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12/18/2012 06:21:02 PM · #501 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Like I have been saying all along...we need to teach responsible gun ownership....i.e. hunter's safety and any weapons safety course. |
A whole bunch of us have been saying that, Cowboy.
That's why a proficiency test and license would be helpful, no? |
Right but it has also been put out there ALOT..ban the guns...ban the guns
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12/18/2012 06:22:37 PM · #502 |
Originally posted by Neat:
Originally posted by TrollMan:
In my mind, it's not as complicated as many make it.
It was a nutty mom and a kid with a troubled upbringing. The kid went spastic and the results were obviously devastating. End of story.
This particular case probably wouldn't have happened if guns weren't allowed and his mom weren't collecting them...just like 9/11 wouldn't have happened if aircraft weren't allowed. We're not blaming the planes, are we? We're only blaming the people behind it. Seems logical to me. |
Thankyou trollman:
I see once again the real issue has been just ignored, the kid was nutty, yes, what made him nutty, kids aren't normally born physco, they become like that, doesn't anyone "know cause and effect" you are skirting around the real issue as to why this guy killed, and if our family problems are not fixed these killings will continue, not just in the USA but all over the world, the real issue is family breakdown, but no-one here, or the media ever want to talk about it, bc it effects them as well and they don't want to be made to look bad, the only real journalist that talks about these sorts of issues or makes any real sense is Melanie Phillips a British journalist and author, and others which I will not mention!! |
Good luck, its much easier to take away their means to hurts lots of people than it I is to hope people bring up their kids properly. |
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12/18/2012 06:23:12 PM · #503 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
I was 6 when I recieved my 1st .22.... I was taught from the get go how to handle a weapon and how to treat it. This is a major thing that we are lacking |
So did this killer, and he was quite proficient. It's interesting that the people who claim nothing can be done tend to be the same ones who advocate guns for self-defense, while the people who don't demand guns for self-defense are the ones with the courage to try. |
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12/18/2012 06:24:31 PM · #504 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Originally posted by sfalice:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Like I have been saying all along...we need to teach responsible gun ownership....i.e. hunter's safety and any weapons safety course. |
A whole bunch of us have been saying that, Cowboy.
That's why a proficiency test and license would be helpful, no? |
Right but it has also been put out there ALOT..ban the guns...ban the guns |
Of course. Some guy just mowed down a bunch of innocent children quickly without batting an eye, the easiest fix is to take away the means. |
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12/18/2012 06:26:38 PM · #505 |
| "Lead by example" speaks for itself. And a large part of America is leading with the example that killing people is an OK punishment (albeit not CT). Extremely primitive in my simple head but I suppose cost effective... |
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12/18/2012 06:26:47 PM · #506 |
So... do I need to make a separate thread for those of us that want to discuss mental health? Cus that discussion keeps getting over run with gun fights.
Which I've been seeing over and over again is a big fight between two straw men.
The reality is if you take the word "gun control" away and just lay out specifics like closing the Gun Show Loophole, most rational people tend to agree. I think, really, we are all agreeing more than disagreeing in this thread (which IS heartening) but we're all still fighting based on "I'm in column A, and you're in column B" without realizing there is a great amount of overlap. |
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12/18/2012 06:27:00 PM · #507 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by Neat:
Originally posted by TrollMan:
In my mind, it's not as complicated as many make it.
It was a nutty mom and a kid with a troubled upbringing. The kid went spastic and the results were obviously devastating. End of story.
This particular case probably wouldn't have happened if guns weren't allowed and his mom weren't collecting them...just like 9/11 wouldn't have happened if aircraft weren't allowed. We're not blaming the planes, are we? We're only blaming the people behind it. Seems logical to me. |
Thankyou trollman:
I see once again the real issue has been just ignored, the kid was nutty, yes, what made him nutty, kids aren't normally born physco, they become like that, doesn't anyone "know cause and effect" you are skirting around the real issue as to why this guy killed, and if our family problems are not fixed these killings will continue, not just in the USA but all over the world, the real issue is family breakdown, but no-one here, or the media ever want to talk about it, bc it effects them as well and they don't want to be made to look bad, the only real journalist that talks about these sorts of issues or makes any real sense is Melanie Phillips a British journalist and author, and others which I will not mention!! |
Good luck, its much easier to take away their means to hurts lots of people than it I is to hope people bring up their kids properly. |
Yes that's bc this world only deals with the effects and not the causes, look at our doctors, same ole, same ole, here have a drug, don't worry about your diet, people aren't living longer, they're taking longer to die!! |
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12/18/2012 06:28:56 PM · #508 |
| I'm not disagreeing with you. |
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12/18/2012 06:30:26 PM · #509 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Originally posted by sfalice:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Like I have been saying all along...we need to teach responsible gun ownership....i.e. hunter's safety and any weapons safety course. |
A whole bunch of us have been saying that, Cowboy.
