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12/19/2012 06:58:08 PM · #726 |
Originally posted by Alexkc:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
It really doesn't matter what you believe about the intention of the lawmakers. The Supreme Court has affirmed the right of individuals to keep and bear arms. So a "full ban" is not possible, at least not for the foreseeable future. |
Correct. Congress will be hard pressed to pass even modest reform, which will likely carry major loopholes such as exempting assault rifles and extended magazines already in circulation. The risk of having all guns banned is about the same as the risk of returning to 1950's tax rates... nil. |
As horrible as it sounds to say it, I honestly hope that you one day find yourself wishing you had a gun. |
Why? |
Because the smug attitude of "It couldn't happen to me" pisses me off.
We live in a dangerous and cold / hostile world - your failure to realize that, or your desire to pretend otherwise is foolhardy.
Many people live in their little suburbs believing that everyone shares their values.
You honestly believe that your life is worth more than a few dollars, I do not.
Personally I'd prefer to be afforded means to at least meet force with force when/if needed.
Message edited by author 2012-12-19 19:09:11. |
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12/19/2012 07:18:01 PM · #727 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Because the smug attitude of "It couldn't happen to me" pisses me off. |
When have I ever suggested that it couldn't happen to me? The whole point of gun control legislation is recognizing that it COULD happen to me. Having enough sense to realize that more guns are not the solution to a gun threat is a separate, though related, matter.
Let's just step into your little fantasy land for a moment to illustrate the point. This killer breaks into a school and starts shooting. Two or three adults rush him and are summarily killed. If guns are your defense of choice, then these people would have to have guns already loaded on school grounds (the inherent risks of doing so likely resulting in more deaths nationally than the massacres they might prevent). Our amateur heroes would have to hit this guy in the head to stop the attack. If you hit his bulletproof vest, arm, leg, or even graze his head, you can't be sure of stopping him (for reference, several trained NYC police officers managed to hit an unarmed, unvested Amadou Dialo's body anywhere with about 30% of their shots). In the very likely event of failure, the bad guy now has more guns and more ammunition. Let's say instead the heroes dash out with tasters. Already "loaded," a much lower risk to the students, a hit to the arm, leg or grazing the head still stops the bad guy, and failure doesn't add more deadly weapons to the situation. Would I want a gun in the situation? Um... no. |
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12/19/2012 07:18:22 PM · #728 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Because the smug attitude of "It couldn't happen to me" pisses me off.
We live in a dangerous and cold / hostile world - your failure to realize that, or your desire to pretend otherwise is foolhardy.
Many people live in their little suburbs believing that everyone shares their values.
You honestly believe that your life is worth more than a few dollars, I do not.
Personally I'd prefer to be afforded means to at least meet force with force when/if needed. |
This has to be one of the most insulting comments I have ever seen on these forums. You wish for someones life to be in danger because you feel they have a smug attitude? Then you follow it up be saying their life is worth less than a few dollars. That kind of shit is whats wrong with this country. |
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12/19/2012 07:22:50 PM · #729 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Because the smug attitude of "It couldn't happen to me" pisses me off.
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Any different than you thinking your own weapon couldn't be used against you? Or that you may mistakenly use your weapon against the wrong person? Or perhaps that your lawfully obtained weapon couldn't possible get into the hands of someone who wanted to use it for unlawful purposes?
That could never happen to you. All responsible gun owners have absolute responsibility, and 'It' could never happen to them. |
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12/19/2012 07:30:06 PM · #730 |
Originally posted by bhuge:
Originally posted by Cory:
Because the smug attitude of "It couldn't happen to me" pisses me off.
We live in a dangerous and cold / hostile world - your failure to realize that, or your desire to pretend otherwise is foolhardy.
Many people live in their little suburbs believing that everyone shares their values.
You honestly believe that your life is worth more than a few dollars, I do not.
Personally I'd prefer to be afforded means to at least meet force with force when/if needed. |
This has to be one of the most insulting comments I have ever seen on these forums. You wish for someones life to be in danger because you feel they have a smug attitude? Then you follow it up be saying their life is worth less than a few dollars. That kind of shit is whats wrong with this country. |
Insulting? or unsettling?
Perhaps it is wrong, but I do take pleasure in it when someone argues a point, then pays a price for winning the argument, and I know what unintended consequences I've seen with laws that are created around technology with the intent to stop piracy, I know the unintended consequences I've seen that have followed the Patriot act (unintended may be the wrong word, perhaps unpublicized is the better word).. Freedom is a hell of a lot like a bag of chips, once you start with a few nibbles, it's not long before you're wondering how you ate the entire bag.
I see you too are under the impression your life is worth something to everyone else. Face the facts, there are some folks who would be glad to kill you just for fun, a few more who'd be glad to waste you because you're white, and a hell of a lot more that would be perfectly fine with killing you in order to steal a few dollars from you. In the latter case, they may not kill you because you resist, but simply because they don't want to leave a witness who can identify them.
