What Atheists Should Learn From Religion

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II

12/13/2012 10:27:59 AM · #429

Originally posted by Flash:

Flood of Noah - Real? At least one archeologists believe he has proof - the finder of the Titanic

Evidence of a localized Neolithic deluge at the Black Sea is NOT evidence of a global flood intended to cleanse the earth (Australia had a flood four times that size just this past March, and the Mississippi/Missouri River flood of 1993 was even larger than that). It is also not evidence that the Babylonian god Ea told Ut-Napishtim to build a huge, pitch-covered ark to save himself and samples of all living creatures from a global flood that the Babylonian god Enlil was sending to wipe out all humans and land animals.

Venser

Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO M.Zuiko

12/13/2012 10:39:43 AM · #430

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Flash:
Flood of Noah - Real? At least one archeologists believe he has proof - the finder of the Titanic

Evidence of a localized Neolithic deluge at the Black Sea is NOT evidence of a global flood intended to cleanse the earth (Australia had a flood four times that size just this past March, and the Mississippi/Missouri River flood of 1993 was even larger than that). It is also not evidence that the Babylonian god Ea told Ut-Napishtim to build a huge, pitch-covered ark to save himself and samples of all living creatures from a global flood that the Babylonian god Enlil was sending to wipe out all humans and land animals.

You need to start reading Creation magazine. It's freaking awesome. Got my subscription after my cousin married a creationist and converted. As a person of science, it's simply astounding the leaps they're willing to take to prove their position.

I always know four times a year a good comedy is coming in the mail.

Flash

Nikon D700

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

12/14/2012 01:16:33 AM · #431

Originally posted by scalvert:

I'll re-read the article, however I don't recall it claiming to prove the existance of God, only the evidence of a flood that is likely to be the flood of Noah. What you believe is of little personal consequence to me. The distinction between the flood mentioned in the article and your examples are the longevity of their territorial claim. Regardless - Science is far from having its own hands clean in the "fabrication" business. a historic scientific fraud goes under the microscope

scalvert

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

12/14/2012 01:29:31 AM · #432

Originally posted by Flash:

I'll re-read the article, however I don't recall it claiming to prove the existance of God

Neither did I, but thanks for the laugh.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

12/14/2012 06:36:48 AM · #433

Originally posted by Flash:

Regardless - Science is far from having its own hands clean in the "fabrication" business. a historic scientific fraud goes under the microscope

So you had to go back more than a half-century to support your case? That was debunked in the 50s.

Sad....

scalvert

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

12/14/2012 07:00:39 AM · #434

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

So you had to go back more than a half-century to support your case? That was debunked in the 50s.

Not to mention that the whole point of a hoax is that it ISN'T subject to scientific method. Whatever. An ancient flood roughly the size of Florida would neither wipe out humanity nor require saving animal species, so if anything the site would be evidence of a Babylonian tall tale run wild and rebranded for later generations.

Mike

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

12/14/2012 02:10:30 PM · #435

if anyone cares to know why I don't believe in God? its because events like today's school shooting occur. any God that cared at all about any of his followers, would never allow something like this to happen.

I'm so sick of the "its God plan" or "God is testing us" or whatever the stories i was told growing up about life's adversities, it's unacceptable.

and if he does exist, I'd prefer not to worship one that has the supposed power to intervene and doesn't and stands idly by while innocent children are massacred.

Message edited by author 2012-12-14 14:30:05.

Venser

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II

Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO M.Zuiko

12/14/2012 02:12:36 PM · #436

Originally posted by mike_311:

and if he does exist, I'd prefer not to worship one that has the supposed power to intervene and doesn't and stands idly by while children are massacred.

The way I look at it, if he does exist and chooses not to do anything, he's malevolent. If he can't do anything, he's impotent.

Either option leaves someone I'd rather have no involvement with.

rooum

12/14/2012 02:23:42 PM · #437

Originally posted by Venser:

Originally posted by mike_311:
and if he does exist, I'd prefer not to worship one that has the supposed power to intervene and doesn't and stands idly by while children are massacred.

The way I look at it, if he does exist and chooses not to do anything, he's malevolent. If he can't do anything, he's impotent.

Either option leaves someone I'd rather have no involvement with.

That's pretty much how i look at it as well. When it comes to a 'creator' i'm an agnostic (although i do believe in various types of gods such in a kind of pagan way) and i can't see any sign of a loving benign creator. An insane gnostic creator perhaps, or an aloof alien scientist maybe. Those seem more likely. If there was absolute proof of a creator god then i would deny him anyway.

E.T.A- I'd originally put 'atheist' instead of 'agnostic'- tired.

Message edited by author 2012-12-14 14:34:12.

