| Author | Thread |
|
|
12/05/2012 01:19:45 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
A suspect has been taken into custody. If there had been no arrests made, would it be more acceptable to print the photo? It certainly gets the public more interested in catching the creep who did it. But is that a good enough reason to have such a photo out there? |
It's a good question, although in this particular incident the pictures of the suspect are separate to the ones of the guy actually on the tracks, so they could be published without risk of the the severe emotional damage this could have for the mans family (even ignoring the other damage this could cause, e.g. front page of a paper; young kids will be seeing that image too). |
|
|
|
12/05/2012 01:24:55 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Cut the guy some slack. The truth is most people in a situation like that will freeze up and fail to act unless they've been trained to operate under that kind of stress. So many think they will "rise to the occasion" and perform great things in those kinds of situations, but the reality is that people will sink to the level they've been trained. Most people are "trained" to respond in stress situations by staying out of the way, not by acting and getting involved. Haven't you noticed that people who do perform acts of heroism are typically people who at some point have had training that simulates those kind of stress situations, military, police, fire department, EMT etc? |
Doing nothing would have been excusable. |
|
|
|
12/05/2012 01:32:36 PM · #28 |
its always interesting to read how people cast negative judgment another without ever experiencing something like this.
when you get put into situation where you have to react fast i imagine you act on instinct, i cant say what instinctual reaction i have having never been expected to use it nor been trained in acting quickly. its one thing if there is no train coming and no one helped and no imminent threat of life but if that train is bearing down i can't fault the photographer.
you shouldn't be expected to endanger your own life to save another unless you are emotionally (e.g. wife, kids) inclined to do so. |
|
|
|
12/05/2012 01:41:19 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Cut the guy some slack. The truth is most people in a situation like that will freeze up and fail to act unless they've been trained to operate under that kind of stress. So many think they will "rise to the occasion" and perform great things in those kinds of situations, but the reality is that people will sink to the level they've been trained. Most people are "trained" to respond in stress situations by staying out of the way, not by acting and getting involved. Haven't you noticed that people who do perform acts of heroism are typically people who at some point have had training that simulates those kind of stress situations, military, police, fire department, EMT etc? |
This wasn't a high stress or even a panic situation (unless your the guy in the tracks) until the train starts coming.
I was standing on the platform at Dekalb ave in Brooklyn and the guy next to me dropped his keys on to the tracks. He thought it was best to jump down and get them. He didn't realize how deep it was to the track bed from the platform, it's around 5 feet or so.
He couldn't get back up and we saw the lights of the train reflecting off of the tile wall. Me and another guy reached down and grabbed him under his armpits and yanked him back to the platform.
The photog in this case had a choice, take pictures or help. He chose poorly.
He tried to say he didn't have the time. His pictures show the man on the tracks and the train isn't even in the station yet. |
|
|
|
12/05/2012 01:46:33 PM · #30 |
Hmm... Looks like he might be telling a bit of a story huh? Of course, given that there were 40 other people there, it's certainly not fair to just center our attention on the photographer. |
|
|
|
12/05/2012 01:51:45 PM · #31 |
| Im beginning to think this WHOLE story stinks.... |
|
|
|
12/05/2012 01:53:03 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by HCvE:
Im beginning to think this WHOLE story stinks.... |
The only way it could really get any "better" is if we were to find out that the photographer paid the pusher. |
|
|
|
12/05/2012 02:30:24 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Hmm... Looks like he might be telling a bit of a story huh? Of course, given that there were 40 other people there, it's certainly not fair to just center our attention on the photographer. |
The thing is though, you can expect many people to panic or at least not know how to react in this situation. The photographer demonstrated clear thought and so may (depending on who you believe) have made a concious decision to not attempt to save the mans life. |
|
|
|
12/05/2012 02:39:56 PM · #34 |
| I think the photo shouldn't have been shown but people want to see that stuff and it sells papers. A bigger problem I have is how the New York Post ran the cover. Very distasteful and those who support them should evaluate themselves. |
|
|
|
12/05/2012 02:48:13 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by nygold:
This wasn't a high stress or even a panic situation (unless your the guy in the tracks) until the train starts coming.
|
By your measure, neither is any situation where people need help; auto accident, mugging, sudden heart attack, a man choking in a restaurant etc. Unless, of course, you're the victim or you choose to place yourself into the situation by getting involved. People' instincts will tell them to avoid such situations by not getting involved out of self preservation. In most cases, people will just drive by an accident or will just stand around and watch (or take pics) while people die because they don't know what to do, because they are conditioned to "not interfere" and to "wait for people who know what they're doing". It happens all the time. It's not a moral shortfall at least not on the part of the individual, perhaps it is on a societal level though. |
|
|
|
12/05/2012 02:53:27 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by HawkinsT:
The photographer demonstrated clear thought ... |
Funny, I thought you were arguing that what he did was insane or idiotic. In a state of panic or high-stress people are apt to do all sorts of things, not all of which appear rational or logical in retrospect. |
|
|
|
12/05/2012 03:34:09 PM · #37 |
One thing that also plays into it is the fact that someone just pushed the man, and fear may also play into not taking action.
