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01/30/2013 10:05:30 PM · #26 |
As a recipient of a few of your longer look comments, and thank you, I await your new technique eagerly.
Keep up the thoughtful and insightful voting and commenting that you do.
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01/30/2013 11:00:05 PM · #27 |
So strange. I was going to say "I almost got a comment by Paul once" but when I went to my comments received, I discovered it was gone. Did you look back at previous comments not marked as helpful before you started this thread, Paul? I had one from you that was "empty" - I've always been curious. It's gone now.
eta - nope, it's still there. Sorry :)
Message edited by author 2013-02-01 21:38:06. |
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01/31/2013 04:32:45 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by Paul:
I definitely won't be commenting on the 1-4s and I'll see whether commenting on all the 7-10s is viable. |
Without commenting on the middle of the road entries that you will be demoting, how do you expect to influence behaviour? (as that seems to be the intent of your actions). It will just seem to us who habitually sit in the middle that there's been a slight increase in troll voting.
Message edited by author 2013-01-31 04:32:56. |
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01/31/2013 05:02:21 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by paynekj:
Originally posted by Paul:
I definitely won't be commenting on the 1-4s and I'll see whether commenting on all the 7-10s is viable. |
Without commenting on the middle of the road entries that you will be demoting, how do you expect to influence behaviour? (as that seems to be the intent of your actions). It will just seem to us who habitually sit in the middle that there's been a slight increase in troll voting. |
Since Paul won't give anymore 5s and 6s there WILL BE a slight increase in troll voting. I consider "Troll Voting" any voting scheme, that deliberately lowers or ups a score just for the sake of differing from a random votes allocation (usually a bell curve).
Must say, I'm disappointed, Paul. I always thought you were one of the honest guys. I hope your conscience gives you a hard time voting on those images you'll find "not offering a good representation of photography as an art form or the talent of the community" (as opposed to voting for their creative, technical, intellectual and emotional merits).
How do you know, what "does the community justice"? Isn't it the community that gets the images on the front page?
[sarcasm tag for Venser] I'll start voting differently from now on, too. I'll only give out 3s, 8s and 9s and comment only on images with an even number of letters in the title. On thursdays, however, I'll only vote 4s and comment on images that have red as the primary color. Fridays I'll stop voting immediately once I come across an image that is blurred or black and white, unless it deserves a 3. So hopefully the community someday will learn that I'm the only one who has a valid opinion on what is a serious attempt to create art and what is solely submitting for fun and virtual ribbons. [/sarcasm] |
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01/31/2013 05:43:30 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by paynekj:
Originally posted by Paul:
I definitely won't be commenting on the 1-4s and I'll see whether commenting on all the 7-10s is viable. |
Without commenting on the middle of the road entries that you will be demoting, how do you expect to influence behaviour? (as that seems to be the intent of your actions). It will just seem to us who habitually sit in the middle that there's been a slight increase in troll voting. |
The only behaviour I expect to influence is my own. In many ways, the split scale is just a discipline for me to decide (for me) 'Do I like it, does it do the community justice' - once I've answered that grouping question I can score within the band. It's really not that different from having a Likert scale with an even number of choices. |
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01/31/2013 06:00:01 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by h2:
Originally posted by paynekj:
Originally posted by Paul:
I definitely won't be commenting on the 1-4s and I'll see whether commenting on all the 7-10s is viable. |
Without commenting on the middle of the road entries that you will be demoting, how do you expect to influence behaviour? (as that seems to be the intent of your actions). It will just seem to us who habitually sit in the middle that there's been a slight increase in troll voting. |
Since Paul won't give anymore 5s and 6s there WILL BE a slight increase in troll voting. I consider "Troll Voting" any voting scheme, that deliberately lowers or ups a score just for the sake of differing from a random votes allocation (usually a bell curve).
Must say, I'm disappointed, Paul. I always thought you were one of the honest guys. I hope your conscience gives you a hard time voting on those images you'll find "not offering a good representation of photography as an art form or the talent of the community" (as opposed to voting for their creative, technical, intellectual and emotional merits).
How do you know, what "does the community justice"? Isn't it the community that gets the images on the front page?
