Another school shooting - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

12/17/2012 05:43:25 PM · #404

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

If someone wants to kill someone they will do it...There are thousands of ways.

You are completely right!! But how many ways are there to kill someone when you suddenly see the `red mist` and go to the cupboard and grab the nearest item for killing? You can't construct a bomb or poison gas or fly a plane into a building on the spur of the moment - those ways take time, money and planning. Sure, you could take a knife, but you run the risk of being overpowered pretty quickly. But to suddenly `snap` - the gun will always be the easiest way to purposely destroy lives in as little time as possible and without breaking the law until you pull that trigger.

The gun is empowering to the person holding it and traumatising to the person its being pointed at - I have had a gun pointed at me before and as much as I feel I could look after myself (to a certain degree) if someone pulled a knife on me, when this gun was pointed at me I froze - I was seriously terrifed - and that's the thing with guns - if you are unarmed you can't really do anything!

(FYI, the gun incident was earlier this year in a field I use for Astronomy, a couple of us had setup (with the farmer permission) and we inadvertantly bumped into a some game keepers who thought we was there stealing their pheasants - four BIG guys jump out of a landrover in combat fatigues with shotguns (legally held and on private land)- I have never been so scared! Once we explained we had permission (and they made a quick phonecall to the farmer) they were nice as pie, but for a few seconds I really thought I might cry).

PGerst

Canon EOS-20D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

12/17/2012 05:43:48 PM · #405

Because they are used to kill people. Because they are the quickest and easiest tool used to kill people. Because they are abundant. Because the are accessible to those who should never have them.

Yes, to a particular individual such as yourself they are probably very safe. If you keep it locked in a manner than no one can get to it except you, wonderful. I don't think anyone has any concerns about that.

But, as a collective society, they are too mature of an item not to be hated by others affected.

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

Why all the hatred for guns....

Simms

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

12/17/2012 05:44:01 PM · #406

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by Simms:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Why all the hatred for guns....Take the nut from behind the gun.....don't just take the guns. I am a proud gun owner and I am trying to grow my collection before Obama gets a ban going.

Because a nutcase without a gun is just a nutcase, whats he going to do? Shout you to death?.. A nutcase with a gun is a massacre waiting to happen.

When I was growing up, there was a guy down the street who was maybe 5 years older than me. When he was 19 or 20, he beat his dad to death with the leg of a chair because his dad wouldn't change the channel on the TV.

But if he tried to do that in a mall or school he could be stopped pretty sharpish.. another nonsense argument.

cowboy221977

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

12/17/2012 05:52:55 PM · #407

Originally posted by Simms:

The gun is empowering to the person holding it and traumatising to the person its being pointed at - I have had a gun pointed at me before and as much as I feel I could look after myself (to a certain degree) if someone pulled a knife on me, when this gun was pointed at me I froze - I was seriously terrifed - and that's the thing with guns - if you are unarmed you can't really do anything!

(FYI, the gun incident was earlier this year in a field I use for Astronomy, a couple of us had setup (with the farmer permission) and we inadvertantly bumped into a some game keepers who thought we was there stealing their pheasants - four BIG guys jump out of a landrover in combat fatigues with shotguns (legally held and on private land)- I have never been so scared! Once we explained we had permission (and they made a quick phonecall to the farmer) they were nice as pie, but for a few seconds I really thought I might cry).

Yeah I'v been shot at more time than I care to admit....but I like being able to return fire...And yes a few of those times were in the US the rest were in Iraq and on a daily basis. If you arent afraid than your a damn fool. My point is...is it better to be shot at and do nothing...or to get shot at and return fire..This is why I carry a handgun in my truck and if I am out of my truck it is on my side...except for in restricted areas. I believe in being prepared.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

12/17/2012 05:55:33 PM · #408

Originally posted by hihosilver:

Originally posted by scalvert:
Our high school is currently under lockdown after a suspicious man with a gun was spotted nearby. My daughter is there. I'm sure we'll be dealing with things like this for a long time.

Being your daughter, I'm sure she will have handle the events of the coming days with calm strength and an alert presence of mind. Dealing with the world exactly as it is while working towards a world as we'd all like it to be will be the truth she will share with her own kids one day. Strength of character builds generations, and the people of Newtown have that in abundance.

