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12/18/2012 07:53:30 PM · #526 |
BBC had an article about "how to tell your children" today. So I'm wondering, did any of you with young children told them about the shootings, and if so, how did you tell them without frightening them?
Personally, I haven't told my 7yo son yet - I'm not sure whether just to come clean in case he hears a warped version of events from a classmate. |
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12/18/2012 07:58:47 PM · #527 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Neat:
Yes that's bc this world only deals with the effects and not the causes, look at our doctors, same ole, same ole, here have a drug, don't worry about your diet, people aren't living longer, they're taking longer to die!! |
Yes. This is why we are dropping bombs and sending drones abroad instead of building schools and providing resources.
Terrorist are made not born. The same with murders. |
I agree. But the type of change you are hoping for will take generations. |
Not necessarily. Education is a first. To say "throw all the nuts away" does nothing to help the problem. That's what we've BEEN doing for years with mental institutions which give people less rights than in jails. It's sick. It's truly wrong. It is up to an informed populous, and truly informed, not just webmd tidbits, to look out for their families and put on the pressure for better mental health care. The information is out there. Neuroscience is making leaps and bounds, the schools need to catch up and teach our "professionals" these new findings, because many people don't self educate, they expect they learn everything they need to at school, but they don't.
I gotta say, this whole thing, more than anything else, has made me reconsider staying out of the psych industry... |
absolutely i have seen first hand the mental health situation and the institutions and people always want to blame mental people(wrong terminology) for what is wrong with society, education(conditioning) and government and enforcement(police, courts and military) are all setup to push people without the ability to fight back into corners and wonder why they attack... what would you do if you had your rights, god given human rights taken from you and no response but to fight... people take things all too simply and cant look beyond their small spheres of comfort to recognise the terrible things done to so many at the hands of so few and put themself in their place and recognise the flaws to our system and way of dealing with things... wake up people! for goodness sake wake up! we need new thoughts, new education and better ways to attain a government and resources that we should control not individuals... not the way things are but the way they should be, western society and most modern societies are sickness evolving not devolving... you cant see indoctrination until you open up and change your thinking and look further than your bubble of comfort and question everything especially authority and government and their interests... |
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12/18/2012 08:01:57 PM · #528 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by TrollMan:
just like 9/11 wouldn't have happened if aircraft weren't allowed. We're not blaming the planes, are we? |
Planes aren't designed or intended to kill things, however after 9/11 we DID modify cockpit doors and security checkpoints to reduce the chances of a plane being used for that purpose. |
The development of the jet engine was all about delivering death to the enemy faster than he could bring it to you. Passenger travel was secondary to that. |
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12/18/2012 08:03:16 PM · #529 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'm losing track. Is the consensus that the shooting is the fault of the Occupy Movement? |
I think there's a faction, at least, that believes the "right to bear arms" is important enough that a little collateral damage here and there is an acceptable price, but the right to free speech stops when it starts inconveniencing the plutocracy. Not sure, but I think that's the position... |
I'm pretty sure more people have been arrested for using their 2nd amendment weapon illegally than have been arrested for using their first amendment voice illegally (ie. camping in a public square, etc.) during the Occupy Movement. |
that maybe a question of stats but its still ridiculous to lock people up in th case of occupy! thats just powers that be forcing something on people who have a right, human right i dont give a crap about USA's amendments and constitution, its humans rights to say these people are thieves and deserve to be put in jail like anyone who did the same just mugging someone on the street, its laughable that anyone can say a mugger and a banker are no different...they damn well are but one has the law protecting him the other doesnt because of the status and position they hold and how much money they have and make! |
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12/18/2012 08:09:50 PM · #530 |
| Just because you were arrested doesn't mean you did jail time. Just pointing that out. I just think it's a poor analogy to somehow compare the history of the struggle for first amendment and second amendment rights. |
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12/18/2012 08:10:54 PM · #531 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by TrollMan:
just like 9/11 wouldn't have happened if aircraft weren't allowed. We're not blaming the planes, are we? |
Planes aren't designed or intended to kill things, however after 9/11 we DID modify cockpit doors and security checkpoints to reduce the chances of a plane being used for that purpose. |
The development of the jet engine was all about delivering death to the enemy faster than he could bring it to you. Passenger travel was secondary to that. |
plus you also take it right back to the source of the issues... why did the event take place in the first place? and why is there conflict that caused this altogether? why does USA feel it needs to police the world? why did they finance and train bin laden to kill russians, why did he turn on the usa? why did any of that happen? resources, money global power mongering, greed, so called human rights, how would anyone feel if you invaded there home, and why should americans be any different? and was it bin laden anyway? it couldnt be the usa government behind it or private interests oh no! it doesnt matter what you believe you have to look at the source of the reasons why people are pushed to do anything and resort to violence we are humans all of us not animals and yet even animals are civilised in this world and humans arent evolving beyond this mentality... we just perpetuate it in more subtle and covert ways and most people want to ignore or are obliviuous to ask why? not how, not should? but why! for goodness sake! shakes head |
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12/18/2012 08:18:50 PM · #532 |
Originally posted by JH:
BBC had an article about "how to tell your children" today. So I'm wondering, did any of you with young children told them about the shootings, and if so, how did you tell them without frightening them?
