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 05/09/2004 04:22:35 PM · #26
Oh! Almost forgot, in digital sports shooting the other critical factor is buffer speed. Right now the D70 is stronger in this area.

Unless you plan on getting 4500 of new camera body. ;)

Clara
 05/09/2004 07:38:33 PM · #27
so people here generally feel that the d70 is the way to go? better than 10d?

edit: the only camera shop around me is ritz in the mall, and there not the most helpful people.

Message edited by author 2004-05-09 19:39:27.
 05/09/2004 08:24:03 PM · #28
I think it comes down to whichever system you want to get into. If you want Canon then I'd suggest the 10D; if Nikon then I'd suggest the D70. To me it makes sense to buy into a system and start investing in high quality glass. You're young and you have some time to get lenses. As you add to your collection of "sports glass" you can reasonably expect that someday you'll upgrade your camera body to provide faster fps and larger buffers.

If you're considering a 300D or a D70 then I say D70 would be better for what you want right now. If you're looking at investing in a total system over the next decade then I'd say that for as long as I can remember the majority of lenses that you see at professional sporting events (and most large college venues) are Canon L glass. Doesn't mean that you won't get the shot you want or that the Nikons are worse equipment but Canon does seem to dominate pro sports photography. Maybe the D2H will cut into that.

Kevin
 05/09/2004 08:25:54 PM · #29
thats exactly what ive been thinking the whole time, whenever i watch sports on TV, you see those white lenses so many more times than black lenses.
 05/10/2004 01:55:40 AM · #30
Originally posted by hsteg:
so people here generally feel that the d70 is the way to go? better than 10d?


I was very interested when the D70 came out, but lost interest after:

a) Nikon does not have the lenses I want, in most test they are of lower quality and they are more expensive
b) no mirror lock-up (mlu); the D70 only has mlu to clean the sensor, it does not work in any shooting mode.

Message edited by author 2004-05-10 01:55:54.
 05/10/2004 02:55:55 AM · #31
Originally posted by hsteg:
edit: the only camera shop around me is ritz in the mall, and there not the most helpful people.


My recommendation would be, the next time you go on vacation to a larger city (one that may have a pro shop) you could rent either one or both of the cameras and see for yourself which one you like better.
 05/10/2004 08:30:45 AM · #32
Originally posted by hsteg:
thats exactly what ive been thinking the whole time, whenever i watch sports on TV, you see those white lenses so many more times than black lenses.


True, but also realize that if/when you reach that point you will probably be reinvesting in a true pro rig. At this point in time, for what you want to do the 300D will not make you happy. The 10D might, but it's going to be a bit of a stretch (slower buffer speed). The D70 will give you instant gratification. Are you really going to be purchasing more than 2-3 lenses in the next few years?

Are you going to be dropping $1500 on a lens in the next 3 years?

Think for a minute realistically about what you want to do and how much camera you need to do it. Then go out, rent both bodies if you can and take em for a spin. :)

Clara
05/10/2004 08:49:20 AM · #33
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Originally posted by hsteg:
edit: the only camera shop around me is ritz in the mall, and there not the most helpful people.


My recommendation would be, the next time you go on vacation to a larger city (one that may have a pro shop) you could rent either one or both of the cameras and see for yourself which one you like better.


About how much would it cost to rent a camera (and lens) for the day?
 05/10/2004 08:57:05 AM · #34
Here in Ottawa : one photo store has the following -

Canon 10D - $100 /day or weekend, $300/week

Canon 300D - $85 / day or weekend, $255/week

I don't know what lens they include, the site doesn't mention a separate lens rental.
 05/10/2004 10:09:36 AM · #35
With the right lens you can get very good sports results with the digital rebel but it would not be the easiest Canon DSLR for sports. You can not manually set the AF mode on the rebel to Ai-Servo in Av mode so you are pretty much stuck with either trying to get the camera in Ai-servo mode and hold it there until your shot comes up or just use sports mode. The tough thing about sports mode is that the camera is going to do what it can to achieve 1/2000 sec and the lens stopped down one stop. This usually means that the camera will select ISO 400. It does not go above ISO 400 but I have found that in using sports mode most of my shots are at ISO 400 and there is no way to manually select a lower ISO in sports mode. You also are stuck with the aperture and exposure that the camera decides on. There is no way to adjust the exposure compensation in sports mode and you can not shoot RAW in sports mode. These are certainly limitations but they in no way stopped me from getting lots of action wildlife shots. It just takes a little more work and skill to get them. The 10D will cost you more but it gives you a 9(?) shot burst instead of a 4 shot burst, which can really make things easier. Of course you can manually set all camera settings in Av mode with the 10D so if you can afford the upgrade to the 10D then it would make life a lot easier for you when taking sports shots. If you really want things to be as easy as possible then you can spend the big bucks and get a 1D or 1D2. The AF is much faster, the viewfinder is brighter and you have 8 frames per second and huge buffers to take long sequences of shots during high action moments. I have only had limited time with the Nikon D70 but I would say if I was on a tight budget I would give it some serious consideration. The D70 has a larger buffer than the rebel and does not have the focus limitations of the Rebel. Overall I was very pleased with the D70 when I tried it out. When I bought my rebel I got it with the kit lens, which I used all of one time. The kit lens seems to be a decent enough lens for the money but I already had the EF 16-35mm f/2.8L so I haven̢۪t had much motivation to use the kit lens. If you think you will be doing some wide angle photography and don̢۪t want to spend a lot on a wide angle lens the kit lens seems like a pretty obvious choice to me. Personally I spend most of my time using telephoto lenses so I would rather put my money in those. Also when looking for lenses don̢۪t overlook Sigma, they make some really great glass, especially for the price.

