Another school shooting - DPChallenge Forums

12/27/2012 12:48:00 PM · #1101

yeah, a buyback program will never work...

//www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-1227-gun-buyback-20121227,0,7293938.story

12/27/2012 12:58:33 PM · #1102

Originally posted by mike_311:

good start

but do we really need to grandfather in all the existing weapons?

They will definitely have to grandfather in all the existing weapons that have been sold. I will not give up my new toy that I bought myself this christmas season....and as far as a buyback....I would sell it for no less than 3 times what I paid for it...This in effect means that it's not for sale.

12/27/2012 03:23:04 PM · #1103

It is possible for the government to buy items of personal property through eminent domain for reasons of public safety. A 2005 case greatly expanded the allowable uses of state sponsored seizure of private assets.

A gun like the Bushmaster, which was used in the Aurora movie theater, the Sandy Hook School and the Webster fireman ambush are prime targets for this sort of action. The courts have loosened up the minimal standards of what is required for seizure ( and "fair compensation" ) of property that is held "against the public good".

Far more likely is tougher regulations to keep all guns, but especially guns like the Bushmaster out of the hands of the insane and people who have killed before. But I am a cynic and think we will need far more innocent blood, and many more of these slaughters before absolute resistance to any possible attempt to fix a system that allows any multiple felon to get his hands on weapons designed to kill people quickly and easily, can be overcome. The day the NRA admits that the solution to too many guns in the wrong hands is not more guns, is the day we might move towards progress.

12/27/2012 03:38:22 PM · #1104

Americans could also follow Israels lead

12/27/2012 03:48:04 PM · #1105

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

Americans could also follow Israels lead

I hope you arent serious.

Israel is under constant attack from outside forces, we dont nor do i wish to live in a war zone, which is what will happen if the NRA gets its wish.

Message edited by author 2012-12-27 15:50:05.

12/27/2012 03:51:18 PM · #1106

Ever been to Israel? Where a small state living under the constant threat of invasion and terrorist threat has lead to universal conscription, where on every corner and every bus you will find uniformed kids with automatic weapons. It is somewhat unnerving to have the kid in the next bus seat doze off and find his automatic weapon slump against your leg. Of course it does cut down on street crime. But I am not sure you can institute a state of continual war footing without an external enemy.

Israel has rejected the NRAs claim of similarity;

Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor spelled it out.

â��Weâ��re fighting terrorism, which comes under very specific geopolitical and military circumstances. This is not something that compares with the situation in the US,â�� Palmor said.

Because it is aimed at preventing terror attacks, Israelâ��s school security system is part of a multi-layered defense strategy that focuses on prevention and doesnâ��t depend on a guy at a gate with a gun.

Unlike in the United States, where the right to bear arms is guaranteed in the Constitutionâ��s Second Amendment, Israelâ��s department of public security considers gun ownership a privilege, not a right. Gun owners in Israel are limited to owning one pistol, and must undergo extensive mental and physical tests before they can receive a weapon, and gun owners are limited to 50 rounds of ammunition per year.

Message edited by author 2012-12-27 15:57:17.

12/27/2012 03:54:37 PM · #1107

lol. i guess Fox news has to come up with another idea to support its lobby base.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

12/27/2012 04:04:00 PM · #1108

Originally posted by mike_311:

lol. i guess Fox news has to come up with another idea to support its lobby base.

Fox didn't come up with it, they are parroting the NRAs line.

"The National Rifle Association responded to the Dec. 14 killing of 20 first-graders and six adults at a Connecticut elementary school by resisting calls for tighter gun control and calling for armed guards and police at schools. On Sunday, the lobbyâ��s chief executive, Wayne LaPierre, invoked his perception of the Israeli school security system to back his proposal.

â��Israel had a whole lot of school shootings until they did one thing: They said, â��Weâ��re going to stop it,â�� and they put armed security in every school and they have not had a problem since then,â�� LaPierre said on the NBC News show â��Meet the Press.â��

Of course the Israelis have not been shy in calling BS on Mr. LaPierre's bogus claims.

Adding a single guard at every American public school would cost between 10 and 20 billion dollars per year. That is quite a burden to the American public.

Message edited by author 2012-12-27 16:09:16.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

12/27/2012 05:41:32 PM · #1109

"What you hope is that under each of those red dots is a law-abiding citizen who's been trained, has a safe, and is in a good mood today."

â�� Dave Ross (from today's CBS network commentary)

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

12/27/2012 07:08:15 PM · #1110

Originally posted by mike_311:

Originally posted by Spork99:

I mentioned some practical changes earlier, but the two sides were too busy shouting to notice.

really, where? all i remember is you talking about airplanes, tools and dildos.

Someone else brought up dildos, but I guess, you, along with everyone else was too busy yelling to pay attention to anything not cheering on one side or the other.

