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12/20/2012 12:23:35 AM · #826 |
Washington ΓΆ€” President Barack Obama is launching an administration-wide effort to curb gun violence, underscoring the growing political consensus over tightening gun restrictions following the horrific massacre at a Connecticut elementary school.
Obama is tasking Vice President Joe Biden, a longtime gun control advocate, with spearheading the effort. In remarks from the White House on Wednesday, Obama will outline a process for pursuing policy changes following the school shooting, though he is not expected to call for specific measures.
The president has vowed to use "whatever power this office holds" to safeguard the nation's children after Friday's shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Conn. Twenty children and six adults were killed at the school by a gunman carrying an arsenal of ammunition and a high-powered, military-style rifle.
The White House sees some urgency in formulating a policy response to the shooting, even as Obama and his top aides are consumed with averting the "fiscal cliff" before tax hikes and spending cuts take effect in January. The incident has prompted several congressional gun rights supporters to consider new legislation to control firearms, and there is some fear that their willingness to engage could fade as the shock and sorrow over the Newtown shooting eases.
Many pro-gun lawmakers also have called for a greater focus on mental health issues and the impact of violent entertainment. Obama also prefers a holistic approach, with aides saying stricter gun laws alone are not the answer.
"It's a complex problem that requires more than one solution," White House spokesman Jay Carney said Tuesday. "It calls for not only re-examining our gun laws and how well we enforce them, but also for engaging mental health professionals, law enforcement officials, educators, parents and communities to find those solutions."
Still, much of the immediate focus after the shooting is on gun control, an issue that has been dormant in Washington for years. Obama expended little political capital on gun issues during his first term, despite several mass shootings, including a movie theater attack in Aurora, Colo., in the midst of this year's presidential campaign.
The White House has begun to signal that Obama may be more proactive on gun issues following the murders of the elementary school youngsters, ages 6 and 7.
Carney said Obama was "actively supportive" of legislation to reinstate a ban on assault-style weapons that expired in 2004. The president long has supported a ban, but exerted little effort to get it passed during his first term. Obama also would support closing a gun show loophole allowing people to buy arms from private dealers without background checks and would be interested in legislation limiting high-capacity ammunition magazines, Carney said.
The policy process Obama was announcing Wednesday was expected to include input from the departments of Justice, Education, and Health and Human Services. The heads of those agencies met with Obama at the White House on Monday. |
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12/20/2012 12:25:51 AM · #827 |
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Originally posted by Melethia:
One of the saddest points that is being missed here is the fact that apparently a VERY large contingent of the US population truly believes their government is out to get them. And that their fellow man is out to get them. It's quite sad to realize so much hate, fear, distrust, and apprehension rules the lives of so many. |
Very sad indeed Deb :( |
I have that distrust in the government, corporations, and any other sorts of groups with dispersed responsibility, whose actions can kill hundreds and yet no one is held accountable. Yes, I have a lot of distrust. A LOT. Individuals however, I try to give the benefit of the doubt.
But I don't let the distrust rule my life. I don't carry a gun. I want to grow my own food and have my own land. Live life on my terms as much as possible and mostly ignore the rest.
How many people that tote a gun 24/7 neglect their own health and die of heart attacks before ever needing to fire it? It's just silly.
Just for some perspective:
Heart disease: 599,413
Cancer: 567,628
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 137,353
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,842
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 118,021
Alzheimer's disease: 79,003
Diabetes: 68,705
Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,692
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 48,935
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 36,909
Attacks by assailants don't even hit the top ten.
We are killing ourselves with our lifestyles, or by our own hands and then talking about toting guns around on the off chance that we'll encounter an attacker. Spend BILLIONS on war to KILL others but piss and moan over universal health care paying to HEAL others.
Can we not see as a society how backwards that is?
How about we teach teachers about nutrition, not locking and loading.
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12/20/2012 12:27:23 AM · #828 |
I've been reading this but haven't said anything yet, so I must say to start with how immensely saddened I am by the Connecticut tragedy. My heart goes out to everyone involved, either directly or peripherally. I can't imagine having to live through something like this.