Very kind of you. I wasn't too concerned about the lockdown today (I think it turned out to be a guy with an umbrella at a train station), but the kids and teachers were understandably freaked out. They have better things to do in school than huddle in a corner with the blinds drawn, and I refuse to believe our constitution's authors had this in mind when they drafted a provision for militias to defend the states at a time when the U.S. had no standing army or police.

It is reassuring that this event has provoked more intense and serious discussion than in the past, and with signs that this time it won't be all talk. The claim that gun control cannot be effective while maintaining ownership has been disproven in Australia. The claim that pervasive guns can never be controlled has been disproven in Rio de Janeiro. The myth that guns are widely used for self defense is just thatâ�� a myth. Proponents who make this argument usually point to Gary Kleck's debunked survey extrapolation of 2.5 million defensive uses per year (more than the total number of crimes committed with firearms), while actual case studies suggest the real number is less than 1000. Even sites like thearmedcitizen devoted to documenting defensive gun use, can't come up with 1000 cases per year. Meanwhile 341,000 guns are stolen per year, and for every defensive use of guns there are multiple accidents, domestic assaults and suicides. It looks like this may finally be the event that knocked some sense into us so we can get past the excuses.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

12/17/2012 06:07:37 PM · #409

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

My point is...is it better to be shot at and do nothing...or to get shot at and return fire.

In this case, you ARE essentially advocating doing nothing. Americans have been shot at way too many times and done nothing. No more. Time to return fire and reduce the instances of getting shot at in the first place. Outside of wildly exaggerated survey extrapolation, the defense argument is firing blanks.

cowboy221977

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

12/17/2012 06:12:42 PM · #410

You missunderstood. It is better to shoot back

Simms

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

12/17/2012 06:31:50 PM · #411

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

You missunderstood. It is better to shoot back

But surely a vaccine is better in cases like this than fighting fire with fire? Lets not get into the position where we need to shoot back.

And maybe, just maybe, regardless of the situation, some of us just don't like the thought of having to shoot someone and killing them, we'd rather they not be there in the first place. With a gun. You are clearly comfortable with shooting another human - personally I am not.

Message edited by author 2012-12-17 18:33:28.

bhuge

Canon EOS-550D Rebel T2i

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

12/17/2012 06:42:44 PM · #412

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Cory:
Hmm..

I must have missed the: "Dear friends who think prohibitions are always destined to failure." section.

Some prohibitions are more likely to fail than others -- it's hard to make an AR-15 in your bathtub or grow one under a couple of lights ...

Why bother with bathtubs and grow lights when you can simply print one in your office.

Good lord, do you not even have time to read the articles you post?

"successfully fired an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle with a 3D-printed lower receiver. They were able to fire off only six rounds before the part failed"

They printed only one part of the entire gun, and even then the thing broke after six rounds.

Message edited by author 2012-12-17 18:43:08.

Venser

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II

Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO M.Zuiko

12/17/2012 07:40:04 PM · #413

Originally posted by Simms:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
You missunderstood. It is better to shoot back

But surely a vaccine is better in cases like this than fighting fire with fire? Lets not get into the position where we need to shoot back.

And maybe, just maybe, regardless of the situation, some of us just don't like the thought of having to shoot someone and killing them, we'd rather they not be there in the first place. With a gun. You are clearly comfortable with shooting another human - personally I am not.

You have to remember, most people who advocate shooting back have aim like Deadshot and never miss their target.

Message edited by author 2012-12-17 19:40:18.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

12/17/2012 07:44:35 PM · #414

before we ban all the guns, can we take out the Westboro folks before they are protesting the funerals of these kids..

blindjustice

Canon EOS-7D

12/17/2012 07:46:16 PM · #415

Anonymous vows to destroy WBC

Originally posted by mike_311:

before we ban all the guns, can we take out the Westboro folks before they are protesting the funerals of these kids..

Look back int this thread for the rooum post about Anonymous taking them on.

Message edited by author 2012-12-17 19:47:22.

