Another school shooting - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 50mm f1.2L

12/17/2012 04:03:48 PM · #377

I'd like to add my own expression of sympathy to those already offered in this post to the families and communities who underwent and are still dealing with this tragedy.

To the discussion so far, and as a reply to some of the sentiments, I'd add these thoughts:

The reality is that, with around 300 million guns currently in circulation in the US, gun control laws are almost pointless. Anybody who wants a gun badly enough can get one. Even if not another gun was sold from tomorrow that wouldn't stop a determined, crazed gunman going on a rampage next week or next year. Anyway, given the size of the industry and the pro-gun lobby and the weakness of the government, vested interests are going to ensure that guns are available. To me, the problem is with the attitude to firearms. From US history to Hollywood to government foreign policy, all problems, social, personal, whatever can be solved with deadly force. The wealthy have guns to defend themselves and their property, the felon has guns to enforce his criminal desires, and, as we saw last week, the deranged and disturbed has guns (or access to guns) to indulge his own unknowable purposes.

Where the pro-gun lobby is being disingenuous is when they argue that a car can be a deadly weapon etc etc. The real point is: We don't celebrate the use of a car as a deadly weapon. we don't advertise it's stopping power at 100 yards. we don't advise lone females to always have a car in case they come under attack. (And here I recognise that guns are just as prized and cherished amongst criminals, too) Apart from the obvious impracticalities of using a car (or baseball bat or whatever) as a weapon of mass murder, none of these are embedded in the mind of (some of) the public as the ultimate tool of personal problem-solving. For most gun-loving people, this sick itch can be safely scratched by going to the range, stroking weapon(s) in the privacy of one's own home, obsessing online about the definition of semi vs full automatic, shooting at birds in a forest. But the price we pay is when the crazed individual does what a lot of other people are doing or are prepared to do - exercises an inclination to solve his own problems with a weapon.

So, whenever somebody, anybody, does that gun thing - goes to a gun show, buys a gun (or 6) for fun, home defence, hunting, etc. as he is perfectly at liberty to do (as enshrined in law) he is feeding that gun culture and part of that gun culture means that when certain disturbed young men feel they can't continue with life, the impulse is not to jump off a bridge, (or drive a car into a crowd!) the impulse is to go out in a blaze of (semi)automatic gunfire. It's the American way.

I'd love to be wrong, but my bet is that nothing will change apart from sometime in the future some sick loser will try to 'outdo' this last atrocity.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

12/17/2012 04:14:43 PM · #378

I dont post much here anymore - but reading this thread I just can't see why anyone would think a restriction on guns is a bad thing? We had a massacre at a primary school a number of years back in Dunblane in Scotland, the attacker killed a load of kids, around the same age as the victims in the recent tragedy with a legally held firearm, as a result handguns were banned - and to an extent it has worked. I cannot find fault in any of Scalverts arguments - the Americans whine and bitch about the 2nd amendment, but when that was written surely it allowed people to bear arms that were around in those days - if they knew that years down the line people could pick up weapons that could fire 100s of rounds a minute instead or 1 or 2 a minute the amendment wouldn't of been made.

Also, don't be moronic enough to bring the `knives should be banned` argument to the table - if I was in a room tasked with protecting 30 kids from a knife welding maniac I feel I could actually be in with a chance of protecting them, put me in the room with an assault rifle and I'd have no chance..

Bans guns and stop the senseless massacres.

Scalvert, glad yours are safe & sound.

robs

Canon EOS R6 Mk II

12/17/2012 04:24:19 PM · #379

Originally posted by ray_mefarso:

The reality is that, with around 300 million guns currently in circulation in the US, gun control laws are almost pointless.

Part of that Australian program I linked above included gov buy back of the ban weapons, so they bought and destroyed a fairly large nbr of weapons - there was a grace period to turn them over before become fully criminal.

Originally posted by ray_mefarso:

I'd love to be wrong, but my bet is that nothing will change apart from sometime in the future some sick loser will try to 'outdo' this last atrocity.

I hope your wrong as well... but my brain say nothing substantial will change and there will be something worse.

Message edited by author 2012-12-17 16:26:26.

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

12/17/2012 04:35:49 PM · #380

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by MinsoPhoto:
Banning all guns will not work in my opinion

That's probably why nobody has suggested it.

yet. . . . .

Originally posted by simms:

Bans guns and stop the senseless massacres.

Mike

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

12/17/2012 04:37:07 PM · #381

Originally posted by robs:

Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
I'd love to be wrong, but my bet is that nothing will change apart from sometime in the future some sick loser will try to 'outdo' this last atrocity.

I hope your wrong as well... but my brain say nothing substantial will change and there will be something worse.

and when do we start to blame the media for sensationalizing it? It's the root cause of these attention whores trying to outdo themselves.

snaffles

Nikon D7100

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

12/17/2012 04:46:19 PM · #382

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I could go on a batshit, crazy rampage right now, but I wouldn't shoot anyone...

Why?

No guns in my house.

Just chainsaws :-)

Pfft, amateur! C'mon Slippy, you're Canadian. Go nice em to death :-)

12/17/2012 04:47:49 PM · #383

Originally posted by Venser:

Who gives a flying shit about this semantic battle over fully/semi/non-automatic weapons?
A guns purpose is to incapacitate it's target. Arguing over semantics is pointless. It doesn't move anything forward.