I just want to add some of my own thoughts on this matter. While making a more caring society and giving better care to the mentally ill are noble aspirations, and hopefully will become more than just aspirations, there will ALWAYS be some maladjusted/deranged/psychopathic individuals, and if, when their time comes to go off the deep end they have easy access to high powered, high capacity weaponry there will ALWAYS be potential for large scale tragedies.
The Port Arthur massacre (previously mentioned in this thread) was the tipping point in Australia which brought in much tighter gun control (and our controls were already tighter than in the US). It wasn't our first massacre but it was by far our worst (in modern times). My husband still owns a rifle (registered, safely stored)to hunt rabbits with. It isn't the one (registered but not quite as securely stored) that he had prior to the buy back scheme but it will still kill rabbits. It would still kill people too if he had that inclination, but not quickly in mass numbers. My point is that tighter gun controls don't have to be the end of guns entirely, but the rules make it harder for misadventure and mayhem. There are still criminals killing people with guns here, (usually unregistered and illegally held) but on the whole it is highly likely that the new laws have saved lives.
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12/20/2012 12:31:39 AM · #829 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by GAP2012:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by GAP2012:
there are many more psycopaths in government and at the heads of corporations as there are on the streets weilding weapons of any kind, but they are looked upto as people to aspire too... that isnt exposed and they are not locked up accordingly nor weeded out and your absolutely right its bandied about as a word just like its an everyday occurance! |
Nope.. Those are sociopaths. |
wrong!!! you can have a psychopath who isnt a serial killer or goes weilding a gun but has the exact same genetic code and patterns of the other but still not weild a physical weapon! sorry but thats a missinterpretation! |
We must be speaking a different language entirely (I realize you are translating, and you are doing fine at it mostly)..
I don't believe that a psychopath could ever successfully operate in government or in the corporate world. Sociopaths however are VERY successful in both realms (and most others as well... Arguably it IS a good thing to be a Sociopath..) |
quote:
A sociopath is one who is affected with a personality disorder marked by antisocial behavior. A psychopath is a person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy or remorse.
recent research done by a geneticist and pschologist in americas top serial killer prison and holding psychopaths recently tested large corporate CEO's and found a number of them had not only the tell tale signs exhibited and included missing empathy and the warrior gene! psychopaths in fact mirror the illusion of empathy... a shy retiring loner who looks unhappy even if you are happy is not mirroring empathy... and we dont even know what his state of mind was or whether he was very ill or just having an accute breakdown which you or anyone can have at any moment with the right stressor and circumstance forced upon you! |
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12/20/2012 12:32:46 AM · #830 |
Originally posted by GAP2012:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by sfalice:
Forgive me, 'cause I've lost track.
Is it just  Spork99 that wants to make guns unconditionally available to every man, woman and child in the United States?
Or is that also the position of some of the others?
Are there any conditions whatsoever (other than being a bad guy) that would suggest restrictions? |
When did I say any such thing?
I just can't believe that people believe that guns possess human qualities like being "evil" or that they can have intent. That's like believing that your refrigerator loves you. Nonsense.
Then there's the ridiculously arrogant "ban all guns...period" or the "make the bullets cost $10000 each" group that see no need for anyone to have a gun because they don't want or need one in theirs so naturally no one does. They're not interested in seeing if any meaningful reforms are possible, they just run about telling everyone the sky is falling. It's not.
The 1994 Assault weapons ban was a joke because the only thing it really did was drive up the price of pre-ban guns and large capacity magazines. It banned certain guns based on how they looked, so it just made the "scary looking" guns illegal, which was just plain stupid. It was the product of politicians, most of whom wrote the law without knowing diddly about guns trying to appease a portion of the public that didn't know any more, but felt better because something had been done and the scary guns were now gone. It was pretty much useless.
I'm afraid that the politicians will again make a bunch of ineffective rules that look great to the people who just want "something" done, but really only mean more harassment for people who just want to shoot targets, hunt and defend themselves. Worse, they'll do nothing to keep guns away from people who should not have them.
