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12/18/2012 09:26:48 PM · #551 |
Thanks, I hope so. We have always been open an honest with her and encouraged her to do the same. Every child is different, every parent is different. We just hope we can do the best we can.
Originally posted by GAP2012:
i thought the way you handled your child was good in many aspects :O) good on ya... its their memories and emotional memories that trigger later with horror that are the concern for later on, not everything they soak in comes out straight away... it has to be discussed and open for them to get used to it over time and deal with effectively and in their own time not forced :O) |
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12/18/2012 09:27:29 PM · #552 |
Originally posted by PGerst:
Well, I guess that makes me feel a whole lot better than this is more of a normal thing.
Crap things are always going to happen. Schools will be attacked, planes will fly into buildings, and countless other things we can't possibly even think of. But, once they do it is the job of our society to work together to come up with a solution to prepare and PREVENT these things from happening again.
The problem here is evident in this topics title. Notice how it doesn't say:
A school shooting
but rather
Another school shooting
It does not matter how long ago something like this had occurred. It just simply should not be happening again. I'm sure your intentions there (and this is nothing against you) were to educate people on the past. I just hope the fact doesn't create any passiveness (i.e. acceptance) because it had occurred long ago. Maybe I'm a little paranoid on that, but given many of the postings I've read here it does make me a bit worried about the continuing unraveling of the way we live.
Originally posted by Spork99:
For those of you who think targeting school kids is a new thing...read here |
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+1
Yes we all should be worried about the ability of modern people to agree with what is normal now.. that is this ridiculous ability to continue to believe if we ban guns it will still happen because they will always find a way to kill... thats the worst lines ive heard over and over again to keep to the 2nd amendment.. and yes it should worry everyone that apathy rules in society above the safety of every living human being not just children but all, that we allow our governments to dictate, corporations too and individuals in powerful places to maintain this status quo and keep people frightened in their little bubbles so they wont force the NRA and remove money from politics and elect real people with real agendas for all people not bias to people of money and influence... yes be worried! apathy in the social media age is more frightening than even the number of senseless killings at home, abroad or anywhere... by guns, individuals, governments waging war... its all senseless when we have brains to educate and use to think and voices to speak and arms and legs to build and creativity to flourish... its all very senseless
we have to believe in human spirit but i feel sadened that this animal instinct we keep holding onto, competativeness, violence and the pack mentality which keeps us held back and promotes fear and used to reward those who perpetuate it in its purest forms for thier own gain... |
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12/18/2012 09:27:50 PM · #553 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
If your airplane is on the earth, it's not much of a plane, is it? |
Of course. That's a key distinction between planes and rocket ships that go beyond the earth... neither of which were development of which were "largely driven by man's desire to kill other people." You could use assorted technological advances to make the same bogus argument that the development of boats was driven by a desire to kill, and you'd be just as wrong to pretend that boats are intended to kill. |
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12/18/2012 09:31:29 PM · #554 |
ok we need to get back on target...........guns dont kill people crazy people kill people
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12/18/2012 09:33:30 PM · #555 |
Originally posted by PGerst:
You said a lot of good stuff in your post. I quoted the last part because its important, but I wanted to comment on the first thing you said.
I totally agree that people aren't asking the right question. In fact, my opinion is that people are going to figure out why this happened and why this happens so often now.
I think the question to answer is why did this not occur often years ago? When I went to school there was no such thing as a lock down, no metal detectors in school, no police roaming the halls. Why not then?
Yes, it seems a similar question as "Why now", but asking "Why not then" could very well lead to a separate set of conclusions and shouldn't be an overlooked perspective. I just think people will not ask that.
Let me break down the situation into two logical parts:
1) Someone killed 20 people
2) in school
I'm simply afraid "doing all I can in my power" will refer to the 2nd part of that, and not the first. As a society, I believe we tend to react to a situation than to holistically tackle the problem.
Ad you said, most people aren't asking the right questions.
Originally posted by GAP2012:
trouble is most people arent asking the right questions about this terrible tragedy!
