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 12/20/2012 06:02:33 PM · #1
Hi

OK, it took me longer to get a minimal editing image uploaded, than most expert editing :-). I think I shot about 200 pics - seriously! Good thing its not film ;-).

I was careful to use Irfanview for the challenge so not to contravene any rules. However, I couldn't resist "having a look" at what the image could have looked like with even just a little more editing ... and all 10 of those in close consideration would have been SO much better. Just "brighter, more contrasty" (is that a word?).

So, here is my question: How can you get that "look" in camera? I did have several different exposures, and that wasn't the secret. I shot at different times of the day (the same scene), and although the morning may perhaps have been better, it wasn't that either. What do you have to do to get a "perfect" picture in camera? Or should the question realy be, what does an editing program actually do?

And just to clarify, I didn't do much with the images. Used "sharpen" with the unsharp mask (OK, I remember reading the thread on minimal editing and that there are different "intrapolations" for sharpening ... whatever. .. the sharpening isn't what really bugged me, its when I even used such a silly thing as "I am feeling lucky" in Picasa that the image just became almost 3D compared to the original. I want to know why.

Anybody here who can explain this?

Thank you :-)

Sorry, can't upload a sample, because I did enter the challenge.
 12/20/2012 06:10:40 PM · #2
I think the secret is to use the "Picture Style" feature in your camera's menu. Sounds like your image may have benefitted from a bit more in camera contrast. In general, I look at the histogram a lot when doing this kind of exercise. After contrast, I like to add some saturation, but it's best to be not push too hard.
 12/20/2012 06:29:16 PM · #3
Try taking a flat-looking landscape and apply "high-radius UnSharp Mask" to it. For a DPC-entry sized image (600-800 pixels) try these settings in Photoshop:
Amount: 15%
Radius: 50 pixels
Threshold: 0

Here are a couple of quick examples I was able to make: the right side of each image has had USM at the above settings applied twice to the right half ... you an adjust the first two values for different images. These images are unadjusted other than resizing and the USM filter ... normally I'd apply it after making other tone and contrast adjustments, almost always with Curves.



Final edited image:

Message edited by author 2012-12-20 18:35:13.
 12/20/2012 06:41:40 PM · #4
I would agree with Hahn. DSLRs have multiple ways of converting the RAW photo they captured into JPGs and you can choose which you would like it to use to include different amounts of contrast, sharpening, saturation etc. They will all be global and non-customizable and for the most part subtle, but should help make the in-camera image look more polished.
 12/20/2012 06:57:45 PM · #5
The thing with minimal is its shoot and hope for the best. So any editing, even "I feel lucky" is going to improve it. You are allowing your camera to control and edit the shot.

I can't fathom why people enjoy it so much.
 12/20/2012 07:06:52 PM · #6
Originally posted by mike_311:
The thing with minimal is its shoot and hope for the best. So any editing, even "I feel lucky" is going to improve it. You are allowing your camera to control and edit the shot.

I can't fathom why people enjoy it so much.

Because it is NOT "hope for the best" — it is to understand what the camera is capable of, and to predictively optimize shooting conditions to accentuate its capabilities and mitigate its limitations.

To get that "pop" in a Minimal image you will mostly need lots of light, and a subject suited to a brightly-lit scene.
 12/20/2012 07:19:25 PM · #7
Originally posted by mike_311:
The thing with minimal is its shoot and hope for the best.
I tether my laptop to my camera so there's no guessing anymore. I know exactly what it looks like full screen.
 12/20/2012 08:49:43 PM · #8
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Because it is NOT "hope for the best" — it is to understand what the camera is capable of, and to predictively optimize shooting conditions to accentuate its capabilities and mitigate its limitations.



whatever, i prefer not to play such silly games :)
 12/20/2012 09:13:47 PM · #9
Originally posted by mike_311:
whatever, i prefer not to play such silly games :)

There's nothing "silly" about this "game". Being familiar enough with your gear and your medium to optimize results straight out of the camera is an extremely valuable skill in the real world of professional photography.
 12/20/2012 09:45:18 PM · #10
Originally posted by hahn23:
I think the secret is to use the "Picture Style" feature in your camera's menu. Sounds like your image may have benefitted from a bit more in camera contrast. In general, I look at the histogram a lot when doing this kind of exercise. After contrast, I like to add some saturation, but it's best to be not push too hard.


Originally posted by GeneralE:
Because it is NOT "hope for the best" — it is to understand what the camera is capable of, and to predictively optimize shooting conditions to accentuate its capabilities and mitigate its limitations.

To get that "pop" in a Minimal image you will mostly need lots of light, and a subject suited to a brightly-lit scene.