There's certainly room for improvement in the NICS background check system (it should interface with state criminal databases, but I don't believe it currently does), requiring proper & secure storage at home along with closing the so-called "Gun Show Loophole". I'd be in favor of a firearms classification system, like similar to the one in place, but with more classes and a graduated permitting system that required a greater demonstration of competency and knowledge for purchasing weapons in "higher" classes. (i.e. you want an AR-15 and 30rd mags? sure. you just have to take the classes and show you're not a felon mentally ill or an idiot that keeps sweeping the instructor with his muzzle.)
I see the biggest problems with any measures will be 1) making new requirements that do not represent enough of a barrier to a citizen wishing to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights that the guaranteed right becomes a granted privilege and 2) making sure the requirements and process are not an invasion of privacy. |
thats right keep quotting that ridiculous 2nd amendment.... human rights! |
I'm just predicting what the issues will be with implementing a changes. People don't have to like the 2nd Amendment, but, regardless, it's there and as a guarantee of certain rights, it presents hurdles to reform that otherwise would not be there.
Message edited by author 2012-12-20 00:35:22. |
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12/20/2012 12:33:56 AM · #831 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Originally posted by Melethia:
One of the saddest points that is being missed here is the fact that apparently a VERY large contingent of the US population truly believes their government is out to get them. And that their fellow man is out to get them. It's quite sad to realize so much hate, fear, distrust, and apprehension rules the lives of so many. |
Very sad indeed Deb :( |
I have that distrust in the government, corporations, and any other sorts of groups with dispersed responsibility, whose actions can kill hundreds and yet no one is held accountable. Yes, I have a lot of distrust. A LOT. Individuals however, I try to give the benefit of the doubt.
But I don't let the distrust rule my life. I don't carry a gun. I want to grow my own food and have my own land. Live life on my terms as much as possible and mostly ignore the rest.
How many people that tote a gun 24/7 neglect their own health and die of heart attacks before ever needing to fire it? It's just silly.
Just for some perspective:
Heart disease: 599,413
Cancer: 567,628
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 137,353
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,842
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 118,021
Alzheimer's disease: 79,003
Diabetes: 68,705
Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,692
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 48,935
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 36,909
Attacks by assailants don't even hit the top ten.
We are killing ourselves with our lifestyles, or by our own hands and then talking about toting guns around on the off chance that we'll encounter an attacker. Spend BILLIONS on war to KILL others but piss and moan over universal health care paying to HEAL others.
Can we not see as a society how backwards that is?
How about we teach teachers about nutrition, not locking and loading. |
The woman makes great sense.
I agree 100% that this is the real perspective on this issue.
Unfortunately, that's not how the public and the politicians have decided to approach this. Our rights are being eroded, this is only another brick in the wall.... Yet, make no mistake that every brick is important in a building as fragile as freedom.
Message edited by author 2012-12-20 00:37:28. |
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12/20/2012 12:34:46 AM · #832 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Originally posted by Melethia:
One of the saddest points that is being missed here is the fact that apparently a VERY large contingent of the US population truly believes their government is out to get them. And that their fellow man is out to get them. It's quite sad to realize so much hate, fear, distrust, and apprehension rules the lives of so many. |
Very sad indeed Deb :( |
I have that distrust in the government, corporations, and any other sorts of groups with dispersed responsibility, whose actions can kill hundreds and yet no one is held accountable. Yes, I have a lot of distrust. A LOT. Individuals however, I try to give the benefit of the doubt.
But I don't let the distrust rule my life. I don't carry a gun. I want to grow my own food and have my own land. Live life on my terms as much as possible and mostly ignore the rest.
How many people that tote a gun 24/7 neglect their own health and die of heart attacks before ever needing to fire it? It's just silly.
Just for some perspective:
Heart disease: 599,413
Cancer: 567,628
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 137,353
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,842
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 118,021
Alzheimer's disease: 79,003
Diabetes: 68,705
Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,692
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 48,935
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 36,909
Attacks by assailants don't even hit the top ten.