12/14/2012 02:29:35 PM · #438

The reaction I'm seeing is both common and understandable. If you are scratching your head and asking how someone could continue to believe in God after incidences like this without basically sticking your head in the sand, I'd recommend "God, Freedom, and Evil" by Alvin Plantinga. It is a very academic treatment of theocidy (the squaring between God and the existence of evil). No platitudes here.

The point wouldn't be to sway your own opinions, but to offer enlightenment on those of us that hold other opinions.

rooum

12/14/2012 02:31:52 PM · #439

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Thanks for the recommendation Jason, i'll keep an eye out for it.

12/14/2012 02:34:26 PM · #440

If you do any reading on a kindle you can do the sample and get at least a little ways into it. (probably not enough to be satisfying though).

12/15/2012 12:29:32 PM · #441

For those that don't know, I am an atheist and I would call myself a Buddhist as well, in a broad sense. No dogma.

I finally found an explanation of Christianity, namely the idea of "sin" that makes perfect sense to me.

What is sin?

Nullix

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

12/17/2012 01:02:36 PM · #442

Originally posted by mike_311:

I attest there is a good creator of our universe because you see this as a travesty. If we were just random beings, you would chalk it up to your existence. It's because we have a greater purpose that you react to such a travesty.

If you believed in the same "God" as Christians do, you would understand that God had nothing to do with this. It is against his design and plan. I don't think he stands idly while this "free will" is perpetrated. If you read the stories of the events, it seems there was some heroes in this devastation.

Nullix

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

12/17/2012 01:04:26 PM · #443

Originally posted by escapetooz:

I finally found an explanation of Christianity, namely the idea of "sin" that makes perfect sense to me.

What is sin?

That article is riddled with "New Age" and half truths. Please don't use this view as a platform of Christianity's view of sin. It'll just get confusing.

Venser

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II

Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO M.Zuiko

12/17/2012 01:19:58 PM · #444

Originally posted by Nullix:

How does this prove there's a God? You could literally replace "good creator of our universe" with anything and your logic still holds. All it proved is that some humans have morals and empathy, two things not exclusive to religion or believing in a God.

12/18/2012 06:49:32 PM · #445

Originally posted by Nullix:

Originally posted by escapetooz:
I finally found an explanation of Christianity, namely the idea of "sin" that makes perfect sense to me.

What is sin?

That article is riddled with "New Age" and half truths. Please don't use this view as a platform of Christianity's view of sin. It'll just get confusing.

I'm well aware of the current Christian view of sin. It's a definition I reject. The article I posted makes sense to me, and is applicable to my belief system.

I find it amusing in these discussions that many Christians respond as if atheists are uniformed. Trust me, most of us are HIGHLY aware of Christian teachings as they are forced upon us at every turn with or without our wanting them.

I understand Christianity, in many forms, from many churches, sects, personal friends, and I reject it all. It does not speak to me. It's oppressive and negative in it's current manifestation.

ETA: Here is the same explanation of the original meaning of the word sin in Hebrew and Greek without all of the new age stuff, as I know that turns people off (me as well sometimes but I try to look past fluff to the heart of the message)

Sin as missing the mark

Message edited by author 2012-12-18 18:57:38.

12/18/2012 08:11:45 PM · #446

Originally posted by escapetooz:

I understand Christianity, in many forms, from many churches, sects, personal friends, and I reject it all. It does not speak to me. It's oppressive and negative in it's current manifestation.

We had an emergency meeting and although your rejection is going to cause some temporary setbacks, we have no choice but to persevere... ;)

12/18/2012 08:46:33 PM · #447

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by escapetooz:
I understand Christianity, in many forms, from many churches, sects, personal friends, and I reject it all. It does not speak to me. It's oppressive and negative in it's current manifestation.

We had an emergency meeting and although your rejection is going to cause some temporary setbacks, we have no choice but to persevere... ;)

You're hilarious Doc. I think the thing to understand is rejecting Christianity does not mean I reject all Christians. Thinking Christianity in general has an oppressive effect doesn't mean I think all Christians oppressive or oppressed. In the same way I think some New Agey beliefs are total nonsense and can be just as destructive as any other religious beliefs, I don't reject my friends for having those beliefs.

Just want to make that clear before anyone gets the wrong idea.

ETA: I consider myself a Buddhist and rejected the teachings at a Buddhist temple I went to for a weekend meditation retreat. I'm a skeptic and a critic quite equally across the board. ;)

Message edited by author 2012-12-18 20:48:50.

12/18/2012 08:48:32 PM · #448

Just having fun with you Monica.

12/18/2012 08:49:11 PM · #449

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Just having fun with you Monica.

I know. ;)