Here are some shots I took yesterday. There are some action shots in there if you care to look. They were taken with the EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS.

//www.pbase.com/dadas115/050904

Here are a several shots I took using the Rebel in sports mode with the exception of the yellow warbler shot:

//www.pbase.com/dadas115/high_island_tx

One other thing, as great as the 70-200mm f/4 is, my limited experience with shooting ice-hockey says that it is probably too slow. I have a friend who shoots ice hockey frequently with a 10D and 70-200mm f/2.8L and gets great results. I think he frequently needs to use ISO 800 for those shots though, which would mean he would need ISO 1600 if he was using the f/4 lens. ISO 800 is not ideal but the prints still look very good. ISO 1600 is really pushing it quality-wise a lot of the time. My friend frequently uses an 85mm f/1.8 for hockey also, but it is pretty limiting unless the players are close to where he is standing.

I hope this is helpful,

Greg

Message edited by author 2004-05-10 10:14:52.
 05/10/2004 10:50:40 AM · #36
All in all the two lens lineups are very comparable. Both Nikon and Canon make top notch glass and both have a pretty full range of lenses. The differences are in very specialized and usually very expensive lenses. If you find yourself needing a 50mm f/1.0, 200mm f/1.8, 65mm 1-5x macro, small light 400mm f/4 IS, 24mm TS-Eâ€Â¦ then Canon would be a better choice. If you need a 200-400 f/4 VR or a 10mm fisheyeâ€Â¦ then Nikon would be a better choice. Notice that none of these lenses are inexpensive and they are all pretty specialized and would not be found in an average person’s kit. If you look at the more typical lenses in the two lines you will find that they match up very nicely.

Greg

Originally posted by hsteg:
also, this is now becoming a nikon/canon debate thingy, once i buy, im locked in. So which does have a better lens lineup/bang for buck? (ive only heard rumors)
05/10/2004 04:14:05 PM · #37
Originally posted by dadas115:
All in all the two lens lineups are very comparable. Both Nikon and Canon make top notch glass and both have a pretty full range of lenses. The differences are in very specialized and usually very expensive lenses. If you find yourself needing a 50mm f/1.0, 200mm f/1.8, 65mm 1-5x macro, small light 400mm f/4 IS, 24mm TS-Eâ€Â¦ then Canon would be a better choice. If you need a 200-400 f/4 VR or a 10mm fisheyeâ€Â¦ then Nikon would be a better choice. Notice that none of these lenses are inexpensive and they are all pretty specialized and would not be found in an average person’s kit. If you look at the more typical lenses in the two lines you will find that they match up very nicely.

Greg

Originally posted by hsteg:
also, this is now becoming a nikon/canon debate thingy, once i buy, im locked in. So which does have a better lens lineup/bang for buck? (ive only heard rumors)


that macro lens with the 5:1 sounds really really cool!
 05/10/2004 04:30:44 PM · #38
It also costs $800 and is pretty tricky to use. It works really great with the MT-24EX flash though which only costs $650.

Greg
 05/10/2004 04:44:58 PM · #39
Originally posted by dadas115:
It also costs $800 and is pretty tricky to use. It works really great with the MT-24EX flash though which only costs $650.

Greg


lol, i know, that BH catalog is like a wishlist thingy i used to get from toys r us when i was little.
05/10/2004 04:53:48 PM · #40
Yep, now all I need to do is hit the lotto LOL.

Greg
05/10/2004 06:21:05 PM · #41
heh, if i did that, id get a mark 2 and the 70-200 2.8..........to start.
 05/10/2004 06:32:43 PM · #42
Shooting sports? Canon 1D Mark ii, everything else is not suited :)

(Ok, maybe the Nikon D2H too)

Originally posted by hsteg:
Thinking about dSLR, is the digital rebel a good camera for shooting sports? I know AI servo is only capable in Sports mode, but how about with aperature priorty? Im just wondering, as the digital rebel is only 830 at newegg. also, should i get the kit lens for an extra 70? The other lenses im considering are the 50mm 1.8, and the 70-200 4.0L. (when i save up my pennies) Would 4.0 be too slow to shoot indoor ice hockey with crappy lighting?
05/10/2004 06:36:33 PM · #43
Originally posted by paganini:
Shooting sports? Canon 1D Mark ii, everything else is not suited :)


I'm buying my lottery ticket.
 05/10/2004 06:44:14 PM · #44
Originally posted by paganini:
Shooting sports? Canon 1D Mark ii, everything else is not suited :)

(Ok, maybe the Nikon D2H too)



I'm just going to point out for cycling fans that legendary cycling photographer Graham Watson shoots exclusively with Nikon cameras.

Just to prove that not every sports photographer uses Canon. :)

Clara
 05/10/2004 09:47:51 PM · #45
also, if anyone has the 1d now and is planning on getting the 1d2, do you think you could sell it to me at a fair price/price of a 10d. Thanks.
 05/11/2004 08:00:49 PM · #46
Originally posted by hsteg:
also, if anyone has the 1d now and is planning on getting the 1d2, do you think you could sell it to me at a fair price/price of a 10d. Thanks.


so........anyone got that 1d up for sale?
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