We are killing ourselves with our lifestyles, or by our own hands and then talking about toting guns around on the off chance that we'll encounter an attacker. Spend BILLIONS on war to KILL others but piss and moan over universal health care paying to HEAL others.
Can we not see as a society how backwards that is?
How about we teach teachers about nutrition, not locking and loading. |
again +1 |
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12/20/2012 12:36:47 AM · #833 |
Originally posted by GAP2012:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by GAP2012:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by GAP2012:
there are many more psycopaths in government and at the heads of corporations as there are on the streets weilding weapons of any kind, but they are looked upto as people to aspire too... that isnt exposed and they are not locked up accordingly nor weeded out and your absolutely right its bandied about as a word just like its an everyday occurance! |
Nope.. Those are sociopaths. |
wrong!!! you can have a psychopath who isnt a serial killer or goes weilding a gun but has the exact same genetic code and patterns of the other but still not weild a physical weapon! sorry but thats a missinterpretation! |
We must be speaking a different language entirely (I realize you are translating, and you are doing fine at it mostly)..
I don't believe that a psychopath could ever successfully operate in government or in the corporate world. Sociopaths however are VERY successful in both realms (and most others as well... Arguably it IS a good thing to be a Sociopath..) |
quote:
A sociopath is one who is affected with a personality disorder marked by antisocial behavior. A psychopath is a person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy or remorse.
recent research done by a geneticist and pschologist in americas top serial killer prison and holding psychopaths recently tested large corporate CEO's and found a number of them had not only the tell tale signs exhibited and included missing empathy and the warrior gene! psychopaths in fact mirror the illusion of empathy... a shy retiring loner who looks unhappy even if you are happy is not mirroring empathy... and we dont even know what his state of mind was or whether he was very ill or just having an accute breakdown which you or anyone can have at any moment with the right stressor and circumstance forced upon you! |
Monica, I'm actually asking mental health questions now... Is this guy full of shit? Or is this the correct take on the terms? |
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12/20/2012 12:47:19 AM · #834 |
Wow. Just wow. Really? If this is the way people think of their "government" then perhaps the Mayan apocalypse is a good thing. Do folks not realize that their "government" is their next door neighbor? The guy they went to high school with? And average Joe working a 9 to 5, hoping to go somewhere nice on vacation? The vast majority of Americans don't want guns taken away; polls clearly say so. And seriously, how would you get the liberal media to go along?
I guess everyone really is out to get everyone else. No one has any compassion, any care for fellow human beings at all. Bring it on, Mayans. I'm done. I needn't be in this kind of world anymore.
Message edited by author 2012-12-20 00:47:54. |
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12/20/2012 12:47:51 AM · #835 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Monica, I'm actually asking mental health questions now... Is this guy full of shit? Or is this the correct take on the terms? |
Humm... Boxing and categorizing disorders is not my cup of tea, and for the most part is still wildly debated because the reality is, people don't fit neatly in boxes. Green is not green is not green. It might be green and yellow mixed, or maybe a splash of blue, or maybe such a dark green it's almost black.
And really, I'm not too concerned with it. To answer your question, nothing he wrote seemed off- base to me. Here is an in depth on psychopath vs. sociopath which makes it seem all nice and tidy but even that could be debated. |
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12/20/2012 12:49:15 AM · #836 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Monica, I'm actually asking mental health questions now... Is this guy full of shit? Or is this the correct take on the terms? |
im happy for that question to be asked... absolutely..
here is the link to just another quick related definition and information on the two and their signs, by all means go have a look its atypical of many others and was upon reading just now from what i know and have seen and read before pretty straight forward if your unsure on the difference
//relationshipvision.com/article/revisiting-the-age-old-case-of-diagnostic-confusion-sociopath-vs-psychopath |
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12/20/2012 12:50:30 AM · #837 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Wow. Just wow. Really? If this is the way people think of their "government" then perhaps the Mayan apocalypse is a good thing. Do folks not realize that their "government" is their next door neighbor? The guy they went to high school with? And average Joe working a 9 to 5, hoping to go somewhere nice on vacation? The vast majority of Americans don't want guns taken away; polls clearly say so. And seriously, how would you get the liberal media to go along?