[sarcasm tag for Venser] I'll start voting differently from now on, too. I'll only give out 3s, 8s and 9s and comment only on images with an even number of letters in the title. On thursdays, however, I'll only vote 4s and comment on images that have red as the primary color. Fridays I'll stop voting immediately once I come across an image that is blurred or black and white, unless it deserves a 3. So hopefully the community someday will learn that I'm the only one who has a valid opinion on what is a serious attempt to create art and what is solely submitting for fun and virtual ribbons. [/sarcasm] |
Oliver, I don't disagree with you. It is a misappropriation of the voting scheme. I may find I can't bring myself to actually continue when I try it on for size.
The second point you make is the one that I really agree with you on - you are right, the Front Page is built by the community and perhaps I shouldn't challenge it. But I think, from time to time, alignment with expectation trumps 'quality'. For those who believe that 'alignment with expectation' = 'quality' (in the DPC context), there will be no issue. For me, when I go to, for example, 1x.com and I see the type of image there - it makes me think.
Imagine we, as a community, were going to mount a public exhibition of our best work. Do you believe we only need to look on the Front Page for our material? I don't - and that's at the heart of my thinking. My ribbon winners are not my best images (in my estimation) - how about you?
Is there no part of you that see a challenge theme and begins to factor in 'what will score well?' as opposed to 'what will make a great picture?'? There is definitely a feedback loop in operation, and to further that analogy - feedback loops sometimes lead to distortion.
Cheers
Paul
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01/31/2013 06:21:18 AM · #32 |
Actually, what would be interesting would be to sit with a cup of coffee and go over your voting at the end of a month. Coming to the US any time soon?
Because it is a discussion worth having. |
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01/31/2013 06:46:10 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by Paul:
The second point you make is the one that I really agree with you on - you are right, the Front Page is built by the community and perhaps I shouldn\'t challenge it. But I think, from time to time, alignment with expectation trumps \'quality\'. |
Right. But what makes a \"quality\" image? At DPC the most important part should (IMO) be \"meeting the challenge criteria\" - otherwise it would be just another \"I like my pics so I\'ll show them to the world\" website. Next most important is \"technical excellence\". Unless the image is not extremely OOB while still meeting challenge, the images on the front page rarely leave the shadow of a doubt the photographers knew what they did. Third, the message or emotion carried by the images. In most challenges it will be hard to create something emotional or something meaningful in the short time frame given, especially considered that most of us have photography as a hobby.
That maybe why most ribboning images (including most of mine) aren\'t likely to be hanging in a museum one day.
Originally posted by Paul:
For me, when I go to, for example, 1x.com and I see the type of image there - it makes me think. |
Different system: no pressure in time, no determined topic. Not competitive . Not anonymously judged. More pros. Larger filesize. Basically a Free Study with endless time frame and an unlimited set of ribbons.
Originally posted by Paul:
Imagine we, as a community, were going to mount a public exhibition of our best work. Do you believe we only need to look on the Front Page for our material? I don\'t - and that\'s at the heart of my thinking. My ribbon winners are not my best images (in my estimation) - how about you? |
I certainly don\'t think so; there are hidden gems in most challenges. Some of my images are way overrated; some are (to me) way underrated - but either because they were not understood and that would be my fault or simply because other submissions were superior in \"quality\" (as stated above). Of course simplifying here a bit.
Originally posted by Paul:
Is there no part of you that see a challenge theme and begins to factor in \'what will score well?\' as opposed to \'what will make a great picture?\'? |
I certainly start with \"what will make a great picture\", but then again I have to deal with time, access to props or models, weather, money - as most of us have to. Now to decide: Make compromises, miss the deadline or switch to \"what else would score well\" and try to make THAT a good image. In the end, it is about picking up the camera, creating, learning, competing, having fun (and in my case: selling images). DPC is not a museum.
O.
Message edited by author 2013-01-31 06:46:48. |
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01/31/2013 07:13:01 AM · #34 |
Paul, I'll miss your longer look comments. It was a highlight when I got one of your longer look comments.
Thanks for your contribution to DPC. Looking forward to your future comments and images.
Leo |
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01/31/2013 09:13:56 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Actually, what would be interesting would be to sit with a cup of coffee and go over your voting |
I compared voting with  Venser one time (though not over coffee) and my head still hurts from the experience.
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