12/17/2012 07:50:37 PM · #416

yeah i heard that.

good.

bhuge

Canon EOS-550D Rebel T2i

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

12/17/2012 08:07:37 PM · #417

Originally posted by blindjustice:

Anonymous vows to destroy WBC
Originally posted by mike_311:
before we ban all the guns, can we take out the Westboro folks before they are protesting the funerals of these kids..

Look back int this thread for the rooum post about Anonymous taking them on.

I guess even the KKK is going to counter protest Westboro. You really have to be a despicable organization to make a horrendous group like the KKK look good in comparison.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G

12/17/2012 08:11:57 PM · #418

i cant for the life of me figure out how the supreme court calls what they do an acceptable form of free speech when their site is littered with hate speech.

sfalice

Canon PowerShot SX60 HS

12/18/2012 08:38:31 AM · #419

Originally posted by mike_311:

before we ban all the guns, can we take out the Westboro folks before they are protesting the funerals of these kids..

...and here we are, back at square one. Sadly.

nygold

Nikon D5000

12/18/2012 09:30:35 AM · #420

To change the subject a little here what do you guys think about guard dogs?
I know in N.Y. all schools have atleast 1 security guard depending on the size of the school.
What about a trained German Shepard at the main entrance with the security guard?
It's one of the thing many of us do to protect our own homes.
Maybe I'm crazy I don't know, I'm just trying to think of a solution or a way to buy a little time.

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

12/18/2012 10:19:20 AM · #421

Originally posted by nygold:

Yeah.. You think guns are dangerous? Let's put attack dogs with all of our children - these dogs are trained to attack, and instinctual chase and kill anything that is running away and screaming. Do you see any way that might go badly? I sure do.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

12/18/2012 10:23:20 AM · #422

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by nygold:
To change the subject a little here what do you guys think about guard dogs?
I know in N.Y. all schools have atleast 1 security guard depending on the size of the school.
What about a trained German Shepard at the main entrance with the security guard?
It's one of the thing many of us do to protect our own homes.
Maybe I'm crazy I don't know, I'm just trying to think of a solution or a way to buy a little time.

Yeah.. You think guns are dangerous? Let's put attack dogs with all of our children - these dogs are trained to attack, and instinctual chase and kill anything that is running away and screaming. Do you see any way that might go badly? I sure do.

That's just what I was thinking. On the plus side, it'll reduce the number of wee ones asking for bathroom breaks...

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

12/18/2012 10:35:00 AM · #423

Originally posted by bhuge:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Cory:
Hmm..

I must have missed the: "Dear friends who think prohibitions are always destined to failure." section.

Some prohibitions are more likely to fail than others -- it's hard to make an AR-15 in your bathtub or grow one under a couple of lights ...

Why bother with bathtubs and grow lights when you can simply print one in your office.

Good lord, do you not even have time to read the articles you post?

"successfully fired an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle with a 3D-printed lower receiver. They were able to fire off only six rounds before the part failed"

They printed only one part of the entire gun, and even then the thing broke after six rounds.

Of course I read it. Since some people can't think beyond right now. Let's go into it.

On a firearm, one part receives the serial number from the manufacturer and it's sale is regulated. For an AR-15, that part is the lower receiver. If you want to buy any of the other parts, you just need to have the money. To buy a lower receiver, you have to go through the same process (Background check, affidavit and all that) as you do when buying an entire gun.

While the material used in the printer to create this weapon isn't quite up to par, the technology is advancing rapidly. 10 or even 5 years ago, a ~$3k desktop 3D printer marketed to home users was unthinkable. At that time, Industrial 3D machines with the same capabilities as this current $3k desktop machine cost ~$100k. Currently, industrial 3D printers are able to make metal parts and there's no reason not to expect this to filter down to the home 3D printing market. Also, the lower receiver design is intended to be made from metal, but it could be modified to be more durable when made in the plastic 3D printed material.

So, while it's not currently possible to 3D print an entire AR-15, it is possible to print the regulated component of one and have it function at least 6 times. As 3D printing technology advances (and it is doing so in leaps and bounds), you can certainly expect:

1)an increase in the capability of home 3d printers to print more durable versions of regulated firearm components
2) an increase in the number of functional firearm components that can be printed by someone using a desktop 3D printer.