I guess everyone really is out to get everyone else. No one has any compassion, any care for fellow human beings at all. Bring it on, Mayans. I'm done. I needn't be in this kind of world anymore. |
Not supporting that particular conspiracy theory. Just a general note on the Govt. being people; People act differently according to the situation, level of accountability, peer pressure, etc. Many experiments have demonstrated you can make an average, healthy person do unthinkable things under the "right" circumstances. |
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12/20/2012 12:52:26 AM · #838 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Wow. Just wow. Really? If this is the way people think of their "government" then perhaps the Mayan apocalypse is a good thing. Do folks not realize that their "government" is their next door neighbor? The guy they went to high school with? And average Joe working a 9 to 5, hoping to go somewhere nice on vacation? The vast majority of Americans don't want guns taken away; polls clearly say so. And seriously, how would you get the liberal media to go along?
I guess everyone really is out to get everyone else. No one has any compassion, any care for fellow human beings at all. Bring it on, Mayans. I'm done. I needn't be in this kind of world anymore. |
I really HATE to use the N-word, but you do realize that some of the worst things in history occurred because average Joes, who were neighbors that people went to high school with, who just worked their 9-5.
Hell, I work in government a lot of the time - and almost all the folks I know are WONDERFUL people. But that doesn't mean that they can't make huge mistakes collectively.
Message edited by author 2012-12-20 00:52:37. |
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12/20/2012 12:52:50 AM · #839 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Cory:
Monica, I'm actually asking mental health questions now... Is this guy full of shit? Or is this the correct take on the terms? |
Humm... Boxing and categorizing disorders is not my cup of tea, and for the most part is still wildly debated because the reality is, people don't fit neatly in boxes. Green is not green is not green. It might be green and yellow mixed, or maybe a splash of blue, or maybe such a dark green it's almost black.
And really, I'm not too concerned with it. To answer your question, nothing he wrote seemed off- base to me. Here is an in depth on psychopath vs. sociopath which makes it seem all nice and tidy but even that could be debated. |
+1 i dont like labelling either but for all intents and purposes of this particular discussion it seemed necessary to put into terms that would be better explained by a generally held list of quantifiable traits of each... sorry Monica, i have dealings with the mental health system and know many with illnesses and i too hate how society lables and points at it as a cause...without knowing what theyre talking about... |
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12/20/2012 12:54:22 AM · #840 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Cory:
Monica, I'm actually asking mental health questions now... Is this guy full of shit? Or is this the correct take on the terms? |
Humm... Boxing and categorizing disorders is not my cup of tea, and for the most part is still wildly debated because the reality is, people don't fit neatly in boxes. Green is not green is not green. It might be green and yellow mixed, or maybe a splash of blue, or maybe such a dark green it's almost black.
And really, I'm not too concerned with it. To answer your question, nothing he wrote seemed off- base to me. Here is an in depth on psychopath vs. sociopath which makes it seem all nice and tidy but even that could be debated. |
Funny you posted that. That was exactly the website I was using for a reference.
His definition doesn't even come close to agreeing. But I suppose, as you said - it's effectively a meaninglessly broad term, which is disagreed upon by many.
Which... LOL. Makes me wonder why the heck you objected to people using it in the first place. |
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12/20/2012 12:54:58 AM · #841 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Melethia:
Wow. Just wow. Really? If this is the way people think of their "government" then perhaps the Mayan apocalypse is a good thing. Do folks not realize that their "government" is their next door neighbor? The guy they went to high school with? And average Joe working a 9 to 5, hoping to go somewhere nice on vacation? The vast majority of Americans don't want guns taken away; polls clearly say so. And seriously, how would you get the liberal media to go along?