Don't like it? That's fine, but it doesn't change the fact that reality is waiting for you out there. |
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12/19/2012 07:34:42 PM · #731 |
Originally posted by VitaminB:
Originally posted by Cory:
Because the smug attitude of "It couldn't happen to me" pisses me off.
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Any different than you thinking your own weapon couldn't be used against you? Or that you may mistakenly use your weapon against the wrong person? Or perhaps that your lawfully obtained weapon couldn't possible get into the hands of someone who wanted to use it for unlawful purposes?
That could never happen to you. All responsible gun owners have absolute responsibility, and 'It' could never happen to them. |
? Never said that. Hell I've had a gun stolen, and I'm certain it was used it crimes, plus I've been beaten with a stick I lost control of in a fight - so I'm pretty much sure all of the above not only could, but HAS happened.
That's not my point - guns DO NOT MAKE YOU SAFER. They make the criminals question whether or not you're armed - it's a MAD thing, not a guarantee of safety.
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12/19/2012 07:43:54 PM · #732 |
Originally posted by Cory:
That's not my point - guns DO NOT MAKE YOU SAFER. They make the criminals question whether or not you're armed - it's a MAD thing, not a guarantee of safety. |
Then its an awful big risk to take just to make a criminal think twice in a situation that many will never find themselves in. |
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12/19/2012 07:55:05 PM · #733 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Cory:
Because the smug attitude of "It couldn't happen to me" pisses me off. |
When have I ever suggested that it couldn't happen to me? The whole point of gun control legislation is recognizing that it COULD happen to me. Having enough sense to realize that more guns are not the solution to a gun threat is a separate, though related, matter.
Let's just step into your little fantasy land for a moment to illustrate the point. This killer breaks into a school and starts shooting. Two or three adults rush him and are summarily killed. If guns are your defense of choice, then these people would have to have guns already loaded on school grounds (the inherent risks of doing so likely resulting in more deaths nationally than the massacres they might prevent). Our amateur heroes would have to hit this guy in the head to stop the attack. If you hit his bulletproof vest, arm, leg, or even graze his head, you can't be sure of stopping him (for reference, several trained NYC police officers managed to hit an unarmed, unvested Amadou Dialo's body anywhere with about 30% of their shots). In the very likely event of failure, the bad guy now has more guns and more ammunition. Let's say instead the heroes dash out with tasters. Already "loaded," a much lower risk to the students, a hit to the arm, leg or grazing the head still stops the bad guy, and failure doesn't add more deadly weapons to the situation. Would I want a gun in the situation? Um... no. |
I have underlined the important
In any safety course they teach you to have a fully loaded clip in the weapon but none in the chamber. It takes one very fluid motion to load it.
On the taser...Have you ever seen someone hopped up on drugs...The taser does not necessarily work...I watches this guy get tased 6 times and was still coming at he cops....If there was a gun involved it prob would have been different
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12/19/2012 07:59:34 PM · #734 |
Originally posted by Cory:
guns DO NOT MAKE YOU SAFER. They make the criminals question whether or not you're armed - it's a MAD thing |
This particular gunman wore a bulletproof vest, so he was expecting to be shot at, then he shot himself to death. Bad Guy: 2, MAD: 0 |
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12/19/2012 08:06:17 PM · #735 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
In any safety course they teach you to have a fully loaded clip in the weapon but none in the chamber. It takes one very fluid motion to load it. |
No safety course would EVER teach you to have a fully loaded clip in the weapon at a kindergarten on a daily basis precisely because it takes one very fluid motion to load it.
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
The taser does not necessarily work...I watches this guy get tased 6 times and was still coming at he cops... |
And everyone who gets shot once is dead? Which movie was that? Hitting an arm with a bullet does not incapacitate better than hitting an arm with 50,000 volts. |
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12/19/2012 08:11:42 PM · #736 |
ok  scalvertWhat would you do in this situation...I am just glad that I am under castle law (which has been extended to your vehicle in Louisiana)
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12/19/2012 08:14:56 PM · #737 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
In any safety course they teach you to have a fully loaded clip in the weapon but none in the chamber. It takes one very fluid motion to load it. |
No safety course would EVER teach you to have a fully loaded clip in the weapon at a kindergarten on a daily basis precisely because it takes one very fluid motion to load it.