I sure incapacitated those tin cans and pieces of paper the other day...let me tell you.

12/17/2012 04:49:04 PM · #384

How about this. The authorities post the images of the aftermath of the school massacres (Columbine, Dunblane & Newtown) for everyone to see, not just the pools of blood, but the crime scene photos showing these little kiddies with the back of their heads blown out, shattered jaws, brains laying in coagulating puddles of blood, a screaming rictus face of a 6 year old blonde girl who will never open her christmas presents or have a cuddle with mummy and daddy.

Forever 6.

Show them.

NRA will lose support overnight.

Also, I am going to show my ignorance here, but why can't the 2nd amendment just be... changed? Its almost like the USAs own Sharia law - outdated and doesn't really have a place in todays society.

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II

12/17/2012 04:49:56 PM · #385

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by Venser:
Who gives a flying shit about this semantic battle over fully/semi/non-automatic weapons?
A guns purpose is to incapacitate it's target. Arguing over semantics is pointless. It doesn't move anything forward.

I sure incapacitated those tin cans and pieces of paper the other day...let me tell you.

The shooter sure incapcitated those 27 innocents as well.. let me tell you.

Venser

Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO M.Zuiko

12/17/2012 04:50:23 PM · #386

Originally posted by Spork99:

You're being asinine.

blindjustice

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

12/17/2012 04:54:05 PM · #387

Replying to pro gun friends...

all the replies in one neat package.

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

12/17/2012 04:54:45 PM · #388

Originally posted by Venser:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by Venser:
Who gives a flying shit about this semantic battle over fully/semi/non-automatic weapons?
A guns purpose is to incapacitate it's target. Arguing over semantics is pointless. It doesn't move anything forward.

I sure incapacitated those tin cans and pieces of paper the other day...let me tell you.
You're being asinine.

No more so than you're being ignorant.

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

12/17/2012 04:56:17 PM · #389

Originally posted by blindjustice:

Replying to pro gun friends...

all the replies in one neat package.

Hmm..

I must have missed the: "Dear friends who think prohibitions are always destined to failure." section.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

12/17/2012 05:00:35 PM · #390

Originally posted by Cory:

Hmm..

I must have missed the: "Dear friends who think prohibitions are always destined to failure." section.

Some prohibitions are more likely to fail than others -- it's hard to make an AR-15 in your bathtub or grow one under a couple of lights ...

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

12/17/2012 05:08:35 PM · #391

Originally posted by blindjustice:

Replying to pro gun friends...

all the replies in one neat package.

Not really.

Because no one even acknowledges the controls that are in place and how they could be improved upon. Their knee-jerk response is "Ban this, ban that", while they run about thinking that everyday people have access to fully automatic weaponry. To those of you who say the NRA's stubborn refusal to consider ANY further restriction on guns is unreasonable, you're probably right, but they're just a counterbalance to the vehement anti-gun people who think it would be just as well to repeal the 2nd Amendment and make gun ownership a crime or make owning and using a gun so onerous that the right becomes a privilege.

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

12/17/2012 05:09:32 PM · #392

Originally posted by Simms:

+100,000

Obviously I'm not a hunter (no squirrel stew for me!), but I always assumed hunting was a sport of skill. Guns can be interesting -- though I failed miserably at skeet shooting. But I don't understand the need for semi-automatic weapons with multiple 30 round magazines. Some of these children were hit as many as 11 times each.

Message edited by author 2012-12-17 17:11:50.

12/17/2012 05:15:53 PM · #393

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Cory:
Hmm..

I must have missed the: "Dear friends who think prohibitions are always destined to failure." section.

Some prohibitions are more likely to fail than others -- it's hard to make an AR-15 in your bathtub or grow one under a couple of lights ...

Why bother with bathtubs and grow lights when you can simply print one in your office.

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

12/17/2012 05:17:59 PM · #394

Originally posted by Simms:

Exactly. The shooter, a person, did.

Message edited by author 2012-12-17 17:20:41.

cowboy221977

Canon EOS-60D

12/17/2012 05:18:58 PM · #395

Why all the hatred for guns....Take the nut from behind the gun.....don't just take the guns. I am a proud gun owner and I am trying to grow my collection before Obama gets a ban going.

12/17/2012 05:21:32 PM · #396

Because it's the easiest reaction.

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

Why all the hatred for guns....Take the nut from behind the gun.....don't just take the guns. I am a proud gun owner and I am trying to grow my collection before Obama gets a ban going.

12/17/2012 05:25:25 PM · #397

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

Why all the hatred for guns....Take the nut from behind the gun.....don't just take the guns. I am a proud gun owner and I am trying to grow my collection before Obama gets a ban going.

Because a nutcase without a gun is just a nutcase, whats he going to do? Shout you to death?.. A nutcase with a gun is a massacre waiting to happen.

blindjustice

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

12/17/2012 05:28:15 PM · #398

Well Cowboy, get them while you can, and lets get it straight-
Gun violence, not Obama, will be the reason for restrictive legislation.

@spork- its not "knee jerk" when its time and time again, its more like the straw on the camel's back, or in this case, the guns that killed the kids.

ray_mefarso