I guess everyone really is out to get everyone else. No one has any compassion, any care for fellow human beings at all. Bring it on, Mayans. I'm done. I needn't be in this kind of world anymore. |
Not supporting that particular conspiracy theory. Just a general note on the Govt. being people; People act differently according to the situation, level of accountability, peer pressure, etc. Many experiments have demonstrated you can make an average, healthy person do unthinkable things under the "right" circumstances. |
+1
it only takes one or more stressors to put another human being in that position and that can be financial, peer pressure, social, medical, fear or anything to push people to anything! totally agree |
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12/20/2012 12:55:54 AM · #842 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Cory:
Monica, I'm actually asking mental health questions now... Is this guy full of shit? Or is this the correct take on the terms? |
Humm... Boxing and categorizing disorders is not my cup of tea, and for the most part is still wildly debated because the reality is, people don't fit neatly in boxes. Green is not green is not green. It might be green and yellow mixed, or maybe a splash of blue, or maybe such a dark green it's almost black.
And really, I'm not too concerned with it. To answer your question, nothing he wrote seemed off- base to me. Here is an in depth on psychopath vs. sociopath which makes it seem all nice and tidy but even that could be debated. |
Funny you posted that. That was exactly the website I was using for a reference.
His definition doesn't even come close to agreeing. But I suppose, as you said - it's effectively a meaninglessly broad term, which is disagreed upon by many.
Which... LOL. Makes me wonder why the heck you objected to people using it in the first place. |
Well because there is not fitting perfectly, vs. not fitting AT ALL. |
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12/20/2012 12:56:14 AM · #843 |
Originally posted by GAP2012:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Cory:
Monica, I'm actually asking mental health questions now... Is this guy full of shit? Or is this the correct take on the terms? |
Humm... Boxing and categorizing disorders is not my cup of tea, and for the most part is still wildly debated because the reality is, people don't fit neatly in boxes. Green is not green is not green. It might be green and yellow mixed, or maybe a splash of blue, or maybe such a dark green it's almost black.
And really, I'm not too concerned with it. To answer your question, nothing he wrote seemed off- base to me. Here is an in depth on psychopath vs. sociopath which makes it seem all nice and tidy but even that could be debated. |
+1 i dont like labelling either but for all intents and purposes of this particular discussion it seemed necessary to put into terms that would be better explained by a generally held list of quantifiable traits of each... sorry Monica, i have dealings with the mental health system and know many with illnesses and i too hate how society lables and points at it as a cause...without knowing what theyre talking about... |
And you've just nailed the real reason why this solution isn't viable.
We still don't really have a full working knowledge and understanding of mental health.
Until that's resolved, I suspect we're down to two out of the three options:
1. Status Quo
2. Ban all guns as an experiment. |
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12/20/2012 01:00:34 AM · #844 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by GAP2012:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Cory:
Monica, I'm actually asking mental health questions now... Is this guy full of shit? Or is this the correct take on the terms? |
Humm... Boxing and categorizing disorders is not my cup of tea, and for the most part is still wildly debated because the reality is, people don't fit neatly in boxes. Green is not green is not green. It might be green and yellow mixed, or maybe a splash of blue, or maybe such a dark green it's almost black.
And really, I'm not too concerned with it. To answer your question, nothing he wrote seemed off- base to me. Here is an in depth on psychopath vs. sociopath which makes it seem all nice and tidy but even that could be debated. |
+1 i dont like labelling either but for all intents and purposes of this particular discussion it seemed necessary to put into terms that would be better explained by a generally held list of quantifiable traits of each... sorry Monica, i have dealings with the mental health system and know many with illnesses and i too hate how society lables and points at it as a cause...without knowing what theyre talking about... |
And you've just nailed the real reason why this solution isn't viable.
We still don't really have a full working knowledge and understanding of mental health.