However, if that was truly the case, you would thhink that he would actually have hidden the camera instead of using it.
Also, someone pointed out that getting something off the tracks isnt thaat big of a deal, so perhaps he thought the guy could make it up without a problem and realized it too late.
We'll never know.
But I do know it takes some time for the brain to process things. You see something, and most people cant react immediately. It takes a bit to realize that there is a problem. Hey, did I really see that? He's trying to get out. It's probably at that point that he realizes that the guy cant get out and starts to do something about it. It's not and every day occurence. If there's no train, it's probably not an immediate thought in his mind.
But then again, I tend to hope that people are not horribly callous, awful beings. Just that they're a little slow and dont think things through, which can unfortunately lead to some horrible consequences.
|
|
|
|
12/05/2012 03:48:50 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
One thing that also plays into it is the fact that someone just pushed the man, and fear may also play into not taking action.
|
He mentions in the interview that he pressed himself up against the wall as the "pusher" went past him because he feared also being pushed.
I would like to think I would act heroically in a situation like that but I won't know unless it ever happens, and I hope it never does. But it's been shown time and time again that when extreme events happen people freeze or do what comes naturally to them while their brain tries to comprehend the situation. In this case I would think taking photos comes naturally to a photographer.
Did he do the best possible thing? Probably not, but in the heat of the moment I can't fault him. Now selling the pictures afterward... I'm not sure where I stand on that part.
Message edited by author 2012-12-05 15:49:11. |
|
|
|
12/05/2012 03:49:16 PM · #39 |
Where was this camera? was it in his backpack? was the lens cap on?
...he has the forethought and time to think and put in a plan to use the flash of his camera to try to stop a train- (even as the criminal is running by him) he calms himself enough to shoot well composed, leading lines and rule of thirds- based shots, from the hip or at least outstretched hand?
(with the small added serendipitous bonus of being able to sell those shots?!?!)
|
|
|
|
12/05/2012 03:55:57 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by blindjustice:
Where was this camera? was it in his backpack? was the lens cap on?
...he has the forethought and time to think and put in a plan to use the flash of his camera to try to stop a train- (even as the criminal is running by him) he calms himself enough to shoot well composed, leading lines and rule of thirds- based shots, from the hip or at least outstretched hand?
(with the small added serendipitous bonus of being able to sell those shots?!?!) |
He claims that he always leaves the camera on and lets it go to sleep mode. He also said that he didn't process them and just handed them over, so they could have been heavily cropped to get the composition. When he reviewed them with the police to identify the man you could barely see anything because they were so under exposed that they were practically black. That doesn't sound like a calm photographer to me. Then again most of this is his own testimony, so it's up to you if you believe it or not. |
|
|
|
12/05/2012 03:59:02 PM · #41 |
| It's so much more fun to speculate, project, and assume, than to wait for the facts to be ascertained and published ... |
|
|
|
12/05/2012 04:15:33 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
It's so much more fun to speculate, project, and assume, than to wait for the facts to be ascertained and published ... |
most of the judgments we make in life are based upon limited and filtered information, even in formal settings.
"Didn't process just handed them over" he wasn't curious to see if he had any pictures of anything juicy? Underexposed? he didn't chimp just a little bit after the accident?
Even giving the benefit of the doubt, watching the interviews, reading the articles- you think its too soon to call ethical, not legal, problems here?
Message edited by author 2012-12-05 16:15:54. |
|
|
|
12/05/2012 04:20:30 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by bhuge:
Originally posted by blindjustice:
Where was this camera? was it in his backpack? was the lens cap on?
...he has the forethought and time to think and put in a plan to use the flash of his camera to try to stop a train- (even as the criminal is running by him) he calms himself enough to shoot well composed, leading lines and rule of thirds- based shots, from the hip or at least outstretched hand?
(with the small added serendipitous bonus of being able to sell those shots?!?!) |
He claims that he always leaves the camera on and lets it go to sleep mode. |
Right. I've never known a newspaper staff photographer or stringer who DIDN'T keep his camera at the ready whenever it was in his possession. That's sort of "Street Photography 101". As for the "rule of thirds" shot and the "leading lines" example, those are both the same shot, cropped differently. I bet there's a lot more cropping of the original happening, at the newspaper, than even these two examples that happen to have been posted. |
|
|
|
12/05/2012 04:28:04 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by blindjustice:
...you think its too soon to call ethical, not legal, problems here? |
Probably ... I just think there will eventually be more factual information available, which may or may not cause revision of opinions formed now.