That's why a proficiency test and license would be helpful, no? |
Right but it has also been put out there ALOT..ban the guns...ban the guns |
Sure, unfortunately, strong resistance to these logical measures escalates the problem to simply "Ban Everything!" |
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12/18/2012 06:31:33 PM · #510 |
| I don't know, it seems that solution to gun violence isn't more guns. I'm pretty sure there was is good reason we don't have a wild west any longer. |
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12/18/2012 06:33:34 PM · #511 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
So... do I need to make a separate thread for those of us that want to discuss mental health? Cus that discussion keeps getting over run with gun fights.
Which I've been seeing over and over again is a big fight between two straw men.
The reality is if you take the word "gun control" away and just lay out specifics like closing the Gun Show Loophole, most rational people tend to agree. I think, really, we are all agreeing more than disagreeing in this thread (which IS heartening) but we're all still fighting based on "I'm in column A, and you're in column B" without realizing there is a great amount of overlap. |
These are two of the major issues that need to be addressed.
Probably it isn't possible to discuss them in the same thread.
I'm sure you'd get a lot of discussion if you did start a new one. |
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12/18/2012 06:33:38 PM · #512 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
So... do I need to make a separate thread for those of us that want to discuss mental health? Cus that discussion keeps getting over run with gun fights.
Which I've been seeing over and over again is a big fight between two straw men.
The reality is if you take the word "gun control" away and just lay out specifics like closing the Gun Show Loophole, most rational people tend to agree. I think, really, we are all agreeing more than disagreeing in this thread (which IS heartening) but we're all still fighting based on "I'm in column A, and you're in column B" without realizing there is a great amount of overlap. |
What's to talk about? Crazy people go crazy. Maybe we should lock them up so when they go crazy, they don't bother the rest of us.
Message edited by author 2012-12-18 18:34:37. |
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12/18/2012 06:35:20 PM · #513 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
So... do I need to make a separate thread for those of us that want to discuss mental health? Cus that discussion keeps getting over run with gun fights.
Which I've been seeing over and over again is a big fight between two straw men.
The reality is if you take the word "gun control" away and just lay out specifics like closing the Gun Show Loophole, most rational people tend to agree. I think, really, we are all agreeing more than disagreeing in this thread (which IS heartening) but we're all still fighting based on "I'm in column A, and you're in column B" without realizing there is a great amount of overlap. |
What's to talk about? Crazy people go crazy. Maybe we should lock them up so when they go crazy, they don't bother the rest of us. |
That's it right there. That is not true. That is completely ignorant and false. |
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12/18/2012 06:37:00 PM · #514 |
Originally posted by Neat:
Yes that's bc this world only deals with the effects and not the causes, look at our doctors, same ole, same ole, here have a drug, don't worry about your diet, people aren't living longer, they're taking longer to die!! |
Yes. This is why we are dropping bombs and sending drones abroad instead of building schools and providing resources.
Terrorist are made not born. The same with murders. |
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12/18/2012 06:37:29 PM · #515 |
| I'm losing track. Is the consensus that the shooting is the fault of the Occupy Movement? |
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12/18/2012 06:41:19 PM · #516 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'm losing track. Is the consensus that the shooting is the fault of the Occupy Movement? |
Well, that furthered the discussion quite a bit. |
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12/18/2012 06:42:18 PM · #517 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'm losing track. Is the consensus that the shooting is the fault of the Occupy Movement? |
:P I know I kinda hijacked a second there. My point is why is THIS right fought so tooth and nail over to be unrestricted while other rights and disregarded and laughed at, at least when the "free speech" being practiced is something you don't agree with. |
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12/18/2012 06:48:50 PM · #518 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Neat:
Yes that's bc this world only deals with the effects and not the causes, look at our doctors, same ole, same ole, here have a drug, don't worry about your diet, people aren't living longer, they're taking longer to die!! |
Yes. This is why we are dropping bombs and sending drones abroad instead of building schools and providing resources.
Terrorist are made not born. The same with murders. |
I agree. But the type of change you are hoping for will take generations. |
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12/18/2012 06:52:40 PM · #519 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
I'm not disagreeing with you. |
I know ;) |
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12/18/2012 07:02:12 PM · #520 |
Melanie Phillips is one of the worst things about living in Britain.