Until that's resolved, I suspect we're down to two out of the three options:
1. Status Quo
2. Ban all guns as an experiment. |
as ive said before the definition of insanity is to continue doing what has always been done and expecting a different result... therefore in amricas case (2) should be the answer otherwise (1) will continue to see countless of innocent killed without even trying aka APATHY, same goes for american govt... but this applies to the world and the way its run! not just america! |
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12/20/2012 01:04:21 AM · #845 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Funny you posted that. That was exactly the website I was using for a reference.
His definition doesn't even come close to agreeing. But I suppose, as you said - it's effectively a meaninglessly broad term, which is disagreed upon by many.
Which... LOL. Makes me wonder why the heck you objected to people using it in the first place. |
Well because there is not fitting perfectly, vs. not fitting AT ALL. [/quote]
But.. I'm confused - his statement was DIRECTLY contradictory to the article you posted. If something so directly contradictory can be considered "arguable" then there's a pretty darn high bar for "not fitting AT ALL" [b]
Originally posted by GAP2012:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by GAP2012:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by GAP2012:
there are many more psycopaths in government and at the heads of corporations as there are on the streets weilding weapons of any kind, but they are looked upto as people to aspire too... that isnt exposed and they are not locked up accordingly nor weeded out and your absolutely right its bandied about as a word just like its an everyday occurance! |
Nope.. Those are sociopaths. |
wrong!!! you can have a psychopath who isnt a serial killer or goes weilding a gun but has the exact same genetic code and patterns of the other but still not weild a physical weapon! sorry but thats a missinterpretation! |
We must be speaking a different language entirely (I realize you are translating, and you are doing fine at it mostly)..
I don't believe that a psychopath could ever successfully operate in government or in the corporate world. Sociopaths however are VERY successful in both realms (and most others as well... Arguably it IS a good thing to be a Sociopath..) |
quote:
A sociopath is one who is affected with a personality disorder marked by antisocial behavior. A psychopath is a person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy or remorse.
recent research done by a geneticist and pschologist in americas top serial killer prison and holding psychopaths recently tested large corporate CEO's and found a number of them had not only the tell tale signs exhibited and included missing empathy and the warrior gene! psychopaths in fact mirror the illusion of empathy... a shy retiring loner who looks unhappy even if you are happy is not mirroring empathy... and we dont even know what his state of mind was or whether he was very ill or just having an accute breakdown which you or anyone can have at any moment with the right stressor and circumstance forced upon you! |
[b]VS.
Originally posted by Article Posted:
Psychopaths often live at the fringes of society. They often tend to be extremely disorganized and are unable to maintain normal relationships with family, friends or co-workers. Unlike psychopaths, sociopaths can be almost obsessively organized and are normal in their social relationships, often forming symbiotic or parasitic relations. A sociopath would likely live an outwardly normal life and appear to blend in well with society; they may even be charming.
edit Career
Psychopaths often find it hard to maintain a steady job and home.
Sociopaths often have successful careers and try and try to make others like and trust them. This is because they understand human social emotions quite well but are unable to experience them. This allows them to be master manipulators of human emotions.
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So either he got this wrong, or the article got this wrong, or it's a very indefinite term.
Seems to me, again, that while a great idea in principle - actually implementing any significantly effective measures would be tricky at the very least, especially given the cultural diversity of the US.
Message edited by author 2012-12-20 01:05:19. |
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12/20/2012 01:04:35 AM · #846 |
South Dakota teen fatally shoots friend after argument over past paintball game
In the US, every day during 2007, about 266 Americans were shot. Every day, a third of them (82 daily) died.
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12/20/2012 01:04:56 AM · #847 |
I don't really know why it's such a bit of contention but if you're concerned what is and isn't a psychopath, here is the most cut and dry answer you'll find, as it's a commonly used criteria for diagnosis. Note there are many issues with diagnosis in the first place, as well as the repercussions. Let's just say that there's a ton of guesswork involved. But there's your answer.
