going for.

An alternate thought is to use the natural light from those gorgeous windows, although I would bring several large white sheets to use as diffusers. I've done this before and the quality of light is wonderful. This would put the shots in the more "arty" looking category, but perhaps it might work for this client. You could then use the continuous lights for fill or backlight.

Finally, I'm glad you got the studio for the day. Working under that kind of pressure needlessly is silly, and does allow for some rest time. As a sometime model, YOU should certainly appreciate how tough that work can be :-)

yanko

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

11/18/2013 09:24:57 PM · #29

Originally posted by tanguera:

Unless I'm mistaken he said natural light not continuous artificial light. Assuming that, you really need to use reflectors to make use of that light, and redirect it to fill in shadows. A scrim / reflector / white sheet would work wonders here to eliminate and or soften shadows..You definitely don't want to have any deep shadows for a product shot so save yourself some editing and take care of them in camera. Also, when you start have the person in charge of the clothing to pay attention to how they fit with the model and fix any creases as they happen so you can just focus on composition and light and not have to fix much in post.

Message edited by author 2013-11-18 21:30:38.

sfalice

Canon PowerShot SX60 HS

11/18/2013 10:36:22 PM · #30

Lots of advice here, Ken.
For the business end...
My suggestion? Drop a line to

Skip.
He has a lot of hard won information and is very willing to share it.

And good luck on this splendid project.

bohemka

Nikon D700

Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX Aspherical DG HSM for Nikon

11/18/2013 10:52:09 PM · #31

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

On the other hand, if there is a downside to continuous lighting that I am not seeing...

You live in Seattle, buddy. You've never experienced "continuous lighting." You'll get all manic and giddy. Be careful.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

11/18/2013 10:53:15 PM · #32

Originally posted by sfalice:

Lots of advice here, Ken.
For the business end...
My suggestion? Drop a line to Skip.
He has a lot of hard won information and is very willing to share it.

Good idea -- I think Skip has links to his most informative articles on his Profile page.

I agree with using diffused natural light as much as you can. If you are using continuous studio lights only for fill you can probably put them far enough away to mitigate the risk of heat stroke ;-)

Good luck -- sounds like quite the adventure!

Originally posted by bohemka:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
On the other hand, if there is a downside to continuous lighting that I am not seeing...

You live in Seattle, buddy. You've never experienced "continuous lighting." You'll get all manic and giddy. Be careful.

No, no ... they live inside the world's largest softbox.

Message edited by author 2013-11-18 22:54:41.

bohemka

Nikon D700

Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX Aspherical DG HSM for Nikon

11/18/2013 10:58:44 PM · #33

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by bohemka:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
On the other hand, if there is a downside to continuous lighting that I am not seeing...

You live in Seattle, buddy. You've never experienced "continuous lighting." You'll get all manic and giddy. Be careful.

No, no ... they live inside the world's largest softbox.

This is true. I used to live there and want to return but am worried about how my wife will handle it. That's a nice twist.

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

11/19/2013 10:47:30 AM · #34

sounds like a fun gig; cheers for grabbing the work, ken!

you've been give some pretty good advice so far; don't know if i can add much.

one thing you'll find is that once you are set up, things are going to go a lot faster than you think. i'd be surprised if you wind up taking more than 2-3 minutes per piece.

your gear is more than adequate to set up on a tripod and shoot wide enough to be able to crop. since you're shooting for the web, it really won't matter how much you crop, you'll still wind up with more than large enough files to work with.

the main thing is to have consistent lighting through the course of the shoot. that would be the only thing that would concern me about a day-long shoot relying on natural/available light.

i can understand your concern about changing your MO and staying in your comfort zone, but strobes would really be the best way to do the shoot. that will practically guarantee consistent lighting for every shot through out the day.

as johanna suggested, a white backdrop is exactly what you need.

one thing i do with clients when they have certain expectations is to give them options: A) this is what i can do with what i have. B) this is what i can do with additional equipment that i will have to rent. let the client decide whether they want to go with A or pay a little more to get B.

if this is lower-budget, web-only production, you really don't need to worry about killing yourself and trying to make this a $20k joey-l fashion shoot ;-) borrow or rent a set of alien bees and just use umbrellas. i've done two-light headshots triggering them with my 580 and they came out nicely. the ABs are really easy to work with. just a standard 45 degree setup and dial the lights down until you're getting even light and you're good to go. all your model has to do is step up and hold a pose.

i once shot 110+ football players this way, two lights and a white backdrop. each guy got 5 poses. all done in barely an hour.

seriously, once you are dialed in, there's not much to it. in your case, yes, your models have to change, but once they get in the rhythm, you'll really be able to rock it out. you will not need to take but a handful of shots of each.

it is a good idea to shoot tethered, just to be able to quickly check for blinks, bad poses, etc. i use the canon software than came with my camera. also, if you have your lights dialed in and are happy with your test shots, you really don't need to shoot RAW - but that's just me. i don't need the overhead and my clients typically don't want to pay the freight. it's just a matter of what you're comfortable with.

hope this helps. if you have any more questions, just let me know. otherwise, i'm sure you'll kill it. have fun!

11/19/2013 11:12:04 AM · #35

Skip's comments made me think of something else. Kevin Scanlon, an awesome portrait 'tog who works for LA Weekly and shoots celebrities for the cover, told me he takes the "regular" images first, then the last 10-15 minutes, he and his subject just "play". Half the time, it's the "playful" (aka "artsy") images that make the cover. You might want to do the standard shots, and then do a few shots that satisfy YOUR creativity - which you can use to illustrate future employers some "options".