Just saying. ;) |
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12/18/2012 07:10:20 PM · #521 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'm losing track. Is the consensus that the shooting is the fault of the Occupy Movement? |
I think there's a faction, at least, that believes the "right to bear arms" is important enough that a little collateral damage here and there is an acceptable price, but the right to free speech stops when it starts inconveniencing the plutocracy. Not sure, but I think that's the position... |
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12/18/2012 07:11:36 PM · #522 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Neat:
Yes that's bc this world only deals with the effects and not the causes, look at our doctors, same ole, same ole, here have a drug, don't worry about your diet, people aren't living longer, they're taking longer to die!! |
Yes. This is why we are dropping bombs and sending drones abroad instead of building schools and providing resources.
Terrorist are made not born. The same with murders. |
I agree. But the type of change you are hoping for will take generations. |
Not necessarily. Education is a first. To say "throw all the nuts away" does nothing to help the problem. That's what we've BEEN doing for years with mental institutions which give people less rights than in jails. It's sick. It's truly wrong. It is up to an informed populous, and truly informed, not just webmd tidbits, to look out for their families and put on the pressure for better mental health care. The information is out there. Neuroscience is making leaps and bounds, the schools need to catch up and teach our "professionals" these new findings, because many people don't self educate, they expect they learn everything they need to at school, but they don't.
I gotta say, this whole thing, more than anything else, has made me reconsider staying out of the psych industry... |
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12/18/2012 07:16:34 PM · #523 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'm losing track. Is the consensus that the shooting is the fault of the Occupy Movement? |
I think there's a faction, at least, that believes the "right to bear arms" is important enough that a little collateral damage here and there is an acceptable price, but the right to free speech stops when it starts inconveniencing the plutocracy. Not sure, but I think that's the position... |
;) you got it |
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12/18/2012 07:45:52 PM · #524 |
trouble is most people arent asking the right questions about this terrible tragedy! like it or not its an USA sickness that they stick to this outdated model of the 2nd ammendment! BS! they accept government bringing in homeland laws to restrict airport and other movements and spying on people for all the wrong reasons under the guise of "Security" and yet still have laws to own and buy guns as readily as they do, total hypocrisy! you can live a life without guns but they dont want to and cite outdated constitution which government is happy to ignore and write laws about the safety of people and spying on everyone in the same breath... sorry but if you cant see that irony your not thinking!
plenty of other societies have less problems without guns... yes there will be violence but not on the scale you see all the time in america! its all about money!
also noboody asks the questions what happened to make the youngster do what he did, what does society need to do to stop alienating and segregating individuals to the point where they snap! yes society, you, your kids your grandparents, brothers neighbours all society... he is different lets exclude him regardless of how small it starts, thats the seed.. and the sooner we all take responsibility for making fun of individuals while excluding them and hoping they wont grow into a killer the better... bullying at school, home, social media, news etc its all the same! its not acceptible and goes on all the time! work places, social places you see it constantly.. rich v poor, neighbourhood v neighbourhood, its utterly pointless... wars and resources and fighting and nationalism and flag waving all add to it... and yes in a world thats healthy you dont need competition and advercy to get somewhere but thats how society sees it because its how its always worked... total BS..
nobody will mourn the killer because its someone to blame and its terrible what he did but something pushed him to do it and we may never know but its easy to blame him and only him! blame yourselves and society and government that you elect and allow them to push you around and be dictated to by corporate and private interests in the name of so called democracy, which its not its an autocrocy and hypocracy and americans and other western societies believe the propaganda telling them otherwise! yes i will not be popular for what i say but thats the price you pay for reality of whats going on.
i feel for the families, friends, and anyone in the community and parent who has children, its terrible and i wouldnt wish to see anyone die at all! its unecessary all of it! but its not one youngster with a gun that is the problem, the sooner people wake up to it the better! |
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12/18/2012 07:53:16 PM · #525 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'm losing track. Is the consensus that the shooting is the fault of the Occupy Movement? |
I think there's a faction, at least, that believes the "right to bear arms" is important enough that a little collateral damage here and there is an acceptable price, but the right to free speech stops when it starts inconveniencing the plutocracy. Not sure, but I think that's the position... |
I'm pretty sure more people have been arrested for using their 2nd amendment weapon illegally than have been arrested for using their first amendment voice illegally (ie. camping in a public square, etc.) during the Occupy Movement.
Message edited by author 2012-12-18 19:53:58. |
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