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
The taser does not necessarily work...I watches this guy get tased 6 times and was still coming at he cops... |
And everyone who gets shot once is dead? Which movie was that? Hitting an arm with a bullet does not incapacitate better than hitting an arm with 50,000 volts. |
Hey I learned how to do it...when out on patrol I had a loaded clip at all times in the weapon but none in the chamber...unless I was out of the vehicle...I was also a double carry because of my possition...I had an m4 and a 9mm berretta
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12/19/2012 08:18:20 PM · #738 |
| the way i see it, we have been living under the gun owner logic for the past 220 years and things have gotten progressively worse. I'm not against trying something different. |
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12/19/2012 08:22:32 PM · #739 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
the way i see it, we have been living under the gun owner logic for the past 220 years and things have gotten progressively worse. I'm not against trying something different. |
Couldn't agree more. |
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12/19/2012 08:24:55 PM · #740 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
What would you do in this situation... |
One or more of: the german shepherd shown in that clip, taser, mace, pepper spray or even a strong laser pointer + put baby in car and drive off. None of which carries the overwhelmingly more prevalent risk of having your guns stolen, used against you, or accidentally discharged by the child. |
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12/19/2012 08:25:53 PM · #741 |
We can talk about fire fights and the technicalities of patrolling, but still,
Just to help remember what we are squabbling about here,
this little future fire fighter won't make it to the firehouse. |
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12/19/2012 08:29:06 PM · #742 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
when out on patrol I had a loaded clip at all times in the weapon but none in the chamber... |
A kindergarten isn't a war zone... unless you're there apparently. |
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12/19/2012 08:30:42 PM · #743 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Cory:
guns DO NOT MAKE YOU SAFER. They make the criminals question whether or not you're armed - it's a MAD thing |
This particular gunman wore a bulletproof vest, so he was expecting to be shot at, then he shot himself to death. Bad Guy: 2, MAD: 0 |
so this guy went there with the intent to kill, he was worried that he may be shot to keep him from reaching his high score so he wore a vest. it sure sounds like in this case had the school personal been armed he definitively would have thought twice in fact he probably wouldn't have even had the upper hand if confronted.
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12/19/2012 08:32:14 PM · #744 |
Tell ya what... Keep any kinda of gun you like - zero restrictions... Have at it...
but we ban all the bullets!
Good grief people.... How many more people have to die before this become the needs of the many must trump the needs of the few? You all accept restrictions on behavour all the time but hide behind the 2nd on this topic..... Do I have freedom of religion if it includes human sacrifice? No didn't think so. |
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12/19/2012 08:33:54 PM · #745 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
when out on patrol I had a loaded clip at all times in the weapon but none in the chamber... |
A kindergarten isn't a war zone... unless you're there apparently. |
a teacher can be taught to carry a firearm concealed on her person...with no round in the chamber..then..If she has a 9mm most of those hold 15 rounds in the clip....15 rounds could do the job
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12/19/2012 08:34:16 PM · #746 |
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12/19/2012 08:34:41 PM · #747 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
when out on patrol I had a loaded clip at all times in the weapon but none in the chamber... |
A kindergarten isn't a war zone... unless you're there apparently. |
a teacher can be taught to carry a firearm concealed on her person...with no round in the chamber..then..If she has a 9mm most of those hold 15 rounds in the clip....15 rounds could do the job |
assuming she/he wants to. they are educators not law enforcement or security detail.
i love how the gun lovers are just assuming that everyone wants to live in this armed world. just take a step back and think about that. you WANT to live in a world where every carries a gun for protection.
really? you wouldn't rather takes step in the other direction?
Message edited by author 2012-12-19 20:37:11. |
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12/19/2012 08:37:08 PM · #748 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
when out on patrol I had a loaded clip at all times in the weapon but none in the chamber... |
A kindergarten isn't a war zone... unless you're there apparently. |
a teacher can be taught to carry a firearm concealed on her person...with no round in the chamber..then..If she has a 9mm most of those hold 15 rounds in the clip....15 rounds could do the job |
assuming she/he wants to. |
granted that is personal choice
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12/19/2012 08:42:17 PM · #749 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
when out on patrol I had a loaded clip at all times in the weapon but none in the chamber... |
A kindergarten isn't a war zone... unless you're there apparently. |
a teacher can be taught to carry a firearm concealed on her person...with no round in the chamber..then..If she has a 9mm most of those hold 15 rounds in the clip....15 rounds could do the job |
Little 60ish Miss Brown, rotund, friendly, who mesmerizes kids and gets them to pay attention.
Cuddles one or two of them in her lap. Never saw a gun in her life. Never wanted to.
So, now she's got to take target practice? (or not, 'cause that isn't required?)
Are we being real here yet? |
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12/19/2012 08:42:40 PM · #750 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
so this guy went there with the intent to kill, he was worried that he may be shot to keep him from reaching his high score so he wore a vest. |
Nope. He shot himself before he was even confronted by police, and with hundreds of rounds remaining. We're also probably NOT talking about a rational person here. Cowboy just a posted a clip of a home invasion where the intruders proceeded with knives for 20 minutes despite a growling german shepherd and a woman armed with two guns. |
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