Originally posted by Bear_Music:
There's nothing "silly" about this "game". Being familiar enough with your gear and your medium to optimize results straight out of the camera is an extremely valuable skill in the real world of professional photography.


I took the time to read the article that Richard shared and after reading that, I couldn't agree more with The General and The Bear. The camera in your hand is your chosen tool to create your artistic work. Knowing how to use that tool is of the utmost importance.

I believe with the Canon Picture Styles, you can customize a style for each instance of subject matter and light situations, preload those settings into your camera and head out to shoot your chosen subject for the day. Programming your picture style to get an acceptable image out of the camera is a little like choosing the right film. You can go grab some Fuji Provia to shoot your portraits or you can choose some Fuji Velvia and go shoot landscapes. Each film has different ASA values depending on the lighting situation.

12/21/2012 01:27:55 AM · #11
Originally posted by hahn23:
I think the secret is to use the "Picture Style" feature in your camera's menu. Sounds like your image may have benefitted from a bit more in camera contrast. In general, I look at the histogram a lot when doing this kind of exercise. After contrast, I like to add some saturation, but it's best to be not push too hard.


Richard, thank you so much for this. I see myself back at my scene trying out all the settings!
When I checked on my camera (because of course my first reaction was that MY camera hasn't got that ;-)), I even remembered someone telling me when I got the camera about this setting and, rightfully so, she said at the time not to worry about that for the time being. So I didn't worry about it and .... forgot completely to ever check it out again!

To add insult to injury, I even like using those setting when I edit from RAW - not always, but it does sometimes give very nice results.

Do you know, can you adjust each setting individually in "custom setting"? - what I mean is, can you say: sharpness + 7, stauration +1, contrast -1, color tone -2, whatever? I understand you can download pre-set settings, but can you do your own in camera?

I mean that would almost be like editing anyway, wouldn't it?
And yes, I can see what Venser means about having the laptop permanently attached to the camera :-).
... and you really call this "shoot and hope for the best"? ;-)

So again, this was "minimal editing"? ;-)

Thanks again for yet another important lesson
 12/21/2012 01:30:06 AM · #12


Do you know, can you adjust each setting individually in "custom setting"? - what I mean is, can you say: sharpness + 7, stauration +1, contrast -1, color tone -2, whatever? I understand you can download pre-set settings, but can you do your own in camera?

Cancel that question, I just found how to do it :-)

12/21/2012 02:16:29 AM · #13
A worthwhile review of camera features. My Pentax allows you to set all these parameters, AND it gives you a preview as you set it using the last picture you took, provided you haven't just turned the camera on. No live view on the K200, so that might be different.

For me it is all about the silly games.
 12/21/2012 07:47:39 AM · #14
Originally posted by kasaba:
Do you know, can you adjust each setting individually in "custom setting"? - what I mean is, can you say: sharpness + 7, stauration +1, contrast -1, color tone -2, whatever?

And all this is pretty much exactly the point of minimal editing: it teaches what we call "previsualization", the ability to have the end product in mind and dialed in before the shutter button is pressed.
 12/21/2012 07:55:01 AM · #15
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by kasaba:
Do you know, can you adjust each setting individually in "custom setting"? - what I mean is, can you say: sharpness + 7, stauration +1, contrast -1, color tone -2, whatever?

And all this is pretty much exactly the point of minimal editing: it teaches what we call "previsualization", the ability to have the end product in mind and dialed in before the shutter button is pressed.

While Minimal Editing should teach me this valuable lesson, it has yet to do so. I can be a little slow. I need to learn to use custom settings before entering my next Minimal Editing challenge.
 12/21/2012 08:00:56 AM · #16
Originally posted by kasaba:


...Used "sharpen" with the unsharp mask...


Oops.
 12/21/2012 08:40:29 AM · #17
Originally posted by Paul:
Originally posted by kasaba:


...Used "sharpen" with the unsharp mask...


Oops.


I thought that too but wasn't game to say anything...
 12/21/2012 08:40:54 AM · #18
The other thing it's taught me is that I'm crap at cleaning sensors.
 12/21/2012 03:53:10 PM · #19
Bryan Peterson on How to Use the Rule (or Suggestion) of Thirds in Photos in the NY Times
 12/21/2012 04:23:28 PM · #20
So accordiong to the Minimal Rule Set, I thought that the use of USM was not allowed?

You May:
sharpen your entry using your editing software’s “sharpen” or equivalent option. The use of customizable sharpening tools, such as Unsharp Mask, is not allowed.

The challenge rules can and are at times confusing. Which is why I try and avoid the advance and expert challenges. Scared That I may get the rules wrong :)

Message edited by author 2012-12-21 16:23:45.
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