But since you're too busy being snarky:

Originally posted by Spork99 about a week ago:

I'm afraid that the politicians will again make a bunch of ineffective rules that look great to the people who just want "something" done, but really only mean more harassment for people who just want to shoot targets, hunt and defend themselves. Worse, they'll do nothing to keep guns away from people who should not have them.

There's certainly room for improvement in the NICS background check system (it should interface with state criminal databases, but I don't believe it currently does), requiring proper & secure storage at home along with closing the so-called "Gun Show Loophole". I'd be in favor of a firearms classification system, like similar to the one in place, but with more classes and a graduated permitting system that required a greater demonstration of competency and knowledge for purchasing weapons in "higher" classes. (i.e. you want an AR-15 and 30rd mags? sure. you just have to take the classes and show you're not a felon mentally ill or an idiot that keeps sweeping the instructor with his muzzle.)

I see the biggest problems with any measures will be 1) making new requirements that do not represent enough of a barrier to a citizen wishing to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights that the guaranteed right becomes a granted privilege and 2) making sure the requirements and process are not an invasion of privacy.

Message edited by author 2012-12-27 19:14:55.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

12/27/2012 07:18:58 PM · #1111

Originally posted by VitaminB:

Not sure how I feel about this. Newspaper north of New York publishes the names and addresses of all licensed gun owners:
//www.lohud.com/article/20121224/NEWS04/312240045/?nclick_check=1

Interestingly, none of the permit-holding gun owners I know in that area are listed.

Also interesting is that the NRA has effectively painted themselves into a corner. After decades of touting the cuckoo "guns don't kill people, people kill people" line, they CAN'T support gun controlâ�� they have to go for people control... calling for huge mental health registries and armed guards everywhere. Leaving aside the sheer absurdity of asking a government faced with huge budget cuts to pay for security at every school, daycare, playground, soccer game, etc. AND the fact that armed guards at Columbine were useless, we actually have the NRA demanding the very police state that provokes 2nd Amendment hysteria among their members. That's going to prompt the most fanatical wingnuts to buy even more gun... oh, now it makes sense.

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

12/27/2012 07:19:22 PM · #1112

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by mike_311:

Originally posted by Spork99:

I mentioned some practical changes earlier, but the two sides were too busy shouting to notice.

really, where? all i remember is you talking about airplanes, tools and dildos.

Someone else brought up dildos, but I guess, you, along with everyone else was too busy yelling to pay attention to anything not cheering on one side or the other.

it not like you didn't join in the fun, that said your idea probably wasn't particularly interesting if no one stopped to notice. i went back about 20 pages and then got bored.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

12/27/2012 07:42:18 PM · #1113

Originally posted by mike_311:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by mike_311:

Originally posted by Spork99:

I mentioned some practical changes earlier, but the two sides were too busy shouting to notice.

really, where? all i remember is you talking about airplanes, tools and dildos.

Someone else brought up dildos, but I guess, you, along with everyone else was too busy yelling to pay attention to anything not cheering on one side or the other.

it not like you didn't join in the fun, that said your idea probably wasn't particularly interesting if no one stopped to notice. i went back about 20 pages and then got bored.

No, it's not as interesting as your fantasies about gun bans and changing the Constitution or those of armed guards and teachers packing heat, but far more practical and likely.

I guess you can go back to yelling with the other idiots and playing with your dildo.

Message edited by author 2012-12-27 19:43:54.

12/27/2012 09:22:05 PM · #1114

A USA Today/Gallup Poll released this week showed that while 58 percent of Americans now say they favor stricter gun laws in the aftermath of the shootings at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., 51 percent said they oppose a ban on assault weapons.

I would love to hear the logic of the 7% who are fine with assault weapons but want stricter gun laws.

12/27/2012 10:08:40 PM · #1115

Originally posted by Spork99:

I guess you can go back to yelling with the other idiots and playing with your dildo.

it appears that not only do you have nothing further to contribute, you don't to care to do so any longer which is great for the rest of us.

12/27/2012 10:11:46 PM · #1116

Originally posted by BrennanOB:

I would love to hear the logic of the 7% who are fine with assault weapons but want stricter gun laws.

and the 1% that don't have any opinion at all...

curiously 51% percent don't want a ban on assault weapons??? i could see that many not favoring a complete ban on guns, but why the hell do people not wish to get rid of assault weapons. they are called assault weapons for a reason.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

12/27/2012 10:26:27 PM · #1117

Originally posted by mike_311:

Originally posted by BrennanOB:

I would love to hear the logic of the 7% who are fine with assault weapons but want stricter gun laws.

and the 1% that don't have any opinion at all...

curiously 51% percent don't want a ban on assault weapons??? i could see that many not favoring a complete ban on guns, but why the hell do people not wish to get rid of assault weapons. they are called assault weapons for a reason.