Personally, I haven't told my 7yo son yet - I'm not sure whether just to come clean in case he hears a warped version of events from a classmate. |
Yes. I spoke at length with both of my kids of which one is in elementary school.
I am direct.
I told them the truth.
The children from my daughter's school are making pictures and snowflakes for the students of Sandy Hook elementary school which will be sent to their new class rooms when they return to school.
Message edited by author 2012-12-18 21:21:03. |
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12/18/2012 08:19:00 PM · #533 |
| For those of you who think targeting school kids is a new thing...read here |
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12/18/2012 08:19:18 PM · #534 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Just because you were arrested doesn't mean you did jail time. Just pointing that out. I just think it's a poor analogy to somehow compare the history of the struggle for first amendment and second amendment rights. |
yes but the point is that its ridiculous to allow the legal (not lawful) system to arrest them in the first place! look at those things and why not the events during and after but the hidden(not so hidden) agenda and how the system fails the people who are right and rewards the those who arent... im sorry but it does... legal is not lawful. god given rights of all humans not man made unlawful laws forced upon people for anything including and under amendment and constitutions are not right full stop... that was the point, not whether they received jail time or a battering or the difference to 1 amendment to another... we have to look at the whole picture and say its not right not that is wrong or right under this clause or another.. its all being used to manipulate and segregate not to weigh up its merit... does that help put it into perspective? i say nothing out of anger or spite or to cause offence but to enlighten and educate and open peoples minds up to it all not to attack or accuse or upset beyond making people realise how society is being manipulated and indoctrnated to think the medias way, the governments way, the people with power want us to be! ? |
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12/18/2012 08:28:01 PM · #535 |
Originally posted by GAP2012:
...god given rights of all humans... |
You just lost a whole lot of people who like to argue on these threads. ;) (not me though) |
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12/18/2012 08:29:40 PM · #536 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Planes aren't designed or intended to kill things, however after 9/11 we DID modify cockpit doors and security checkpoints to reduce the chances of a plane being used for that purpose. |
The development of the jet engine was all about delivering death to the enemy faster than he could bring it to you. Passenger travel was secondary to that. |
Good thing I wasn't talking about jet engines or original purpose then or your straw man would only be good for scaring crows. |
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12/18/2012 08:30:50 PM · #537 |
Good god...I posted...then I got off work....Then all hell broke loose on this tread.