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i feel for the families, friends, and anyone in the community and parent who has children, its terrible and i wouldnt wish to see anyone die at all! its unecessary all of it! but its not one youngster with a gun that is the problem, the sooner people wake up to it the better! |
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Oh i cant dissagree with any of what youve said there and was really just saying more, not that your wrong, just wanted to reply to it... and youre right, and its that same question albeit different perspective "Why" we are told not to and educated to ask why less and less over time until we just say how high ;O) so i agree with you.. sorry if i sounded like i didnt... just re-enforcing this point that society has to point the finger at itself as we are the ones with the power that we do not weild and allow to be taken from us regardless of the rhetoric of everyone saying otherwise, our rights are little by little being taken away and most people cant see it... and thats why our kids arent safe anymore |
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12/18/2012 09:39:13 PM · #556 |
You are still leaving out the rest of that statement.
crazy people kill people WITH GUNS
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
ok we need to get back on target...........guns dont kill people crazy people kill people |
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12/18/2012 09:39:32 PM · #557 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
ok we need to get back on target...........guns dont kill people crazy people kill people |
Hammers don't drive nails, people drive nails.
Chainsaws don't cut down trees, people cut down trees.
Refrigerators don't keep food cold, people keep food cold.
Cameras don't take photos, people take photos.
All equally true, and all equally lame distractions from the plainly obvious. |
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12/18/2012 09:41:22 PM · #558 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
ok we need to get back on target...........guns dont kill people crazy people kill people |
to put that better guns dont kill people, people kill people! not crazy people thats an insult to so called crazy people! would you say someone in the army or forces is crazy killing an opposite soldier in battle and should be locked up? or would you say he's been manipulated to kill another human being for a cause he may not understand or believe if he did? or would you say the manipulator was the crazy one? or neither? but its senseless killing nonetheless!
definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing as we did before and expecting a different result, so my thought to leave you with is? is it insane to keep holding onto a gun law and 2nd amendment rights despite the result being the same? is it right to invade another country and wage war in return and expect no retaliation? is insane to elect the same two parties into government and expect a different result? are those definitions of insanity at its purest definition?
is it insane to exclude, poke fun and ostrasize people and treat them differently to every other human being and expect a different result? |
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12/18/2012 09:55:10 PM · #559 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
ok we need to get back on target...........guns dont kill people crazy people kill people |
Hammers don't drive nails, people drive nails.
Chainsaws don't cut down trees, people cut down trees.
Refrigerators don't keep food cold, people keep food cold.
Cameras don't take photos, people take photos.
All equally true, and all equally lame distractions from the plainly obvious. |
Well you are correct except for the 2 I crossed out
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12/18/2012 09:57:56 PM · #560 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
ok we need to get back on target...........guns dont kill people crazy people kill people
and i hope you dont take that personally, it was just a way of explaining it in a relevant way to you, seeing your photo... im sure your a pleasant, amiable and religious individual who believes in right and wrong... so its not an attack on you personally... or to ridicule or anything.. just trying to open people up as to why? |
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12/18/2012 09:58:40 PM · #561 |
Originally posted by JH:
BBC had an article about "how to tell your children" today. So I'm wondering, did any of you with young children told them about the shootings, and if so, how did you tell them without frightening them?
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We did not bring it up with ours (10 and 7) but answered any questions they had as forthrightly as we could. We do not have a TV so it helped that we weren't being bombarded constantly with images and such.
I talked to one teacher Monday after school and she said that they were not instructed one way or another about bringing it up, but she, and all the others she had talked to, decided to not discuss it unless the students brought it up. At that point, they would answer questions and talk about it as honestly as possible.
There is also a group of parents that get to the school early and set in the front doorway and talk with each other until dismissal. The principal came out and talked to them Monday. When asked if they needed to stop congregating, she told them no, that she actually liked them there because it was a chaotic time of day and it was extra eyes on the entrance/exit. She also told them that if any of the students were overly concerned or affected, to let her know. AND she sent a note home explaining our safety plans.