I for one am against banning assault weapons....All they are, are semi-automaticweapons...Not an automatic.(those are reserved to military or law enforcement). A person can go down right now and buy a semi anything. I could do a ton of damage with a semi-auto .22...Well actually if you look at ballistics I much prefer to be shot by a 5.56 mm that a .22...a 5.56 will more than likely go all the way through...a .22 is a slow round and if it hits a bone it will ricochet around the body

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

12/27/2012 10:49:31 PM · #1118

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

I for one am against banning assault weapons....All they are, are semi-automaticweapons...Not an automatic.(those are reserved to military or law enforcement). A person can go down right now and buy a semi anything. I could do a ton of damage with a semi-auto .22...Well actually if you look at ballistics I much prefer to be shot by a 5.56 mm that a .22...a 5.56 will more than likely go all the way through...a .22 is a slow round and if it hits a bone it will ricochet around the body

Didn't you (by the boldedpart) just completely undermine your original premise/statement?

San Francisco is considering a ban on hollow-point bullets (I presume sale to non-law enforcement/military) ...

Message edited by author 2012-12-27 22:50:44.

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

12/28/2012 12:25:01 AM · #1119

The only thing is "hollow points" are not available for the m-16/m4 (ar-15) A .22 is not a hollow point...infact, they are a rim fire round....I have never heard of a hollow point .22 . However I can buy 50 rounds right now for $7.00...That is US dollars

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

12/28/2012 12:59:38 AM · #1120

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

....I have never heard of a hollow point .22 .

"22 Short

The common .22 rimfire Short cartridge dates from the period of the American Civil War. It was first used in a S&W pocket pistol introduced in 1857 and it is the oldest cartridge still being loaded today. The .22 Short is used mainly as an inexpensive, quiet round for practice by the recreational shooter. It is also used in pocket pistols and mini-revolvers, as well as in international and Olympic rapid-fire pistol competition. The Short is available in target, standard velocity and high velocity versions. There is also a .22 short blank for use in starting pistols.

Bullets are lead (usually coated with grease or wax or copper plated), in round nose or hollow point styles. The standard velocity .22 short launches a 29 grain bullet at 1,045 fps with 70 ft. lbs. of energy from a 22" rifle barrel. As a hunting round, the high velocity hollow point Short is useful only for tiny pests like mice, rats and small birds. Stick with the Long Rifle cartridge for small game hunting.

.22 Long Rifle

The .22 Long Rifle is an old cartridge developed by Peters Cartridge in 1887. It first appeared in Marlin and Stevens single shot rifles; the Marlin Model 1891 lever action, the predecessor of today's Model 39A, rifle was the first repeater chambered for the cartridge. It was quickly adopted by other rifle makers and also adapted to handguns. It is by far the most popular and useful of all the .22 rimfire cartridges.

The .22 LR is the world's best selling rifle and pistol cartridge. It is available in target, standard velocity, high velocity and hyper velocity loads, with either 40 grain solid lead or 32-40 grain lead hollow-point bullets. Practically every type of rifle and handgun is offered in .22 LR and there have even been smooth bore .22 LR shotguns chambered for the rather obscure .22 LR shot cartridge."

//www.chuckhawks.com/22_rimfire_cartridges.htm

Plenty of other references google up.

Message edited by author 2012-12-28 00:59:54.

12/28/2012 01:06:43 AM · #1121

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by BrennanOB:
So this is your contribution? "You are all assholes and should shut up"? Come on you can do better.
Enlighten us, point us to the middle ground. I would love to hear a workable solution.

ROFL..

I'm not honestly convinced that he can do better, since this is really pretty consistently his position on a wide variety of debates.

I would, however, welcome disproof.

...perhaps you could share some of your wisdom with us... then all of us could give thanks.

Ray

Dude, have you not been reading this thread?

I'll sum it up:

It's stupid to ban guns. Try to focus on the causes of the violence, since you're VERY unlikely to stop anyone who is willing to die, no matter what measures you take.

How about this weapon? Anyone think that maybe a ten gallon can of gas could easily cause a huge number of casualties? (especially if it was combined with a super-soaker)

12/28/2012 01:07:54 AM · #1122

Originally posted by Venser:

Originally posted by mike_311:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by mike_311:
the second amendment was an amendment, why can't we just amend the constitution again?

Let's crack down on those pesky people running their mouths too and get rid of the 1st too. Hell, things would go a lot smoother if we just did away with the whole damn thing.

well it seems the gun advocates would rather do away with that than lose their trusty guns.

//www.politico.com/story/2012/12/anti-piers-petition-tops-60k-signers-85472.html?hp=r3

I guess its all that important to them.
You didn't hear them in outrage when the Patriot Act was taking away their 1st, 4th, and 5th rights either. I remember hearing a lot of "if you did nothing wrong you have nothing to fear." The irony as an outsider tickles me inside.

Oh no.. I was quite pissed about that, and have mentioned it multiple times in this very thread.

12/28/2012 01:10:54 AM · #1123

Originally posted by BrennanOB:

Easy.

Assault rifles are largely cosmetic (at least under the '94 ban)...

A shotgun is equally lethal.

12/28/2012 01:12:55 AM · #1124

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

Exactly how much shooting do you do? This is a huge gaff.