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12/18/2012 08:31:51 PM · #538 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by GAP2012:
...god given rights of all humans... |
You just lost a whole lot of people who like to argue on these threads. ;) (not me though) |
well i wouldnt be surprised ;O) but hey eventually we all wake up to the truth! sooner or later, hopefully the sooner the better for everyone ;O) and its not an easy process..but everyone needs to ;O) |
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12/18/2012 08:35:11 PM · #539 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Planes aren't designed or intended to kill things, however after 9/11 we DID modify cockpit doors and security checkpoints to reduce the chances of a plane being used for that purpose. |
The development of the jet engine was all about delivering death to the enemy faster than he could bring it to you. Passenger travel was secondary to that. |
Good thing I wasn't talking about jet engines or original purpose then or your straw man would only be good for scaring crows. |
lolal thanks ;o) but i dont agree with everything that is in that vein but i do look at the whole picture try to look beyond the visible and my box hahaha i just believe in humans as being able to evolve beyond the current version lolal otherwise we'll never see the basic killing need of anyone let alone children who are precious and full of creativity will never end and thats the sad state of it! |
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12/18/2012 08:39:39 PM · #540 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Planes aren't designed or intended to kill things, however after 9/11 we DID modify cockpit doors and security checkpoints to reduce the chances of a plane being used for that purpose. |
The development of the jet engine was all about delivering death to the enemy faster than he could bring it to you. Passenger travel was secondary to that. |
Good thing I wasn't talking about jet engines or original purpose then or your straw man would only be good for scaring crows. |
You were talking about planes, the development of which was largely driven by man's desire to kill other people. The development of jet engines is just one of many pieces. A mere 8 years after the Wright brothers initial flight, Italy used planes on the battlefield in Libya.
Message edited by author 2012-12-18 20:43:01. |
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12/18/2012 08:41:52 PM · #541 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Planes aren't designed or intended to kill things, however after 9/11 we DID modify cockpit doors and security checkpoints to reduce the chances of a plane being used for that purpose. |
The development of the jet engine was all about delivering death to the enemy faster than he could bring it to you. Passenger travel was secondary to that. |
Good thing I wasn't talking about jet engines or original purpose then or your straw man would only be good for scaring crows. |
You were talking about planes, the development of which was largely driven by man's desire to kill other people. The development of jet engines is just one of many pieces. |
jet engines review history of the the V1, V2 and V3 rockets unmaned bombs for killing the british people in WW2! not as a part but as the delivery system and driving component! sorry :OS
the plane and its inception was by wright brothers, before them leonardo da vinci etc... all for peaceful reasons to fly with mother nature...
Message edited by author 2012-12-18 20:44:40. |
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12/18/2012 08:48:32 PM · #542 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
For those of you who think targeting school kids is a new thing...read here |
Within a year, pyrotol was no longer distributed for farm use and dynamite sales were regulated, though still available. After another attempted bombing at La Guardia in 1975, you could no longer buy dynamite at a hardware store regardless of paperwork and permits. |
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12/18/2012 08:49:40 PM · #543 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
You were talking about planes, the development of which was largely driven by man's desire to kill other people. |
I meant here on earth. YPMV. |
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12/18/2012 08:51:31 PM · #544 |
I have a 6 year old. We didn't tell her and the school decided (which I'm happy for) not to talk about it with K-5 unless a student brought it up specifically. If that were the case they would talk to them individually.
Well, it didn't take my daughter more than 10 minutes on the bus to hear what happened.
But, that isn't the interesting part.
We talked about it. She doesn't seem nervous or anxious and is still very excited about school. That's good. But, she did come up with a detailed "analysis" of how her room isn't safe because the hiding place isn't good and someone from the window could see, their classroom is at the end of the hall near a glass door, glass isn't strong and someone could come in right there.
Again, not talked about in school, yet she comes up with this detailed plan. The thing is, she is 100% correct on every aspect.
Kids know more than we think they do. She knows that there are bad people, but she knows that she can't live being afraid. That's the job of my wife and I, to worry about her safety. My daughters concern is writing, math, science, etc.
My wife talked with her a bit as she is better trained for this (she is studying for school counseling/mental health) than me. The details aren't something I can talk about. I've decided not to read or watch news on this. Partially because I don't trust the media, and partly for some first hand information that is more than I need to know.
Originally posted by JH:
BBC had an article about "how to tell your children" today. So I'm wondering, did any of you with young children told them about the shootings, and if so, how did you tell them without frightening them?
Personally, I haven't told my 7yo son yet - I'm not sure whether just to come clean in case he hears a warped version of events from a classmate. |
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12/18/2012 08:53:31 PM · #545 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spork99:
You were talking about planes, the development of which was largely driven by man's desire to kill other people. |
I meant here on earth. YPMV. |
If your airplane is on the earth, it's not much of a plane, is it?
I've come to expect that sort of thing from you.