Probably one of the good things about our little community school is that everyone knows everyone (the downside is that they will know your business as well). I was volunteering there MOnday and a parent came in. She had a name tag on so we knew that she had checked in at the office but none of us knew her. You could almost see the little red flags start to wave until one lady walked up and introduced herself and found out who she belonged with. I'm not saying it *couldn't* happen here, but it is nice to know other parents have your kids' backs.
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12/18/2012 10:01:47 PM · #562 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
ok we need to get back on target...........guns dont kill people crazy people kill people |
Hammers don't drive nails, people drive nails.
Chainsaws don't cut down trees, people cut down trees.
Refrigerators don't keep food cold, people keep food cold.
Cameras don't take photos, people take photos.
All equally true, and all equally lame distractions from the plainly obvious. |
Well you are correct except for the 2 I crossed out |
lol well strictly people the original post was correct sorry... the mechanics of it are not what creates but the driving force behind it, so yes humans keep food cold by using fridges(or in eskimos cases warm) and people use the camera to take the photo otherwise the camera would find its own composition and place and take the shot and we'd all be on a another website called digital robotic photocapture challenge ;O) just a small but amusing thought ;O) |
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12/18/2012 10:07:12 PM · #563 |
Originally posted by JH:
BBC had an article about "how to tell your children" today. So I'm wondering, did any of you with young children told them about the shootings, and if so, how did you tell them without frightening them? |
All three of my kids went straight to the internet the second they got home... for the Sandy Hook shooting, pets for sale and Minecraft, respectively. |
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12/19/2012 12:01:52 AM · #564 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spork99:
If your airplane is on the earth, it's not much of a plane, is it? |
Of course. That's a key distinction between planes and rocket ships that go beyond the earth... neither of which were development of which were "largely driven by man's desire to kill other people." You could use assorted technological advances to make the same bogus argument that the development of boats was driven by a desire to kill, and you'd be just as wrong to pretend that boats are intended to kill. |
If that's true, which it's not, why have all of the major developments in missile...erm...rocket and aircraft technology been developed by and for the military or intelligence organizations? Their goal is to win over the enemy. A goal usually achieved by killing them.
Message edited by author 2012-12-19 00:07:02. |
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12/19/2012 12:05:26 AM · #565 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
ok we need to get back on target...........guns dont kill people crazy people kill people |
Hammers don't drive nails, people use hammers to drive nails.
Chainsaws don't cut down trees, people use chainsaws to cut down trees.
Refrigerators don't keep food cold, people use refrigerators keep food cold.
Cameras don't take photos, people use cameras to take photos.
All equally true, and all equally lame distractions from the plainly obvious. |
fixed.
crazy people also use knives, bombs, cars, trains, and broken chair legs to kill people |
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12/19/2012 12:47:12 AM · #566 |
Since there is an obvious desire to continue this irrelevant comparison let me add:
water
arms
hands
legs
electricity
chemicals
glass
wire
wood
bats
Should I go on or is it really time to stop these stupid comparisons? People can kill with just about anything but no other is as readily available AND can kill masses of people quickly AND has been proven to do so AND has been repeated with high frequency, than the gun.
QED
Originally posted by Spork99:
crazy people also use knives, bombs, cars, trains, and broken chair legs to kill people |
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12/19/2012 12:48:22 AM · #567 |
Originally posted by PGerst:
How in the world did this thread get derailed to the discussion of a fighter plane? I tried to understand the posts below but this extrapolation is as far off the mark as driving a car into a group of people.
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It was a spinoff of, guns are designed to kill. So someone said, planes were designed to kill.
The obvious flaw of this logic is that a gun can't get me to France, or even to the supermarket, so...