Hare Checklist. |
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12/20/2012 01:05:58 AM · #848 |
And, as I noted about forty posts ago, that was a shotgun that wouldn't have been banned under anything but the most stringent of gun laws. |
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12/20/2012 01:07:36 AM · #849 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula Emphasis added by Cory:
I don't really know why it's such a bit of contention but if you're concerned what is and isn't a psychopath, here is the most cut and dry answer you'll find, as it's a commonly used criteria for diagnosis. Note there are many issues with diagnosis in the first place, as well as the repercussions. Let's just say that there's a ton of guesswork involved. But there's your answer.
Hare Checklist. |
And THAT my friend is exactly why this particular "solution" is not currently viable.
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12/20/2012 01:10:12 AM · #850 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Funny you posted that. That was exactly the website I was using for a reference.
His definition doesn't even come close to agreeing. But I suppose, as you said - it's effectively a meaninglessly broad term, which is disagreed upon by many.
Which... LOL. Makes me wonder why the heck you objected to people using it in the first place. |
Well because there is not fitting perfectly, vs. not fitting AT ALL. |
But.. I'm confused - his statement was DIRECTLY contradictory to the article you posted. If something so directly contradictory can be considered "arguable" then there's a pretty darn high bar for "not fitting AT ALL" [b]
Originally posted by GAP2012:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by GAP2012:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by GAP2012:
there are many more psycopaths in government and at the heads of corporations as there are on the streets weilding weapons of any kind, but they are looked upto as people to aspire too... that isnt exposed and they are not locked up accordingly nor weeded out and your absolutely right its bandied about as a word just like its an everyday occurance! |
Nope.. Those are sociopaths. |
wrong!!! you can have a psychopath who isnt a serial killer or goes weilding a gun but has the exact same genetic code and patterns of the other but still not weild a physical weapon! sorry but thats a missinterpretation! |
We must be speaking a different language entirely (I realize you are translating, and you are doing fine at it mostly)..
I don't believe that a psychopath could ever successfully operate in government or in the corporate world. Sociopaths however are VERY successful in both realms (and most others as well... Arguably it IS a good thing to be a Sociopath..) |
quote:
A sociopath is one who is affected with a personality disorder marked by antisocial behavior. A psychopath is a person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy or remorse.
recent research done by a geneticist and pschologist in americas top serial killer prison and holding psychopaths recently tested large corporate CEO's and found a number of them had not only the tell tale signs exhibited and included missing empathy and the warrior gene! psychopaths in fact mirror the illusion of empathy... a shy retiring loner who looks unhappy even if you are happy is not mirroring empathy... and we dont even know what his state of mind was or whether he was very ill or just having an accute breakdown which you or anyone can have at any moment with the right stressor and circumstance forced upon you! |
[b]VS.
Originally posted by Article Posted:
Psychopaths often live at the fringes of society. They often tend to be extremely disorganized and are unable to maintain normal relationships with family, friends or co-workers. Unlike psychopaths, sociopaths can be almost obsessively organized and are normal in their social relationships, often forming symbiotic or parasitic relations. A sociopath would likely live an outwardly normal life and appear to blend in well with society; they may even be charming.
edit Career
Psychopaths often find it hard to maintain a steady job and home.
Sociopaths often have successful careers and try and try to make others like and trust them. This is because they understand human social emotions quite well but are unable to experience them. This allows them to be master manipulators of human emotions.
|
..
So either he got this wrong, or the article got this wrong, or it's a very indefinite term.
Seems to me, again, that while a great idea in principle - actually implementing any significantly effective measures would be tricky at the very least, especially given the cultural diversity of the US. [/quote]
these are just some of many... no empathy is one very real trait of a psychopath who can be anyone and you wouldnt even know it!... sociapaths have outward signs of their disorder
//relationshipvision.com/article/revisiting-the-age-old-case-of-diagnostic-confusion-sociopath-vs-psychopath
//www.mademan.com/mm/psychopath-vs-sociopath.html
//www.decision-making-confidence.com/sociopath-vs-psychopath.html
//www.thecriminalmind.us/sociopath-vs-psychopath/
//www.differencebetween.net/science/difference-between-a-psychopath-and-a-sociopath/
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