Since none of us (AFAIK) is actually connected with the case, anything said here is really just a game of fantasy football where we may not know the final score for weeks/months. |
|
|
|
12/05/2012 04:34:36 PM · #45 |
After my first reactions...Maybe he has seen it all like a war photographer, doesn't panic but immediately starts shooting. And if i look at the photo it seems like a position where 9 out of 10 men would get on the wall in 2 seconds especially with a rush of adrenalin. Meaning; maybe he expected the guy to climb up easily.
Message edited by author 2012-12-05 16:35:22. |
|
|
|
12/05/2012 04:49:07 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by HawkinsT:
The photographer demonstrated clear thought ... |
Funny, I thought you were arguing that what he did was insane or idiotic. In a state of panic or high-stress people are apt to do all sorts of things, not all of which appear rational or logical in retrospect. |
Not at all, I think if you have time to get your camera out and take several photos of the situation unfolding you have time to asses whether you can save the guy on the tracks. |
|
|
|
12/05/2012 05:46:34 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by bhuge:
Originally posted by blindjustice:
Where was this camera? was it in his backpack? was the lens cap on?
...he has the forethought and time to think and put in a plan to use the flash of his camera to try to stop a train- (even as the criminal is running by him) he calms himself enough to shoot well composed, leading lines and rule of thirds- based shots, from the hip or at least outstretched hand?
(with the small added serendipitous bonus of being able to sell those shots?!?!) |
He claims that he always leaves the camera on and lets it go to sleep mode. |
Right. I've never known a newspaper staff photographer or stringer who DIDN'T keep his camera at the ready whenever it was in his possession. |
I don't turn off my camera. When I think about it, I turn it off and on so it does a sensor cleaning, but I never turn it off. It's sitting in it's bag now, asleep.
|
|
|
|
12/05/2012 05:47:37 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by bhuge:
Originally posted by blindjustice:
Where was this camera? was it in his backpack? was the lens cap on?
...he has the forethought and time to think and put in a plan to use the flash of his camera to try to stop a train- (even as the criminal is running by him) he calms himself enough to shoot well composed, leading lines and rule of thirds- based shots, from the hip or at least outstretched hand?
(with the small added serendipitous bonus of being able to sell those shots?!?!) |
He claims that he always leaves the camera on and lets it go to sleep mode. |
Right. I've never known a newspaper staff photographer or stringer who DIDN'T keep his camera at the ready whenever it was in his possession. That's sort of "Street Photography 101". As for the "rule of thirds" shot and the "leading lines" example, those are both the same shot, cropped differently. I bet there's a lot more cropping of the original happening, at the newspaper, than even these two examples that happen to have been posted. |
Sure, I will concede that he would have the camera at the ready. I was wrong about that. Especially in NYC, in this day and age, I have had my camera in sleep mode walking around and I don't even get paid to do it...
Message edited by author 2012-12-05 19:39:49. |
|
|
|
12/05/2012 07:00:48 PM · #49 |
| i think the photographer was being truthful.. i think the ethics lay with the newspaper/media and its them who should be more responsible and in this day and age its them who need the kick in the butt most of the time... the photographer was acting on instinct and making that kind of split second judgement in a situation that is beyond their reach and others are frozen to do anything and are closer it is just a reaction we face in terrible situations... and its news that is just being made in order to have us talking about the issues of this rather than the problem of why the man did it in the first place and solving real issues in society, its all smoke and mirrors, afterall theyve stopped talking about why we are being told we cant photograph other things that are supposedly security sensative and keep us in our safe little boxes... theres no outcry about that, why because they want us debating things that are not relevant so we dont stand up to the manipulation of our rights under the guise of national security etc and talk about real issues... thats the truth of whats going on whether you like it or not... |
|
|
|
12/05/2012 07:34:56 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by MinsoPhoto:
Why did that photo need to be taken, what good will it do anyone besides sell papers? Why do people even want to look at those types of images? It isn't war photography, not riots, not anything that needed to be shown. The family of the man now gets to see him moments before death, alone plastered all over the Internet and media. Hindsight is 20/20 but if I am ever in that situation I hope my first instinct is not to start taking photos. |
What makes war photography more acceptable? They are both covering something tragic, and in many cases, the imminent death of the subject.
If you can't make a difference by helping out, help out by documenting the events. You may not find it tasteful, but you don't know what impact the pictures could have. |
|
Home -
Challenges -
Community -
League -
Photos -
Cameras -
Lenses -
Learn -
Help -
Terms of Use -
Privacy -
Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 07/27/2025 08:17:58 AM EDT.