If we can't see there is a difference between reason for invention and sole purpose, then I don't see how this discussion can even go any further. It's just silly. By this logic if someone is against the space program they can never drink Tang... |
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12/19/2012 12:53:37 AM · #568 |
Originally posted by PGerst:
Since there is an obvious desire to continue this irrelevant comparison let me add:
water
arms
hands
legs
electricity
chemicals
glass
wire
wood
bats
Should I go on or is it really time to stop these stupid comparisons? People can kill with just about anything but no other is as readily available AND can kill masses of people quickly AND has been proven to do so AND has been repeated with high frequency, than the gun.
QED
Originally posted by Spork99:
crazy people also use knives, bombs, cars, trains, and broken chair legs to kill people |
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+1
exactly!! cause and effect! no way around QED ;O) The point being the source of all issues like this...not the tool or implement being used whether it be soft body or brutal in design...anything manipulated to end anothers life no matter who, is just wrong! thats a big FULL STOP.! |
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12/19/2012 12:55:33 AM · #569 |
| ...and the constant denial that guns are actually a dangerous tool is more dangerous that the gun itself. |
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12/19/2012 01:16:35 AM · #570 |
Woopsydoodles... all this fight fire with fire brings out more trouble.
"An 11-year-old Utah boy who said he brought a gun to school to protect himself from a Newtown-style attack, then brandished the pistol at three classmates during recess, has been detained on assault and weapons charges."
"Horsley described the boy's parents as shocked by the incident and cooperating with investigators, who found the gun belonged to a relative who has been living temporarily with the boy's family."
^^^ Like I said. Jail time if your gun is lost or stolen (as I read is done in Israel). I like that idea. That "relative" should go to jail too. End of story.
Message edited by author 2012-12-19 01:17:08. |
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12/19/2012 01:55:04 AM · #571 |
Planes, guns, moms whatever.... It was still an isolated incident just like Norwegian Anders Behring Breivik killed 77 people - most of them teenagers.
Looking at how many people live in the US; these things _will_ happen. If countries changed their laws based on the behavior of odd, freaky, individuals, we would have a world not fit for the rest of us. |
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12/19/2012 01:58:37 AM · #572 |
Originally posted by TrollMan:
Planes, guns, moms whatever.... It was still an isolated incident just like Norwegian Anders Behring Breivik killed 77 people - most of them teenagers.
Looking at how many people live in the US; these things _will_ happen. If countries changed their laws based on the behavior of odd, freaky, individuals, we would have a world not fit for the rest of us. |
So you'd be for ending the wars we are having in the middle east? Cus I'd agree with you there. Money better spent on health care and swimming lessons really as we have more deaths from health problems and drowning by far than terrorism. |
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12/19/2012 02:17:38 AM · #573 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by TrollMan:
Planes, guns, moms whatever.... It was still an isolated incident just like Norwegian Anders Behring Breivik killed 77 people - most of them teenagers.
Looking at how many people live in the US; these things _will_ happen. If countries changed their laws based on the behavior of odd, freaky, individuals, we would have a world not fit for the rest of us. |
So you'd be for ending the wars we are having in the middle east? Cus I'd agree with you there. Money better spent on health care and swimming lessons really as we have more deaths from health problems and drowning by far than terrorism. |
+1 |
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12/19/2012 02:20:11 AM · #574 |
| its been stated that the stats on guns owned (not including illegal weapons) is around the 260+ million mark... thats just over 1 weapon per person in the USA regardless of age and ability and said illegal weapons... that is moronic! |
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12/19/2012 02:41:50 AM · #575 |
That is a very complacent attitude towards the death of children.
The fact that it occurs elsewhere and not every day is in no way a justification at all for what happened nor one that says laws should not be changed. It is not acceptable nor is it an isolated incident. An isolated incident, for example, is one where a bridge full of cars collapses.
Originally posted by TrollMan:
Planes, guns, moms whatever.... It was still an isolated incident just like Norwegian Anders Behring Breivik killed 77 people - most of them teenagers.
Looking at how many people live in the US; these things _will_ happen. If countries changed their laws based on the behavior of odd, freaky, individuals, we would have a world not fit for the rest of us. |
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