Also, as I said before (and as Skip reiterated), I would encourage you to get the strobes. Once you've got the set up, you never need touch it, and you will have consistent lighting in all your images.

Oh, and spike the floor where they need to stand :-)

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

11/19/2013 02:06:26 PM · #36

Thanks again! Great tips. When I said my preference was "continuous lighting" I meant like fluorescent daylight type light banks - not natural light. Anyway - strobes sound like a better choice.

What about model releases? Do I need those if I am not showing their face?

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

11/19/2013 02:10:23 PM · #37

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

What about model releases? Do I need those if I am not showing their face?

Probably not, but it's a good idea. If the client's providing the models, then the releases are his problem anyway, not yours, Discuss it with him.

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

11/19/2013 02:16:41 PM · #38

Thanks Bear. I am providing the models via Craigslist. This shouldn't require any experience really, but I do have concerns about no-shows. Can't really have a backup plan - although maybe I should hire 3 and expect 2 to show up?

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

11/19/2013 02:45:41 PM · #39

definitely get a model release. not a big deal.

check with a local art school or university that has an art department and try to get models through them. you *might* find that to be a more reliable source than relying on a craigslister - unless you've got someone with some references. you really don't want to be dead in the water, shooting selfies on this gig ;-)

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

11/19/2013 03:11:13 PM · #40

For SURE try other sources for models than Craig's List. Both CL and Model Mayhem are quite hit or miss. You may be very lucky and have everyone show up, but it's a definite chance.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

11/19/2013 03:39:43 PM · #41

You also might want to specify the type of shoot and that the model should have no tattoos in the exposed areas.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

11/19/2013 05:22:22 PM · #42

Originally posted by Spork99:

You also might want to specify the type of shoot and that the model should have no tattoos in the exposed areas.

Got that covered. Here is the ad if anyone's interested: //seattle.craigslist.org/see/tlg/4144169292.html

kawesttex

Apple iPhone 11 Pro

11/19/2013 06:46:34 PM · #43

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Spork99:
You also might want to specify the type of shoot and that the model should have no tattoos in the exposed areas.

Got that covered. Here is the ad if anyone's interested: //seattle.craigslist.org/see/tlg/4144169292.html

I actually thought about answering the ad and letting you know I meet all the requirements except the Large, abs, scars, age, and you really don't really want a full body shot of me. And of course I would need air fare and hotel since I am traveling from NE Texas! :-)

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

11/19/2013 08:12:42 PM · #44

Originally posted by kawesttex:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Spork99:
You also might want to specify the type of shoot and that the model should have no tattoos in the exposed areas.

Got that covered. Here is the ad if anyone's interested: //seattle.craigslist.org/see/tlg/4144169292.html

I actually thought about answering the ad and letting you know I meet all the requirements except the Large, abs, scars, age, and you really don't really want a full body shot of me. And of course I would need air fare and hotel since I am traveling from NE Texas! :-)

I'll have to settle for second choices then, Ken. ;-)

MattO

Nikon D4

11/19/2013 08:24:41 PM · #45

Dang I was going to send a cellphone shot to you of me! Until you said no nudes.....

you ruined all my fun!

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/19/2013 08:26:57 PM · #46

Originally posted by MattO:

Dang I was going to send a cellphone shot to you of me! Until you said no nudes.....

you ruined all my fun!

Well you wouldn't have been the only one to not read the details. :/

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

11/19/2013 11:07:21 PM · #47

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by MattO:
Dang I was going to send a cellphone shot to you of me! Until you said no nudes.....

you ruined all my fun!

Well you wouldn't have been the only one to not read the details. :/

Oops. Sorry!

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

11/20/2013 09:15:55 AM · #48

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

What? Oops...sorry about that. Just go ahead and delete those pics...

05/08/2014 03:59:39 PM · #49

Brief update to this post -

I did the model shoot in November. Got 3 models signed up and one alternate (all from Model Mayhem and all signed releases). The night before the shoot, one of the guys backed out, but I was able to get the alternate who turned out to be the best one. I had the workflow setup fairly well: Had printed all the product IDs on half sheets of paper and shot the model holding those as the first shot for each product. That way I could ensure which product was which. Then I shot maybe 2 or 3 of each product on one of the models while the other two were prepping other products. It went by pretty quick - all done in about 3 hours. My client provided lunch and paid the models $100 each and I shot a few extra images of each of them for their portfolios.

Processing was fairly minimal, but I did have to do some PS wizardry in some areas where there were creases or wrinkles. Overall, the client was extremely happy and wrote me a glowing reference letter.

Now he has finally launched his website. It is basically a Men's underwear and Undershirt subscription service (part of his inspiration was Dollar Shave Club). He will be adding some new product lines over the coming months and I will be the photog for all new products. Check it out if you are so inclined - I didn't think much of the idea at first, but it did appeal to me as I thought about it and now I bug him all the time to add socks. :)

www.jocksntees.com

Thanks again for all the advice, suggestions, wisecracks, etc. :) Also, many thanks and another plug for the studio that provided great service and went above & beyond helping me get the lighting dialed in: www.bandiaruastudios.com (Seattle)