Message edited by author 2012-12-18 20:55:38. |
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12/18/2012 09:00:30 PM · #546 |
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12/18/2012 09:06:47 PM · #547 |
Well, I guess that makes me feel a whole lot better than this is more of a normal thing.
Crap things are always going to happen. Schools will be attacked, planes will fly into buildings, and countless other things we can't possibly even think of. But, once they do it is the job of our society to work together to come up with a solution to prepare and PREVENT these things from happening again.
The problem here is evident in this topics title. Notice how it doesn't say:
A school shooting
but rather
Another school shooting
It does not matter how long ago something like this had occurred. It just simply should not be happening again. I'm sure your intentions there (and this is nothing against you) were to educate people on the past. I just hope the fact doesn't create any passiveness (i.e. acceptance) because it had occurred long ago. Maybe I'm a little paranoid on that, but given many of the postings I've read here it does make me a bit worried about the continuing unraveling of the way we live.
Originally posted by Spork99:
For those of you who think targeting school kids is a new thing...read here |
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12/18/2012 09:10:42 PM · #548 |
Originally posted by PGerst:
Again, not talked about in school, yet she comes up with this detailed plan. The thing is, she is 100% correct on every aspect.
Kids know more than we think they do. She knows that there are bad people, but she knows that she can't live being afraid. That's the job of my wife and I, to worry about her safety. My daughters concern is writing, math, science, etc.
My wife talked with her a bit as she is better trained for this (she is studying for school counseling/mental health) than me. The details aren't something I can talk about. I've decided not to read or watch news on this. Partially because I don't trust the media, and partly for some first hand information that is more than I need to know. |
well thats because early on kids see things differently as we know, theyre creative souls and unfortunately education(indoctrination) in its current form will educate the creativity out of them sooner or later
review youtube videos of Sir Ken Robinson on creativity
but your right kids are smarter, geniuses at 4yrs and upwards.. all children, until they go through the system bit by bit reducing their genius to mediocrity, although they learn by example a lot, their imagination and thoughts are more free than adults(mostly) and can see that logic of those elements in her small world are the things that are wrong... why dont schools use tinted windows and have panic rooms and toughed glass etc... you can see logic in those things... but then it misses the point again while being good things, nobody asks the children is there anyone who they see is different and why they dont play with them or something... maybe at 4,5,6,7 they do.. but what about after that? who looks to be excluded and why? why is someone being made fun of or pointed out etc... ive heard of teachers still singuling people out even good ones... we must look at cause not effect, resolve at the source of all things not the results... include not exclude...
i thought the way you handled your child was good in many aspects :O) good on ya... its their memories and emotional memories that trigger later with horror that are the concern for later on, not everything they soak in comes out straight away... it has to be discussed and open for them to get used to it over time and deal with effectively and in their own time not forced :O) |
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12/18/2012 09:18:21 PM · #549 |
You said a lot of good stuff in your post. I quoted the last part because its important, but I wanted to comment on the first thing you said.
I totally agree that people aren't asking the right question. In fact, my opinion is that people are going to figure out why this happened and why this happens so often now.
I think the question to answer is why did this not occur often years ago? When I went to school there was no such thing as a lock down, no metal detectors in school, no police roaming the halls. Why not then?
Yes, it seems a similar question as "Why now", but asking "Why not then" could very well lead to a separate set of conclusions and shouldn't be an overlooked perspective. I just think people will not ask that.
Let me break down the situation into two logical parts:
1) Someone killed 20 people
2) in school
I'm simply afraid "doing all I can in my power" will refer to the 2nd part of that, and not the first. As a society, I believe we tend to react to a situation than to holistically tackle the problem.
Ad you said, most people aren't asking the right questions.
Originally posted by GAP2012:
trouble is most people arent asking the right questions about this terrible tragedy!
...
i feel for the families, friends, and anyone in the community and parent who has children, its terrible and i wouldnt wish to see anyone die at all! its unecessary all of it! but its not one youngster with a gun that is the problem, the sooner people wake up to it the better! |
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12/18/2012 09:20:47 PM · #550 |
How in the world did this thread get derailed to the discussion of a fighter plane? I tried to understand the posts below but this extrapolation is as far off the mark as driving a car into a group of people.
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